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If you don't pay the full cap you can't be in SL.


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#41 Pottsy

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:19 PM

There's a world of difference between being able to prove that you are capable of spending the full cap and being forced to do so.

#42 Viking Warrior

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:23 PM

He's hardly pontificating,he's simply throwing a subject for discussion into the forum.


i know i was just doing a bit of fishing..... he has raised a really valid point, we need to raise the level of the competition and by making clubs spend up to the cap will ensure that all our super league clubs can complete on a more even playing field,......just as long as they don't get too tempted to spend money they don't have.
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#43 Bulliac

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 02:30 PM

There's a world of difference between being able to prove that you are capable of spending the full cap and being forced to do so.

That is very true, though the thread, and indeed the programme last night, were based on the idea of clubs having to spend the cap.

To be fair, every club we have now could point ot an income of well above £1.8m and therefore be theoretically 'capable' of spending the cap. Without the compulsion it's a pointless distinction though, imo.
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#44 Pottsy

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:01 PM

That is very true, though the thread, and indeed the programme last night, were based on the idea of clubs having to spend the cap.

To be fair, every club we have now could point ot an income of well above £1.8m and therefore be theoretically 'capable' of spending the cap. Without the compulsion it's a pointless distinction though, imo.


There's also a world of difference between turnover and balance

#45 RidingPie

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

Wasn't the cap brought in originally to actually prevent all that?


Personally I think that is one of the problems. No one really knows what the cap is there for. There is lots of speculation but that's it. Without that key point we can't measure the success or failure of it.

Some say it was brought in to:
  • Create a more level playing field
  • Stop clubs going bust
  • Make clubs more reliant on juniors
  • Force clubs to spend more on infrastructure (which I think is the one you were opting for)
If its any of the first 3 its failed completely. Since the junior levels have now been trashed by the RFL that's a big step towards the last one going down the river as well.

#46 Derwent

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

It won't work. It's as simple as that (to quote Stevo).

If we use the current cap as the 'must pay' figure, then probably only half a dozen clubs could pay that amount on player wages without it impacting strongly on other areas of their businesses. This would mean many clubs forced to pay the higher amount would have less to spend on junior development, less on updating grounds, less on 'back office' activity, less on coaching staff etc. Wasn't the cap brought in originally to actually prevent all that?

Neither does a Super League with only six clubs sound particularly exciting.


Not if you reduce the number of clubs and redistribute the funding accordingly.......

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#47 Father Ted

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:10 PM

There was only one reason the salary cap was brought in and that was to stop clubs going bust.
All the other stated reasons are add ons.
As has been discussed, if the salary cap has to be met it can only happen it we have sufficient quality players to justify paying that kind of money.
What we need is a structure to benefit clubs who bring through their own players.
One thing that was mentioned by Rod Studd on Back Chat some weeks ago was a "Player Ratings" system which he outlined and few on the show understood. It is that sort of system we need so that clubs who provide their own players benefit and those who don't are limited on the number of players brought into their club.
The sooner the RFL/SL bring in a Player Ratings system the better off Rugby League will be.

#48 Mumby Magic

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:19 PM

Licensing was introduced for one to stop clubs spending silly as they wouldn't be relegated so they wouldn't panic buy. It's not happened. Clubs that can't afford it are trying to spend the cap (that they can't afford) to compete.

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#49 hindle xiii

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:27 PM

One thing that was mentioned by Rod Studd on Back Chat some weeks ago was a "Player Ratings" system which he outlined and few on the show understood. It is that sort of system we need so that clubs who provide their own players benefit and those who don't are limited on the number of players brought into their club.
The sooner the RFL/SL bring in a Player Ratings system the better off Rugby League will be.

It was either last season or programme one of this year, because I remember watching it. However, while I can't remember the gist of it now I remember thinking there were so many holes blown in it that it was just another daft idea by Rod Studd.

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#50 Matt J

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:04 PM

It doesn't make sense, if you can build a competitive squad for £800k, then you should be applauded not forced out of the league.

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#51 The Parksider

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:39 PM

Steve McNamara was on Radio Manchesters Thursday night show last week, well worth a listen if its still on iplayer.

Whilst he was discussing player numbers in relation to Duel Registration and having player of a sufficient calibre to call them "Semi Professional" the points he made are probably just as applicable here. I stand to be corrected but I'm sure he quoted participation numbers of approximatley 2500 at U14 level across the country


Yes I picked that stat up and I feel it is most important.

I suspect it sounds low because it may be the number of kids who play regularly and are serious about the game rather than the number of kids who fleetingly come and go at schools etc. a number pumped up to attract sport England money.

I seriously believe that the numbers are depressingly low. When my lad went on a local soccer camp there must have been sixty kids who were organised into teams and played loads of mini matches. When he went on the Rhinos camp it was more girls doing cheerleading and there weren't enough boys to play mini tournaments so they just did "skills".

