Jump to content


RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD MAGAZINE (ISSUE 397 - MAY 2014): Available to download now. Get the app from Apple Newsstand or GooglePlay, or click here to read it online now at Pocketmags.com - Print edition in shops from Friday, or click here to get it delivered by post in the UK or worldwide.

Rugby League World - April 2014
League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

01/04/13 - Hull Kingston Rovers v Wigan Warriors - KO 3pm


  • Please log in to reply
189 replies to this topic

Poll: Who will win? (10 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will win?

  1. Hull Kingston Rovers (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Wigan Warriors (9 votes [90.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 90.00%

  3. Draw (1 votes [10.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#121 Lobbygobbler

Lobbygobbler
  • Coach
  • 5,691 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:57 PM

Losing by 80 is an embarrassment, especially at home. The realities of Hull KR's lack of player development over the past 6 years are coming back to bite them. The fact that Widnes have achieved more in terms of player development in less than 2 years in SL then Hull KR have in 6 is an indicator as to how poorly run they are.

Hull KR still have 9 overseas players in their first team (one of the highest in the league) and none would even be close to first grade standard in the NRL. this has been the same story ever since the club was promoted. They have contributed next to nothing in terms of production of British talent.

It's great they have a good band of 7-8k of loyal fans, however they have financial difficulties, are playing poorly and play in the worst stadium in SL. The reality is, Hull is simply not big enough for 2 teams. If SL is looking to reduce in size, Hull KR should be first on the chopping block. They are simply not worth having in SL.


It was only a few years ago that Wigan lost 75-0 to Saints and 70-0 to Leeds within a week of each other. Would you have had Wigan on the chopping block back then? By the way Hull is one of the UKs biggest cities and has no major RL clubs within approx 30 miles other than FC and Rovers.

There are far worse grounds in SL esp now that Craven Park has a new stand. Ever been to Odsal, Cas or Wakefield?

#122 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,367 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

Hull KR bring more than most clubs to SL in terms of supporters and player development and you all know it.


Well they don't exactly.

They were the ninth best supported SL club last year.

They were behind Leeds, Wigan, Saints, Huddersfield, Bradford and Castleford in terms of supplying SL with quality players although it's hard to work out whose from West Hull and whose from East Hull..

As a whole Hull AND HKR together are third only to Leeds and Wigan producing quality players.

The best kids can leave Hull for the trophies or stay in Hull and get top money. But not at HKR at the moment. That's the problem. Same as Cas's problem.

Edited by The Parksider, 01 April 2013 - 09:06 PM.


#123 OMEGA

OMEGA
  • Coach
  • 1,140 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:09 PM

I think they were behind Wakefield as well
Aaron Murphy, Dale Ferguson, Jay Pitts, Luke George, Keith Mason George Griffin, Darryl Griffin, Steve Snitch, Gareth Ellis, Ben Westwood, Matt Wildie, Kyle Wood,Danny Cowling , Ben Gledhill, Kyle Trout, Lucas Walshaw, , Chris Annakin, Danny Brough

#124 The Parksider

The Parksider
  • Coach
  • 16,367 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:16 PM

I think they were behind Wakefield as well
Aaron Murphy, Dale Ferguson, Jay Pitts, Luke George, Keith Mason George Griffin, Darryl Griffin, Steve Snitch, Gareth Ellis, Ben Westwood, Matt Wildie, Kyle Wood,Danny Cowling , Ben Gledhill, Kyle Trout, Lucas Walshaw, , Chris Annakin, Danny Brough


I appreciate your list, I just don't think a number of them are from Wakefield and district junior ARL, and a couple may not be top 25 at their clubs??

I made it that there's as many Hull born and bred lads in the Hull 25 as in the HKR 25 so I have no qualms about Rovers imports. Good luck to them all clubs do it.

#125 giwildgo

giwildgo
  • Coach
  • 4,018 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

So were Wigan any good then today?

