Jump to content


TotalRL.com Shop Alert: Last Ordering Date for Free Pre-Xmas Delivery within UK: 2pm Thursday 18th December!!
Rugby League Yearbook 2014/15 The Forbidden Game League Express League Express Gift Card Rugby League World Rugby League World Gift Card
Buy Now £14.99 / Kindle Buy Now £14.99 / Kindle Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards Print / Digital Subscription Gift Cards



Photo
- - - - -

Super League as an Anglo-French competition is the best way forward


  • Please log in to reply
105 replies to this topic

#101 superten

superten
  • Coach
  • 371 posts

Posted 02 April 2013 - 10:45 PM

I dont see the point of adding more french teams all fans are not made of money imagine three or four away games in france plus the trip to london I would be priced out of the game I love. France should have its own league as should wales. Then in time we could form a european club comp. If italy had good world cup you would all be saying put two italian teams in like wise ireland before we know it all our teams have gone.What we should be doing is sending coaches out to france wales italy ireland and any where else and coaching there players . CLUBS should be looking at twinning up so instead of leeds loaning players to hunslet they could loan them to teams in the french and welsh leagues. Clubs could do pre season tours to other countries . Why are we talking that france is the promise land our saviours when you see the state the game is in over there. We need to sort out our own league first looking after our own clubs before pampering to france. Im not against expansion but lets get it right here if roles were reserved do you think french teams would be handing us places in there league at the exspence of one of there clubs. No they would just be like there ru clubs and buy up all the best talent .I have also notice these days that less and less people are talking about giving cumbria a super league team.
Chief Crazy Eagle

#102 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 10,079 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:00 AM

Well you're pretty wrong if you think anywhere near 10k fans turned up at Wrexham. Huge potential, how, in what respect? Have you ever been to Wrexham/North West Wales, what are you basing this on? I live not too far from the border and there's no interest in RL or money in the area. It's Union or Premiership football.

I'm pretty wrong?
4 of the first 5 games in Wrexham had these attendances:
vs Leeds - 10,344
vs Hull - 6,794
vs Catalans - 6,124
vs Wigan - 6,075
So no, I wasn't pretty wrong. They had one 10k crowd, and three above 6k. The potential is there. There is no football league club or Welsh Premiership union club in the area.

But you're not talking about one club are you, you're talking about several. What if we end up having a SL of 5 English, 5 French and 2 Welsh clubs? Some teams will have made way for them. If Barrow or Halifax were French or Welsh, many people would be pushing for them to join SL, infact they'd probably already be there.

I am. The OP may want to put in several at once but that's not my position and I don't think anyone agrees that it would be a good idea.
Regardless, how many clubs were "shut down"? None. So how can you logically argue that this is what would happen? It's hyperbole.
If teams have made way for them because they don't offer as much to the league, then why does it matter if they're French or Welsh? It's a European league, not an English league. No English club has a right to be in SL because they're English.

Why will there be more cash if there are a few Welsh and French teams? Won't this all aid Wales & France in getting a few more players, but come at the cost of the English, where teams have downsized and no longer have top training facilities? Shouldn't there be more of a push to promote the game in the North East, Cumbria, South Yorkshire & the Midlands?

It was you who said "there may be more cash floating around", so you accept this as a possibility.
The top English players will gravitate to the top English clubs. This will increase the quality of those clubs. If the pool of players is wider, more quality is likely to rise to the top. This will make the league more intense. Having 12 clubs in a 120 mile stretch is not widening the player pool, it's saturating it. That area is never likely to provide enough quality players to fill 12 SL clubs. It makes the league less intense, makes our players poorer in preparation for the Aussies.

So we need to expand the player pool to increase the quality of the league. The best way to do this is introduce clubs from new areas that are likely to succeed. The most likely new areas to succeed at this time are in the south of France. There are no well established clubs in the North East and the Midlands. Cumbria doesn't have a club that meets any criteria. South Yorkshire (Sheffield) aren't quite there yet but have huge potential.

