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Chairman speaks about DR


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#1 PooingDog

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:00 AM

http://www.hornetsru...le.php?id=10853


Memento mori

Who cares -Wins!!!

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AKA. Winston Smith

Give 'em a fair trial..........and then hang 'em"

#2 Lakeside

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:00 PM

A reply to DR that dos'nt really say alot. I dont think anyone's main issues are surrounding team selection. In a nut shell its about Hornets long term becoming St Rochdale Helens.


What sort of say do we actually get as I'm a member and all I get asked for is more money? As a member I would have voting against this link up.

Edited by Pugwash, 02 April 2013 - 07:05 PM.
Accusing the board of something you can't prove.


#3 fillipo del toro

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 06:09 AM

We have a link up with St Helens, we get an opportunity tib utilise some of there fringe players should IT see fit. Saints out of the goodness of there hearts allow us to use there facilities to train etc, etc and we are moaning?

But then again it wouldn't be Hornets if people Weren't moaning. We need to get out of this league and any help with facilities or pools of players we can access who I may add will be an asset to the team on game day must be looked at. The most Saints DRs we have had in games is 3. Not exactly taking over the team is it?
If Talbit doesn't perform I am sure he will be shown the door like the any other coach.
Phil Bull.

Hopefully my post are viewed as positive, and I cannot be held responsible for causing any offence to anyone associated with this message board

#4 Snoopy Loopy

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:25 PM

We have a link up with St Helens, we get an opportunity tib utilise some of there fringe players should IT see fit. Saints out of the goodness of there hearts allow us to use there facilities to train etc, etc and we are moaning?

But then again it wouldn't be Hornets if people Weren't moaning. We need to get out of this league and any help with facilities or pools of players we can access who I may add will be an asset to the team on game day must be looked at. The most Saints DRs we have had in games is 3. Not exactly taking over the team is it?
If Talbit doesn't perform I am sure he will be shown the door like the any other coach.


Im not so sure about that bit Fillipo at least not until the end of the season as he already had contract for this year with St Helens

#5 Anita Bath

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:30 PM

"But the main point is that if Hornets is run by the fans via a Co-op did the Hornets board seek a mandte for this link up?"

None of the responses address Lakeside's question.

#6 fillipo del toro

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:45 PM

"But the main point is that if Hornets is run by the fans via a Co-op did the Hornets board seek a mandte for this link up?"

None of the responses address Lakeside's question.


I cant answer that, as i choose not to be a member. I am sure a member privy to any meetings can advise
Phil Bull.

Hopefully my post are viewed as positive, and I cannot be held responsible for causing any offence to anyone associated with this message board

#7 AlwaysCru

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:46 PM


To me it doesn't sound like you've had any kind of ballot, you've just had it thrust upon you, which as fans I think is totally unacceptable. At the end of the day we are the ones who are the lifeblood of our clubs and its our identity which gets given away in these matters.

I read the statement from your Chairman and I don't think it did much to allay any fears it just said 'it's here, please stop criticising it!!'

What worries me is when he's talking about players being 'due to play' for Rochdale, like it's dictated down not chosen by the coach.

Seems to me the man in charge is saying it's good to have a proper debate about dual reg, but he didn't let that happen before signing you up for it which in a fans owned club is simply wrong.

We had the opportunity last year to discuss DR with the Cru board in a fans meeting and we told them we didn't need it and we didn't want it! Sounds like you didn't get he same opportunity....

I appreciate you've got a Chairman there saying give it time, but the more time you give in the more damage it does in my opinion.

I think Rochdale fans are being fed a line here and it's wrong.






#8 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:45 PM

"But the main point is that if Hornets is run by the fans via a Co-op did the Hornets board seek a mandte for this link up?"

None of the responses address Lakeside's question.

Not sure a Co-op asks it members to vote on every issue? The club would not function if it did. The Board get a mandate to run the club for a year.
With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#9 Lakeside

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:57 PM

Yep fair point BR, but as members what do we actually get to vote on... just who is on the board? If that is the case it was not sold like that in the Baum that night. Lets remember what Mr Wynn said that night about the old Hornets being run as a closed shop.

I find this set up far worse and run by far fewer people having a say, perhaps the people who took Hornets over were lacking the skills set required but please lets remember how this co-op was sold to us.

I for one feel really let down

#10 ColDale

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:30 AM

surely if the deal with Saints was that good, putting it to a fans vote would have just been asking for fans backing, and would have provided great PR that 90%+ fans backed the deal. As someone involved in a similar co-op, you give the fans the chance to vote on all major decisions, and if they trust you, they back you. And if it was in the best interests of Hornets, that would have been the only outcome of any vote.
Interfering bloke who supports Dale.