#126 Red Willow

Red Willow
  • Coach
  • 4,563 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

What do you mean by depth though? Today Saints were missing Meli (rested), Lomax (injured), Roby (injured), Hohaia (injured), Gardner (injured), Wheeler (always injured) and Tony Puletua (injured). Bar Tommy Makinson, who is 22 now I think, and Stu Howarth who was Salford's third choice hooker, all our stand-ins were 19 year olds, and we had a 33 year old fullback playing at stand off! So do we have squad depth? I wouldn't have thought so. It's just that we play our young players when our seniors are injured. We have now played 31 different players this season and our sixth young gun got his debut today. Maybe if Hull KR had previously not focused so much on recruiting antipodeans but instead had given more opportunities to their under 20s when they had one they wouldn't have been on the receiving end of an 84 point thumping but instead would have had enough young players with some experience knocking about on dual registrations or whatever to fill in the gaps.

The fact that clubs such as Saints are able to hold on to those young players makes a difference Teams like Salford lost all these players when the under 21 academy was disbanded. We have just resigned one of those who played today.



#127 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 17,645 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:26 PM

The fact that clubs such as Saints are able to hold on to those young players makes a difference Teams like Salford lost all these players when the under 21 academy was disbanded. We have just resigned one of those who played today.


And what was Salfords's problem, the money ran out.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

Footballers spend 90 minutes pretending to be hurt, rugby players spend 80 minutes pretending they haven't been hurt.


#128 tonyXIII

tonyXIII
  • Coach
  • 4,851 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:44 PM

And what was Salfords's problem, the money ran out.


Yes. But that is a very simplistic analysis of the problems at Salford. Lack of investment led to a culture of "second best is good enough" which lasted for thirty-odd years. This meant that income fell well short of what was needed which meant there was less money for investment, etc.

But yes. Effectively, "the money ran out."

It's that old hobby-horse of ours: marketing. Without it, we'll go nowhere. And that applies to Salford as a club and the game as a whole.

Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society
Founder (and, so far, only) member.


#129 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 19,173 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:46 PM

How about this as an idea? To eliminate all this unfairness where the better teams..er...do better, all games are declared a draw, no matter what the actual score. That way, those clubs that have the temerity to be better than others will be taught a lesson they'll never forget.

#130 Padge

Padge
  • Coach
  • 17,645 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:01 PM

Yes. But that is a very simplistic analysis of the problems at Salford. Lack of investment led to a culture of "second best is good enough" which lasted for thirty-odd years. This meant that income fell well short of what was needed which meant there was less money for investment, etc.

But yes. Effectively, "the money ran out."

It's that old hobby-horse of ours: marketing. Without it, we'll go nowhere. And that applies to Salford as a club and the game as a whole.


The money runs out because the investment is in players wages and not in infrastructure to develop the club.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

Footballers spend 90 minutes pretending to be hurt, rugby players spend 80 minutes pretending they haven't been hurt.


#131 Konkrete

Konkrete
  • Coach
  • 1,891 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:19 PM

I believe 13 of the SL clubs have all had a little extra cash this year.
Integrity is shown when no-one is looking.

#132 Brigg Rover

Brigg Rover
  • Coach
  • 1,918 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

So were Wigan any good then today?

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

#133 Brigg Rover

Brigg Rover
  • Coach
  • 1,918 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:07 PM

Our biggest problem is the culture of the club. And this is set by the coach, Sandercock maybe very good at one on one stuff improving players but he cannot instill the attitude and desire needed.

I will use Wigan as the example. Everytime anyone asks Wane about injuries he says it doesn't matter, he expects his young players to do the job, no excuses allowed. Fixtures piling up no moaning "get out and win" I can almost hear him say it. Our caoch the week before the Easter period is moaning about the number of games. As soon as the players hear this they knew they had a get out of jail free card for todays game as long as they beat FC on friday.

The stupid part of this is that I expect we will go and beat Saints next week now.

#134 Old Frightful

Old Frightful
  • Coach
  • 11,668 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:07 PM

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

I've just emailed this reply to petergentle@cluelessattackingplay.com.

