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01/04/13 - Hull Kingston Rovers v Wigan Warriors - KO 3pm


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189 replies to this topic

Poll: Who will win? (10 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Hull Kingston Rovers (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Wigan Warriors (9 votes [90.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.00%

  3. Draw (1 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

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#41 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:46 PM

Sandercock will use that scoreline to try and prove his too many games at easter rant,apart from the fact that 14 of the wigan 17 played on Friday.
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#42 giwildgo

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:54 PM

An embarrassment for the league and it is ironic it comes as Wood is talking about this year as being the most competitive yet. I can sympathise with Wood's stance but I called this kind of score in the off-season as the better sides like Wigan reloaded at will from the little boys' small elite crop. We reap what we sow.

Glad I didn't go is all I can say.

FFS, it isn't embarrassing for SL that a side of Wigan's quality grace it. HKR just need to get better to be able to compete twice over the Easter period. We've seen similar failings today from Wakefield and Widnes after good performances on Friday.

Wigan didn't force HKR to sell Green and Taylor, and didn't cause the injuries to the current squad. We have the salary cap, what more do you want to handcuff the bigger clubs? Maybe it's time to look at how HKR need to get better rather than identifying a scapegoat. When overseas recruits are getting sparser it is inevitable that the better domestic players will be in demand, nevertheless Wigan can hardly be accused of 'reloading at will' at the expense of small clubs when the majority of the squad are home grown and ex-Wigan produced players are scattered throughout SL.

#43 Old Frightful

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

:D

Bog off, I'm still grumpy.

          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#44 shun

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

FFS, it isn't embarrassing for SL that a side of Wigan's quality grace it. HKR just need to get better to be able to compete twice over the Easter period. We've seen similar failings today from Wakefield and Widnes after good performances on Friday.

Wigan didn't force HKR to sell Green and Taylor, and didn't cause the injuries to the current squad. We have the salary cap, what more do you want to handcuff the bigger clubs? Maybe it's time to look at how HKR need to get better rather than identifying a scapegoat. When overseas recruits are getting sparser it is inevitable that the better domestic players will be in demand, nevertheless Wigan can hardly be accused of 'reloading at will' at the expense of small clubs when the majority of the squad are home grown and ex-Wigan produced players are scattered throughout SL.

+1

#45 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:56 PM

Sandercock will use that scoreline to try and prove his too many games at easter rant,apart from the fact that 14 of the wigan 17 played on Friday.


To be honest, I'd be surprised if he does. He's a bit erratic but generally quite honest. I suspect he'll talk about the lack of depth in our squad (and all SL sides save the big 4 or 5), which is nearer the point. With all of our strike players (eg Dobson, Paterson, Welham, Eden, maybe a couple of others) we're within 10-16 points of a full-strength Wigan (who of course are missing a few today also) and with a slim chance of nicking it with the rub of the green. But take a few of the top boys out of either side (we're only missing maybe 3 or 4 calibre players, I guess they are too) and the gap widens considerably. Their nos 17-22 are capable, ours are basically - with respect to them - SL runts.

I held out little hope for today when I heard our team but really it just shows the folly of allowing sides of Wigan's already impressive nature to reload with the likes of Smith, Green and Taylor in the off-season. Add to this the consistency of their line-up and the little lads' ever-changing ones and results like we've seen today are inevitable when squad reshuffling comes to the fore. It's ultimately not Sandercock's fault he has a squad of about 15 SL-calibre players to Wigan's 25.

Let's face facts, SL is at best reasonably competitive and we need the occasional shielding of the little lads' 2nd units from the big lads for it to scrub up at times. Inevitably that can't always happen and we will see more results like this until we curb the acquisition power of sides like Wigan.

#46 Red Willow

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

I made the comment that it seems significant that the teams that have depth in the squads have all managed big wins today. It is only a worry if this score marks a decline for the rest of the season

#47 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

what more do you want to handcuff the bigger clubs?