#11 Anita Bath

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 02:21 AM

"Not sure a Co-op asks it members to vote on every issue? The club would not function if it did. The Board get a mandate to run the club for a year".

Same as any other form of ownership then - input limited to voting for board members at AGM - then leave it to the board members.

#12 StarfireHypervixen

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 07:22 AM

"Not sure a Co-op asks it members to vote on every issue? The club would not function if it did. The Board get a mandate to run the club for a year".

Same as any other form of ownership then - input limited to voting for board members at AGM - then leave it to the board members.


If you look properly, at any co-op, and other places where the people are enfranchised, the ballot is used to elect a representative(s). The idea that a vote be held for every decision is without merit.

I would, had I been given a vote on it, rejected D.R. I don't like it. But the board made its decision, It should be trusted to have more integrity than to sell you out to Saints. If not, don't re-elect them.

The thing most certain is Hornets need promotion. If this is how they get it, what will the Nay-sayers moan about next, because I guarantee they'll find something.

Edited by StarfireHypervixen, 23 March 2013 - 07:40 AM.

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#13 fillipo del toro

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 03:18 PM

If you look properly, at any co-op, and other places where the people are enfranchised, the ballot is used to elect a representative(s). The idea that a vote be held for every decision is without merit.

I would, had I been given a vote on it, rejected D.R. I don't like it. But the board made its decision, It should be trusted to have more integrity than to sell you out to Saints. If not, don't re-elect them.

The thing most certain is Hornets need promotion. If this is how they get it, what will the Nay-sayers moan about next, because I guarantee they'll find something.


Oh they'll moan, believe me they'll find something
Phil Bull.

Hopefully my post are viewed as positive, and I cannot be held responsible for causing any offence to anyone associated with this message board

#14 AlwaysCru

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 10:22 PM


Whether a cooperative or not the board is given a mandate by its fans because they are ulitmately the customers... Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the people running the Hornets are the wrong people or even that this is the wrong decision, what i am saying is that I'm staggered that as a fans owned club you didn't have a direct input into what is undoubtedly the biggest decision since you set up as a co-op!

You've got rid of your coach in Stankevitch, installed a Coach who is 'co-incidentally' a full time employee for St Helen's, moved all your training to St Helens training ground, signed a host of ex Saints academy players to Rochdales books, got staff on the day wearing St Helen's branded clothing and then playing whoever Nathan Brown sees fit on match day!!!

And all of this without any kind of vote or discussion on whether its the right thing!!!

Who pays Ian Talbot? Does he get a realistic salary from Rochdale or a token few grand so he can go down as on the books? Who gets the say on which SL players come in and out?

Please, guys - see this for what is..... The whole DR situation is a debacle but the biggest risks here are Hornets and Swinton who are so no engrained with their SL counterparts there is a real real danger that there will be very little left when SL pull out. Training at their grounds, coached by their staff.... A risky situation...

I find it ironic I watched boots and all and the Saints Academy manager says as a club they don't want DR! They want to go back to the way it was. If I was involved with Hornets or Swinton as a fan, I'd be forcing the board to take back the reigns ASAP !!



#15 PooingDog

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 09:41 AM

Oh they'll moan, believe me they'll find something


Too true fillipo, they're already moaning and they're not even Hornets fans. :o

Edited by PooingDog, 24 March 2013 - 09:41 AM.

Memento mori

Who cares -Wins!!!

Carpe Cerevisi

AKA. Winston Smith

Give 'em a fair trial..........and then hang 'em"

#16 AlwaysCru

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

Too true fillipo, they're already moaning and they're not even Hornets fans. :o


Guys, it's your club (well, at least it used to be :P)





#17 PooingDog

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:40 PM

Guys, it's your club (well, at least it used to be :P)


Unless you're a shareholder in the Crusaders then your club isn't yours mate in anyway shape or form, did you vote for a move away from South Wales to Wrexham?
If as and when we decide that the board need removing then that's what we'll do, what will you do?
Just a question but before you were AlwaysCru what were you, I mean unless you're under 10 years old (and i could believe that you may be) you must have been something else before?

Edited by PooingDog, 24 March 2013 - 02:43 PM.

Memento mori

Who cares -Wins!!!

Carpe Cerevisi

AKA. Winston Smith

Give 'em a fair trial..........and then hang 'em"

#18 Lakeside

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

Unfortunately I for one was guilty of thinking the grass would be greener on the other side, but it is not. Promises that were made have not been converted. Infact I know less now as a member than I did as a shareholder.