:(

               Hull-FC-V10-e1380711301940.jpg         HULL NOT VERY PROUD

 

 

                           "You're not City anymore!"

 

          (The chant of opposition fans to Hull Tigers' supporters this season)

 


#135 Old Frightful

Old Frightful
  • Coach
  • 11,668 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:08 PM

As soon as the players hear this they knew they had a get out of jail free card for todays game as long as they beat FC on friday.

I rather think this is instilled by Hudgell.

And I think you probably do too.

               Hull-FC-V10-e1380711301940.jpg         HULL NOT VERY PROUD

 

 

                           "You're not City anymore!"

 

          (The chant of opposition fans to Hull Tigers' supporters this season)

 


#136 bobbruce

bobbruce
  • Coach
  • 5,909 posts

Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:09 PM

When Taylor's contract is up he's obviously free to negotiate with anyone. If Rovers had cap space and were to offer him an increased salary but he still wanted to leave, one option would be a "sign and trade" with another team happy to match this new salary, eg Rovers offer him £80K a year, Wigan offer him the same and then agree to trade with Rovers for player or players under contract earning the same salary, which may, for the sake of argument, be O'Loughlin and Goulding. Possibly not but then I just plucked those names from thin air. But you get the drift.

The point is that players are either moving in free agency or being traded under contract. So no team can be asset stripped or bail on their fans to save a few quid.


The problems with this are endless. What if your player wants to leave but none of the players offered as trade are suitable to the players club. Or the player that is suitable doesn't want to go. What if Wigan offer you Sam Tomkins and Saints offer you Lance hohia but the player wants to go to Saints. What if the buying club want to give the player a wage rise. How long before a player took a club to court for restraint of trade.

We talk about rewarding clubs for developing young players then as soon as some teams start seeing a benefit from it we want the rules changing.



#137 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 9,157 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:00 AM

So let me get this straight...

It's not fair that Wigan are allowed to buy player from other clubs? It's not fair that Hull KR chose to sell two players? And Salford chose to sell one?

It's fair that clubs would be forced to keep players that don't want to be there? Or that they can't afford?

It's fair to force players to play for clubs they don't want to be at?

It's fair to prevent Wigan from signing anyone at all (a whole 4 players in the off season) despite losing a considerable chunk from their squad? It's fair to make them bring through loads of youth in their own whilst other clubs choose not to?

DKS, Your whole argument doesn't seem to be talking about what is fair. It seems to be talking about handicapping the large clubs to help the weak ones. That's not proactive. How about we address the problems at the weak clubs and get them up to where the strong ones are instead of the other way around?
Posted Image

#138 The Future is League

The Future is League
  • Coach
  • 5,807 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:16 AM

When sandercock run the white flag up before the game with his comments. That was the green light for the Robins players to take it easy and not have a b######ing from the coach after the game.

#139 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 9,157 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 02:03 AM

When sandercock run the white flag up before the game with his comments. That was the green light for the Robins players to take it easy and not have a b######ing from the coach after the game.

Exactly.
Got his excuses in early. The players knew they didn't have to turn up today.
Posted Image

#140 giwildgo

giwildgo
  • Coach
  • 4,018 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 07:53 AM

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

Thanks - couldn't make it yesterday. The Tomkins 3rd pass play has been lethal all year. Its the number of options that it creates and now that Smith / Green are also starting to use Tomkins as a decoy and play short balls to dummy runners on occasion it is just confusing defences as they can't just ignore Tomkins. Although it is extremely disappointing for Hull KR to concede so many, it shouldn't be forgotten that Wigan were also breaking Saints at will on Friday and could've been 30+ up at half time if they had been more clinical. Same with Widnes and Catalan before them. The combination of Smith, Green and Tomkins is really coming together now and with the young forwards stepping up this season is exceeding my expectations. Credit must go to Wane, Harris and Deacon - it obviously pays to have some of the most intelligent halfbacks of their generation in the coaching team.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users