Trades to replace transfer fees to prevent success from breeding success and failure from breeding failure.

Wigan are a fine side and I'm not in any way bitter but they have the easiest job in the world of recruiting. I simply want to see better games. The kind of better games Nigel Wood told me on Sky Sports text today that I'm supposed to be regularly seeing.

#48 Mistress_Marlowe

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:03 PM

What is stopping HKR getting their act together at youth level, and therefore having a stronger overall squad? Are the big teams sabotaging that as well?


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#49 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:05 PM

It's interesting also that today is Scott Taylor's first SL start for Wigan, against the club for which he shone last season. It's just a rotten state of affairs on so many levels. A fine player restricted to minor minutes rolling over the team who both developed him and could better use him to create a contest worthy of viewing. There's so many lessons for SL to learn for allowing him to move up the hierarchy so easily and such moves are reproduced all over our league. Until we curb that we'll always have 2 tiers in SL and blowout scores like today when the 2 worlds collide in the most unfavourable climate.

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 01 April 2013 - 04:07 PM.


#50 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:11 PM

The majority of Wigan's players came through their youth system, so to accuse them of buying up the best players of other teams is just ridiculous.


But they have bought up the best players of other teams, this isn't in doubt. That they bring so many good players through their own system is all the more reason to not allow them to do so.

Do we want a competitive league or do we want Leeds vs Wigan in the GF for the next 5 years?

#51 my missus

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:15 PM

no excuses kr have been a disgrace and sandercockup is to blame he has talked the team out of any chance they had of making a game of it, wigan are playing with a patched up side sandercock should hav used that to inspire is team.

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#52 Just Browny

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

I'm not a Wigan fan


You certainly used to be.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#53 gingerjon

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:28 PM

I made the comment that it seems significant that the teams that have depth in the squads have all managed big wins today.

I'll sound like lobby but it always seems to me that that's how it works every year.
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#54 giwildgo

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

Trades to replace transfer fees to prevent success from breeding success and failure from breeding failure.

Wigan are a fine side and I'm not in any way bitter but they have the easiest job in the world of recruiting. I simply want to see better games. The kind of better games Nigel Wood told me on Sky Sports text today that I'm supposed to be regularly seeing.

How would that work in the current system? Would clubs not suffer from loss of transfer revenue (Green, Taylor and Smith all commanded fees agreed between the clubs)?

I like trades where they are workable, but they are only really suited to the circumstances of American Sports such as the college system of player development, revenue sharing by franchised clubs and associated drafts to professional sport. Such a set of unique circumstances cannot realistically be replicated for RL, so there is no foundation for a trade system.

The simple answer to today's result is not to overreact to a scoreline that is heavily influenced by the Easter short turnaround, injuries and respective depths of quality squad players. HKR just need to get better at producing and retaining home grown players to ensure sufficient squad depth, but by their own methods rather the assistance by rule making. Sport is intended to be based upon competition that provides rewards to the efforts of successful competitors, the salary cap already skews the playing field to benefit smaller clubs, but if they still can't compete then it is an issue with the club itself. The solution isn't to make more rules to pander to the weak, but for those clubs to strive to get better.

#55 JohnM

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:33 PM

But they have bought up the best players of other teams, this isn't in doubt. That they bring so many good players through their own system is all the more reason to not allow them to do so.

Do we want a competitive league or do we want Leeds vs Wigan in the GF for the next 5 years?



I for one certainly don't wan't social engineering of the sort you seem to be proposing. One possible outcome from stopping good players from bettering themselves would be to see them lost to the game altogether. Another would be to see young players not joining less successful teams in the first place.

Each game is competitive, each club is competitive, the whole sport is competitive. HKR just need to compete. Shackling a whole sport like this is NOT the way forward. Might as well give the lower teams a five try start

Edited by JohnM, 01 April 2013 - 04:36 PM.