So you're saying SL may downsize, then why not just have promotion & relegation, and allow these French teams to join that? Why must they join the top flight? You say downsize, in the case the league is already full of top sides. Or if the league downsized, surely there'd then be no room for more French teams.

Having French teams in an English second tier is unsustainable. We've seen this in Toulouse. The level of money and interest involved isn't high enough to cover the cost. They'd be better off staying in their own semi-pro league which actually gets some very good crowds similar to the Championship. It's more cost effective. They shouldn't have to appease the English second tier to enter a European league.

No, of course not... But should we just let Crusaders join SL and kick out maybe Hull KR? Allow 3 engineered expansion clubs from France to join and remove Castleford, Wakefield & Huddersfield. I'd have said Broncos, but using the Welsh logic, rugby Union is big down there, I think they had an attendance near 15k once, and additionally, it's the capital city.

If Crusaders are ever in a position to come into the league again, they'll be coming through the exact same route as Barrow and Halifax (two clubs you've championed for entry already) so they'd replace the same club as them if they were ready.
As for calling the French clubs "engineered", you've shown your complete lack of knowledge of the French game. Many of the French clubs were established in the 30s. They aren't engineered. They have a long rich history in the game.
Posted Image

#103 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 10,079 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 12:22 AM

I dont see the point of adding more french teams all fans are not made of money imagine three or four away games in france plus the trip to london I would be priced out of the game I love.

Fans don't have to go to every game. It's their choice. I can't afford to go to many, if any, away games this year. Times are hard. That doesn't mean I expect the game to bring all the SL clubs to within my back yard. You don't see union or football fans complaining about travelling, do you?

France should have its own league as should wales. Then in time we could form a european club comp.

My word! There isn't the money! And Wales have its own league?! The top football teams in Wales don't even play in their league!

If italy had good world cup you would all be saying put two italian teams in like wise ireland before we know it all our teams have gone.

Only someone who doesn't understand the game would suggest such a thing. Neither country have the backing nor the grassroots nor the local interest to sustain a pro club, so no intelligent person would suggest it. If a good World Cup campaign spurs on local interest, that's a great result. But it would take decades for anywhere to build from next to nothing to SL. France already have that in numerous areas. Nowhere else outside if the North West and Yorkshire do.

What we should be doing is sending coaches out to france wales italy ireland and any where else and coaching there players . CLUBS should be looking at twinning up so instead of leeds loaning players to hunslet they could loan them to teams in the french and welsh leagues.

Completely unworkable. Travel logistics would be a nightmare.

Clubs could do pre season tours to other countries . Why are we talking that france is the promise land our saviours when you see the state the game is in over there.

They lack investment. We need to help find it. They have well established clubs playing in front of decent crowds on the back of tiny media interest and lack of investment.

We need to sort out our own league first looking after our own clubs before pampering to france. Im not against expansion but lets get it right here if roles were reserved do you think french teams would be handing us places in there league at the exspence of one of there clubs. No they would just be like there ru clubs and buy up all the best talent .

Usually when someone says "I'm not against expansion" it's usually a cover for "this is why I'm against expansion". If we want to grow our sport (and it is our sport; we, the English, invented it), we need to help nurture it in new areas.

I have also notice these days that less and less people are talking about giving cumbria a super league team.

Because none if the Cumbrian sides have the facilities to sustain a SL team. Nor the finance. They are all massively struggling. They'd die in SL.
Posted Image

#104 Mumby Magic

Mumby Magic
  • Coach
  • 3,198 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 07:03 AM

Eventual P and R with all Championship clubs in a position to be promoted, ground etc etc should be in place probably by 2018 at the latest. Expansion clubs from Championship 1 only. New French teams? Where would they start?

Lilly, Jacob and Isaac, what my life is about. Although our route through life is not how it should be, I am a blessed man.


#105 MustardBoy

MustardBoy
  • Players
  • 32 posts

Posted 03 April 2013 - 08:27 PM



I have also notice these days that less and less people are talking about giving cumbria a super league team.

