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29/03/13 - Wigan Warriors v St Helens - KO 12.15pm


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146 replies to this topic

Poll: Who will win? (16 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Voted Wigan Warriors (11 votes [68.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 68.75%

  2. St Helens (5 votes [31.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.25%

  3. Draw (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#21 RidingPie

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

Wigan squad: Greg Burke, Josh Charnley, Dom Crosby, Liam Farrell, Ben Flower, Darrell Goulding, Blake Green, Jack Hughes, Rhodri Lloyd, Michael McIlorum, Sean O'Loughlin, Pat Richards, Tom Spencer, Matty Smith, Scott Taylor, Iain Thornley, Logan Tomkins, Sam Tomkins, Chris Tuson.


hrm I thought Luaki might be back for this one. Whilst I don't rate him massively he would have added a bit of size and experience.

I think this might be one match too far for the wigan youngsters with such a lightweight and inexperienced pack. At least O'loughlin is playing. Thats a very young pack.

#22 hindle xiii

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:53 PM

hrm I thought Luaki might be back for this one. Whilst I don't rate him massively he would have added a bit of size and experience.

I think this might be one match too far for the wigan youngsters with such a lightweight and inexperienced pack. At least O'loughlin is playing. Thats a very young pack.

Spirit of 2002 (2003?) and all that.

Stevo has already bought the Tissot.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#23 RidingPie

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

We can only hope! :)

But if that does happen then I hope we keep a greater percentage of these players than we did those! I guess I'm more confident about that now!

#24 Saintslass

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

Well it is obvious we don't have a similar system. We are able to produce good young players but lack the most important part of the Wigan model and that is the ability to bring those players through into the first team and ensure they develop through good coaching and 'faith' in their abilities to do the business.

Well, that's what I said! ;) But just because either our recruitment to the first team is wrong (the Board?) or our coaches aren't good enough to incorporate the youth into the first team doesn't mean our youth development system is wrong. It means the club's attitude to the first team is wrong.

#25 RidingPie

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:47 PM

Well, that's what I said! ;) But just because either our recruitment to the first team is wrong (the Board?) or our coaches aren't good enough to incorporate the youth into the first team doesn't mean our youth development system is wrong. It means the club's attitude to the first team is wrong.


Do you think Brown is going to help improve this? I haven't seen Saints enough this year to know.

I know when Lenegan took Maguire on, his remit was to bring Wigan youth through, I would hope Macmanus (not sure on spelling sorry) might have done the same.

#26 hindle xiii

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:06 PM

St Helens squad: Paul Wellens, Ade Gardner, Jordan Turner, Sia Soliola, Francis Meli, Josh Perry, Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook, Jon Wilkin, Willie Manu, Anthony Laffranchi, Mark Flanagan, Paul Clough, Josh Jones, Tom Makinson, Nathan Ashe, Alex Walmsley, Anthony Walker, Mark Percival, Lewis Charnock.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#27 Saintslass

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:59 PM

Do you think Brown is going to help improve this? I haven't seen Saints enough this year to know.

No more or less than any other coach has done. For example, Simmons did heaps for our youth development because we were hit by a major injury crisis and so played all our under 20s at some point (against Hudds away we had more under 20s in the starting 17 than senior players). But had we not had those injuries it is likely that Saints would have played the same bunch of senior players over and over again just as we did in fact when Mike Rush was in temporary charge last season, and Mike Rush is the person who set up the youth development system at Saints in the first place! Now we have another set of injuries, to key players again, and so our young players are getting a chance to have a go but if we hadn't had those injuries I doubt very much those young players would have been played. Saints don't appear to believe in phasing in young players; they just throw them in when injuries arise, which is a very out of date approach IMO and does us no good in the long term.

#28 RidingPie

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:14 PM

Well hopefully that will change Saintslass, maybe MacManus would be willing to encourage a coach to do that (whilst still allowing them a free hand on team selection obviously). The more clubs realise that a year or two's more patience can generate a superleague standard player (and maybe a few higher) the better. Take Goulding for us, how many Wiganers though he wasn't good enough 2 or 3 years ago. Whilst he'll never be Renouf, Miles or even Carmont he's certainly a decent player. (Sorry I know I'm preaching to the choir I've just seen too many juniors get away from our system and for the good of the game hate it happening anywhere)

#29 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:03 AM

Wigan, by 14.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#30 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 11:34 AM

I cannot comment in detail on Saints' system, but what Wigan did was instigate a consistent approach to training and playing across the teams a fair few years ago, and this means that it is much easier for players to slot in. Another point worth making is that we are not giving debuts to that many young players at the same time. We have drip fed them into the team. You could even argue we have held back a player like Burke whom many thought was ready last year. He is certainly ready now. Finally, we have adapted our style of play to negate the size issue somewhat. Fast ptbs rather than ground gained when we have the ball, and using the kicking game to ensure so far as possible the opposition is starting their stes much further downfield than in the last 10 years.
Did I miss Lomax's name, or is Brown playing a joke?

#31 MrFussy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 12:42 PM

Stuart Howarth has arrived at Saints on loan from Salford (with Gaskell going the other way) and will apparently be in the squad for tomorrow's game. This seems like a rather strange development.

Edited by MrFussy, 28 March 2013 - 12:44 PM.


#32 Saint Toppy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:01 PM

Stuart Howarth has arrived at Saints on loan from Salford (with Gaskell going the other way) and will apparently be in the squad for tomorrow's game. This seems like a rather strange development.

With Roby out for a few months and Hohia also still injured its a good move to bring in another hooker with 1st team experience.
Saints wont miss Gaskell

#33 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

Is Howarth a hooker? He played 13 at Wigan.

#34 hindle xiii

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 01:14 PM

Might as well have signed Stevo.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#35 Saintslass

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

With Roby out for a few months and Hohia also still injured its a good move to bring in another hooker with 1st team experience.
Saints wont miss Gaskell

Saints are already missing Gaskell. You might have noticed that we don't actually have a 6 for our derby game against Wigan.

#36 Saintslass

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:28 PM

Is Howarth a hooker? He played 13 at Wigan.

I guess we will find out on Friday. Lucky us.

#37 MrFussy

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:40 PM

With Roby out for a few months and Hohia also still injured its a good move to bring in another hooker with 1st team experience.
Saints wont miss Gaskell

But are we really so short of cover that we need to bring in a player who seems to have struggled to get a game at Salford this year? It would've been nice if one of the guys in our system could've stepped up. Without wanting to be disrespectful this feels like a pretty underwhelming signing.

Admittedly I know very little about him so perhaps someone who's seen him play regularly could offer a more informed opinion?

Edited by MrFussy, 28 March 2013 - 03:40 PM.


#38 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

Howarth is a good player and a good man. He is super fit and committed, and an "intelligent" player. What he lacks is size and speed. Without meaning to be critical, in Flannagan and Wilkin Saints already have enough "versatile" clever players of his ilk.

#39 Saintslass

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

What he lacks is size and speed.

Should fit into Saints' squad straight away then! :)

#40 Griff9of13

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:02 AM

Just read on Twitter that Saints have named Wellens and Wilkin at 6 and 7. :o

Not sure if it's true yet though, But with Brown coaching, you never know.
"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."




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