#56 giwildgo

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:42 PM

But they have bought up the best players of other teams, this isn't in doubt. That they bring so many good players through their own system is all the more reason to not allow them to do so.

Do we want a competitive league or do we want Leeds vs Wigan in the GF for the next 5 years?

If a club has needs in certain positions, do they not have the right to make an approach? HKR and Salford didn't have to sell. Did HKR produce Dobson, Burns, Green, Patterson, Mika, D. Hodgson, Hall? Player movement benefits all clubs, would such a restriction apply to all clubs or do you just want double standards to suit your club?

It seems a perverse suggestion that the likes of Wigan and Leeds could be punished for excellent youth development, whilst lesser clubs are allowed to do as they please because they invest less in youth development and consequently produce less quality home grown players. If HKR can't cope under the current system in SL without special assistance to restrain the big boys, maybe the problem lies with them?

#57 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:44 PM

What is stopping HKR getting their act together at youth level, and therefore having a stronger overall squad? Are the big teams sabotaging that as well?


In recent seasons we've had some very fine youth sides, this only a few years after being semi-pro and in the RL wilderness. We're doing our best on that front and without the 30 or 40 years of continuous on-field success that the likes of Wigan bear the fruits of in terms of young player participation. The problem is that as long as the likes of Taylor and Green (an import but the point still stands) are picked off at will by bigger sides, any production line can realistically only move players in the same direction. Why would the next Scott Taylor stay at HKR?

What it boils down to, ultimately, is whether Wood and the RFL have the bottle to back up statements like today's with genuine action. All SL sides are capable of producing young talent given a level playing field. It's not rocket science. As long as there are hierarchies these will inevitable trickle down into said systems. A youth system can't buck the trend of shedding elite established pros.

I wasn't really drawn to the forum by this result - naturally RL is the last thing I want to talk about right now as a HKR fan! :) - more by the irony of it and a couple of other results as regarding the timing of Wood's "Most competitive SL ever" press release. I suspect he feels a bit daft right now, for sure.

#58 Red Willow

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:47 PM

But Salford and HKR did have to sell, both had money problems. Salford had the choice of selling Smith with 8 games or get nothing 2 months later. I can't believe you are that naïve. Sport is a business whether we like it or not.

Teams like Wigan will always be first choice for youngsters such as Hansen.

#59 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:48 PM

I for one certainly don't wan't social engineering of the sort you seem to be proposing. One possible outcome from stopping good players from bettering themselves would be to see them lost to the game altogether. Another would be to see young players not joining less successful teams in the first place.

Each game is competitive, each club is competitive, the whole sport is competitive. HKR just need to compete. Shackling a whole sport like this is NOT the way forward. Might as well give the lower teams a five try start


So how does Taylor get better playing 30 mins a game at Wigan as opposed to 60+ at HKR? Hoist by your own petard. EPL shoots itself in the foot by allowing box office players to pack benches at elite sides, whereas in NRL the best sharpen their skills against each other every week.

By spreading maybe 20 calibre squad players across the 5 or 6 worst SL sides we would undoubtedly see better games and at the same time improve the standard of everyone pulling on a shirt every weekend. No-one gets better by playing less, or alongside better players than are on the opposing side.

#60 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:52 PM

If he was at HKR, no doubt today he would have played the whole game, and had the cleaners put through him like the rest of them.


On what basis? He was our best forward last year. We've replaced him with Paterson but I want to see them paired up in the back row. Wigan have no right to him.

Let me put it another way, because people are inevitably reading sour grapes into this.

Imagine I am neutral. Tell me why I should go to see the likes of Hull KR play Wigan and pay 23 quid for the pleasure. Ignore today's result if you want. Sell it to me in more general terms. Sell me Leeds vs Widnes. I'm wrong that there is anything dysfunctional about SL so this should be easy for you, right?

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 01 April 2013 - 04:53 PM.