Because none if the Cumbrian sides have the facilities to sustain a SL team. Nor the finance. They are all massively struggling. They'd die in SL.

Wellsy, I'm sorry, but if Cumbria couldn't support a RL side, how on Earth would Wrexham? Is it because it's Wales and the Welsh like rugby? There is a football team there which will be league again next season in all probability, plus there are supporters who travel to Liverpool/United, etc. Surely you'd be more interested in getting a Cumbrian presence in SL?



If italy had good world cup you would all be saying put two italian teams in like wise ireland before we know it all our teams have gone.

Only someone who doesn't understand the game would suggest such a thing. Neither country have the backing nor the grassroots/ local interest to sustain a pro club, so no intelligent person would suggest it...

Neither does Wales, but you seem convinced they'll be a success. Shouldn't London be a success too, isn't Union huge down there? What's gone wrong in London? Wouldn't you think having a successful Broncos a success will do more for England than having some French teams turn pro at the expense of some existing clubs?

If teams have made way for them because they don't offer as much to the league, then why does it matter if they're French or Welsh? It's a European league, not an English league. No English club has a right to be in SL because they're English.

No, neither does a team have a right to be in because they're French or Welsh. At this moment in time, the strongest are English, but ultimately you want to evolve more semi-pro French sides into pro clubs, and ultimately remove some English clubs you feel are below par. Wouldn't you be sad to see, a team like Wakefield be removed for Wrexham, who would never be as big, nor have as much potential.

-

Out of curiosity, what do you think has gone wrong in London? It's not an attack, but by using much of your logic, they should be a guaranteed success.

#106 Wellsy4HullFC

Wellsy4HullFC
  • Coach
  • 10,079 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

Apologies, I did reply to this yesterday but it didn't post due to the site going down temporarily!

Wellsy, I'm sorry, but if Cumbria couldn't support a RL side, how on Earth would Wrexham? Is it because it's Wales and the Welsh like rugby? There is a football team there which will be league again next season in all probability, plus there are supporters who travel to Liverpool/United, etc. Surely you'd be more interested in getting a Cumbrian presence in SL?

It's weird how quickly you've developed a strawman argument in the "is it because you think the Welsh like rugby?" line. No idea where that opinion has come from.

Cumbria can't support SL because the clubs there neither have the facilities or the financial backing. At present, they don't really have great support either to overcome those issues.
Crusaders have the facilities. They don't have the financial backing. There support is similar to those Cumbrian clubs at present. At present, I'd say they had a better chance. Altogether, I don't think any Cumbrian or Welsh in will be ready for a while yet.

Why would I be more interested in a Cumbrian presence than anywhere else?


Neither does Wales, but you seem convinced they'll be a success. Shouldn't London be a success too, isn't Union huge down there? What's gone wrong in London? Wouldn't you think having a successful Broncos a success will do more for England than having some French teams turn pro at the expense of some existing clubs?

Again, this union strawman argument has appeared. Why? Where have I once mentioned anything about rugby union?
Having a successful Broncos would be great for England. But at present, they have neither the financial backing nor the management to push forward. The club is appallingly run.

Having a successful Broncos and adding a French team to SL is not a one or the other choice.

neither does a team have a right to be in because they're French or Welsh. At this moment in time, the strongest are English, but ultimately you want to evolve more semi-pro French sides into pro clubs, and ultimately remove some English clubs you feel are below par. Wouldn't you be sad to see, a team like Wakefield be removed for Wrexham, who would never be as big, nor have as much potential.

I never said they did. You keep wanting them to appease the English clubs by going through their system though. That's not their right. It's a European league.

I'd feel sad if any club had to be replaced, whether they be English, French, Welsh or Hull KR! But if that club is not pulling it's weight or keeping promises, it's ultimately their own responsibility and I'd understand that it's a move in the right direction to give someone else a chance.

Out of curiosity, what do you think has gone wrong in London? It's not an attack, but by using much of your logic, they should be a guaranteed success.

I've explained earlier my opinions on London.
But out if curiosity, what is "my logic" and how have you established what "my logic" is?
Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users