But this doesn't stop people on here talking about 20 professional clubs etc etc etc as though RL players grow on trees.

Edited by The Parksider, 27 March 2013 - 08:40 PM.


#52 The Parksider

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

oh the irony a barrow fan pontificating about the salary cap...........................


Why the irony?

It wasn't BRK who was breaking any salary caps.

I'm sure he wasn't on the board with Des.

#53 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:46 PM

Yes I picked that stat up and I feel it is most important.

I suspect it sounds low because it may be the number of kids who play regularly and are serious about the game rather than the number of kids who fleetingly come and go at schools etc. a number pumped up to attract sport England money.

I seriously believe that the numbers are depressingly low. When my lad went on a local soccer camp there must have been sixty kids who were organised into teams and played loads of mini matches. When he went on the Rhinos camp it was more girls doing cheerleading and there weren't enough boys to play mini tournaments so they just did "skills".

But this doesn't stop people on here talking about 20 professional clubs etc etc etc as though RL players grow on trees.

He went on the wrong one then,my youngest goes on skills camps every year and the y have always had enough numbers for games.
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#54 Padge

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

I seriously believe that the numbers are depressingly low. When my lad went on a local soccer camp there must have been sixty kids who were organised into teams and played loads of mini matches. When he went on the Rhinos camp it was more girls doing cheerleading and there weren't enough boys to play mini tournaments so they just did "skills".


The Wigan Summer camps last year attracted 250 kids and since it was a sell out they repeated it in October for those that missed out.

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#55 Northern Sol

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:52 PM

London - one would assume - would have a great chance of finding their Dr Koukash figure. Cas are clearly a different story. It brings us back to the age old debate about demographics and the geographical spread of the league. But I wouldn't envisage a shortage of takers to invest in London post-Hughes. The rewards are plain to see.


Broncos have been trading on potential for almost their entire existence. You must be one of the few who believe that they can ever achieve it. Remember how long it took them to replace Lenaghan. People simply aren't queuing up to pour their cash into a bottomless pit.

#56 The Parksider

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:55 PM

I think Castleford would go. They would be the obvious favourites. No money, no further forward with stadium development, a club treading water really.

Rightly or wrongly, I think London will go too unless someone comes forward to replace Hughes - they simply can't survive without the kind of financial input he puts in. If its true that he's quitting next year then its difflcult to see how they can carry on in SL without him or someone of his ilk. That's the harsh reality.

I'm not saying they'd be my personal choices to go, just that if you were losing 2 clubs then they'd be the obvious candidates as things stand at the moment.

Where that leaves the likes of Fev is another matter altogether........


Thanks for your thoughts.....

London and Cas eh? We will see.......

A reduced SL wipes out the "one CC club will admitted to SL" promise because it applies if SL stays at 14.

But Fev fans don't despair, if Nahaboo offers full salary cap spend and more then Fev can claim a place over HKR if they continue to underspend.

London - central funding??

If not Toulouse to create an anglo french comp?

Fascinating subject the make up of SL 2015....

#57 thundergaz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:56 PM

Broncos have been trading on potential for almost their entire existence. You must be one of the few who believe that they can ever achieve it. Remember how long it took them to replace Lenaghan. People simply aren't queuing up to pour their cash into a bottomless pit.


You are bang on the money. People of London don't want league they want union they have made that obvious ever since the broncos have been in exsistence. No rich money man will plow millions into a club with no fans. Business men arnt rich for no reason and its definitely not for being daft and throwing money at a dying business.

#58 thundergaz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

Thanks for your thoughts.....

London and Cas eh? We will see.......

A reduced SL wipes out the "one CC club will admitted to SL" promise because it applies if SL stays at 14.

But Fev fans don't despair, if Nahaboo offers full salary cap spend and more then Fev can claim a place over HKR if they continue to underspend.

London - central funding??

If not Toulouse to create an anglo french comp?

Fascinating subject the make up of SL 2015....


Like you say parky who knows what will happen but I'm putting my money on it still being the 14. Just because I don't think enough teams could fund a SL2 especially if the salary cap is a mil. Which IMO it as to be if there is P&R between the two leagues as the yo yo effect will come back.

#59 The Parksider

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

He went on the wrong one then,my youngest goes on skills camps every year and the y have always had enough numbers for games.


We did a summer camp about 5 years ago and it was held at Ralph Thoresby School where the Broughtons went.

Yes he may have gone to the wrong one.

I do think participation is low because many of the soccer kids went back to their junior clubs, yet there are no junior clubs in north west leeds for RL.

But absolute fair play to Leeds who have announced "Leeds Underdogs" junior ARLFC.

#60 The Parksider

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:01 PM

The Wigan Summer camps last year attracted 250 kids and since it was a sell out they repeated it in October for those that missed out.


That's Wigan for you!!

Thank you very much for your reply, my follow up is a reply to TWIG.

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