#19 AlwaysCru

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:37 PM

Unless you're a shareholder in the Crusaders then your club isn't yours mate in anyway shape or form, did you vote for a move away from South Wales to Wrexham?
If as and when we decide that the board need removing then that's what we'll do, what will you do?
Just a question but before you were AlwaysCru what were you, I mean unless you're under 10 years old (and i could believe that you may be) you must have been something else before?


Now now, Don't get defensive!!

If you are more in control of your club than we are of ours, why did we have an open debate about Dual Reg and you didn't? All I'm urging you to do is discuss it and ask the questions. If you then decide that St Helens is the way you want to go then hey ho, up to you!

You mock the existence of Celtic Crusaders against me as if this is supposed to embarrass me into submission, but it is PRECISELY
this experience that leads me to comment on Dual Reg negatively. Artificially chasing success, the "we have to get out of this league at all costs" approach leads to misery.

You have to enjoy the game for what it is and that's the best team sport going! (IMO) You have to enjoy the fact that you've got a bunch of lads giving everything for the shirt, yet getting up for work the next day. Honest boys who train part time and give an unbelievable commitment for very little reward (comparatively).

My user name is AlwaysCru because I will always support Cru for who they are now. Wasn't a fan of the SuperLeague team, packed full of Aussies, no local identity... At least now you see the players in Tesco and feel part of the club.

You have to accept at Hornets a decision has been taken to artificially chase glory by giving the club over to St Helen's. I think as Celtic Crusaders Super League is a lesson to all, artificially chasing glory is a recipe for disaster.

The only reason I posted on this topic was to encourage Hornets fans that you can love the game and compete for honours without needing to give the reigns to a Super League club - and worst of all do it without consulting the fans.

Without which the club is nothing.







I just feel (pretty strongly)








#20 fillipo del toro

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:55 AM

Now now, Don't get defensive!!

If you are more in control of your club than we are of ours, why did we have an open debate about Dual Reg and you didn't? All I'm urging you to do is discuss it and ask the questions. If you then decide that St Helens is the way you want to go then hey ho, up to you!

You mock the existence of Celtic Crusaders against me as if this is supposed to embarrass me into submission, but it is PRECISELY
this experience that leads me to comment on Dual Reg negatively. Artificially chasing success, the "we have to get out of this league at all costs" approach leads to misery.

You have to enjoy the game for what it is and that's the best team sport going! (IMO) You have to enjoy the fact that you've got a bunch of lads giving everything for the shirt, yet getting up for work the next day. Honest boys who train part time and give an unbelievable commitment for very little reward (comparatively).

My user name is AlwaysCru because I will always support Cru for who they are now. Wasn't a fan of the SuperLeague team, packed full of Aussies, no local identity... At least now you see the players in Tesco and feel part of the club.

You have to accept at Hornets a decision has been taken to artificially chase glory by giving the club over to St Helen's. I think as Celtic Crusaders Super League is a lesson to all, artificially chasing glory is a recipe for disaster.

The only reason I posted on this topic was to encourage Hornets fans that you can love the game and compete for honours without needing to give the reigns to a Super League club - and worst of all do it without consulting the fans.

Without which the club is nothing.







I just feel (pretty strongly)



Urinating in the wind trying to get it across to this guy. If he thinks the clubs run by St Helens RLFC let him do that. I think this is a case of someone getting a small amount of information and now hes expert.
I was cornered by 3 BIFFOS at Whitebank who came out with some belting stories they had privy to. In the end i walked away from there excited mouth foaming about how Hornets where going to fill the team with 17 Saints players at the end of the season IF we arent doing well to get us promotion. Its laughable, even the Cru coach calls us Saints A Team, yeah all 2 or DR3 saints players in the squad of the last 3 games! What chance have you got?
I even talk to an ex Hornet who was offered reduced terms at Spotland last season (probably to offer him the door) who is convinced this was done so they could get a Saints player in, well its odd because the lad who gets his shirt isnt DR (Shock)!
I also understand that this particular player is on borrowed time at his current club as he has not been living upto the billing he surrounds himself with.

I hope this is my final point on the matter, although the ignorance of certain people never fails to astound me. Go on our clubs official website and look at the playing squad. Read Legaue Express everyweek and see how many DRs we actually put in? 2 or 3 not a full 17 like its protrayed.

We are at Whitebank on Friday, i cant wait for the golden nuggetts that the BIFFS come out with then? Hornets have weapons of mass destruction under the pitch, Hornets will be leaving Spotland next season to play there homes matches in ST Helens twin town of Stuttgart Germany because thats what Nathan Brown and the RFL want to expand the game in Germany.
And finally, there is no meat in the Hornets pies, its actually ground up bones of old Saints players (Maybe not)
Phil Bull.

Hopefully my post are viewed as positive, and I cannot be held responsible for causing any offence to anyone associated with this message board