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Will we ever catch up?


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#21 markleeds

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

Having a friendly media must help a lot. Even the BBC which is supposed to be neutral dont give TL the attention it deserves. On Sat morning there was at least 3 times the amount of coverage for 2 Union games than RL got, and they only mentioned the Wigan game and showed walk over try.

#22 Old Frightful

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 05:58 PM

Try telling that to the people of Melbourne, Perth or Adelaide. RL just happens to be the biggest sport in the biggest city in Australia.

Perhaps I should have worded it better. It's not "dwarfed" by a rival sport. It probably comes third behind cricket and the AFL but cricket ain't a rival sport and it can't be too far behind the AFL in crowd figures can it?, although I must admit to not being too sure on that one.

We will always be dwarfed by Association Football over here for some reason, sad but true.

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#23 JohnM

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:05 PM

Just best the Aussies in a three match series.

#24 trakl

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 07:17 PM

Perhaps I should have worded it better. It's not "dwarfed" by a rival sport. It probably comes third behind cricket and the AFL but cricket ain't a rival sport and it can't be too far behind the AFL in crowd figures can it?, although I must admit to not being too sure on that one.

We will always be dwarfed by Association Football over here for some reason, sad but true.


In terms of attendances, the NRL is actually "dwarfed" by the AFL - the latter has, I think, an average gate of more than double the former. In terms of TV ratings, rugby league compares much more favourably - as reflected in its latest TV contract. Rugby league remains the premier winter sport in NSW and Queensland; Aussie Rules in Victoria, Western Australia and South Australia.

Rugby league, I think, has a greater capacity for growth...

#25 Steve May

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

Simple: bring our game up to the NRL standards!


But that's the outcome, not the input!

That's me.  I'm done.


#26 Steve May

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

The question shouldn't be "Will we ever catch up?" but "How do we catch up?".


Yes.

And the answer has to be a set of concrete activities that you can actually do. Not a wishlist of outcomes.

For example, "Make SL as intense as the NRL" is a pointless comment. "Use the assessment criteria for an SL franchise to make sure every European SL club has high quality training facilities" is something that can actually be done.

That's me.  I'm done.


#27 Steve May

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:08 PM

Is the right and logical answer.

Wishing and hoping, planning and dreaming...we have a snowball in hell's chance of overtaking soccer as no. one sport in the Uk, and that is the only way to get crowds like 50K plus for matches.


Crowds of 50k at matches is never going to happen. Wishing for them is pointless. Waiting for them to happen is stupid.

Crowds of 10k is a perfectly sensible and realistic target.

What we need is a 12 or so clubs with good facilities on and off the pitch, with high quality junior development schemes and cultures of long term, continuous improvement.

That's me.  I'm done.


#28 boxhead

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 07:59 AM

In reply to the original post.
No England are unlikely to catch up, the respective games have moved on from the days where England were the stronger partner in the game.
Some things move in cycles, this is not the case with Rugby League between the two Nations
Australia has moved forward in a big way especially with the media deals and Sponsorship the game attracts due to the TV ratings.
England probably needs a short and long term plan to reinvent itself even in the Northern homelands.
A good TV ad or even a win in the years World Cup will not be the catalyst for a massive change, it will have some gloss for a while and then life moves on, a World Cup win is great until you get thrashed the next game.
Does anyone think the Kiwis are the best team in the World due to their success in a couple of one off games.

#29 guess who

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:08 AM

I got prem sports for the first time this year.
After watching the NRL for the first time. Its not just the size of the crowd we need to catch up.

The game is much better to watch. The players are much better. The way the game is reffed is much better.

We are lights years behind them in every aspect.

#30 boxhead

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:11 AM

I posted here a week or so ago about developing Juniors and School teams and a few people said that was rubbish.
Football (Soccer) has a huge following, why is that? because most people have played the game at some level, be it at School, the local 7th grade team in a Village or Town, in some way there has been a connection.
Or there has been so many with a connection that the game looks like the game that is popular and the game to follow for the ones that have never played any Sport.

Australia has built the game where it is today in Oz by the local communities that promote the Juniors and their local games between small towns in the bush and country towns.
When SOO is played and they show the players photos and profiles look at where they come from, small local clubs built around local communities.
Build the foundations with the enthusiasts and get the game into all of the local Schools, its not a Flat Capper mentality its the obvious way to move forward.
The problem in England seems to have been the Cities and Towns that were Rugby League strongholds lost their way to some extent and decided importing players was easier and cheaper than building the infrastructure to develop a Junior player.

What are the chances of a Punter just deciding Rugby League looks like a great game although I know nothing at all about it other than I stumbled across it on a TV channel showing Ice Hockey and Badminton?
Or a team was just landed in my patch by the authorities, London, Wales, without any build up of the local juniors and community support, NONE

The Yanks think Gridiron, Basketball, Baseball and Ice Hockey are the ducks Nuts, they have not done well in selling their brands overseas in any meaningful way, even with all their money and Media.

Salford are on a hiding to nothing, the money will not matter, there is no grass roots support and the money will fade before the enthusiasm grows.

Edited by AndyCapp, 01 April 2013 - 08:21 AM.


#31 gingerjon

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:20 AM

Crowds of 50k at matches is never going to happen. Wishing for them is pointless. Waiting for them to happen is stupid.

Crowds of 10k is a perfectly sensible and realistic target.

What we need is a 12 or so clubs with good facilities on and off the pitch, with high quality junior development schemes and cultures of long term, continuous improvement.

And it's worth pointing out that a 12 team league with all that would put us comfortably into 'second biggest professional sport' in England territory and would represent the strongest period in rugby league's history.
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#32 gingerjon

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:21 AM

Personally, I don't think we'll ever catch the aussies up and I don't have a problem with that. The NRL is light years ahead of what we could ever achieve in England; we have no equivalent to State of Origin and the Kangaroos are just remorseless. We may win the occasional match, perhaps a series. Maybe, like New Zealand, those wins will be in finals. Gotta enjoy the challenge though.
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#33 roughyedspud

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:22 AM

the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance



as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000


what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early

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#34 gingerjon

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:28 AM

the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance



as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000


what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early

The season average for 2012 was 17,346. (For comparison: AFL was 32,748 but, as said, lower TV audience).
Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#35 boxhead

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 08:31 AM

the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance



as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000


what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early


That is not right Spud.
The Easter Show attracts a totally different crowd than an NRL match, if fact some footy fans would have pulled out of a game that has so many Easter Show fans blocking up the Trains into the Stadium.

Penrith came second last in 2012, you will hardly get many away fans catch a plane from 1000 klms away them travel 40klms from the Airport to Penrith to see the game a team that this year has played 4 won 1.
You are picking a tough scenario Spud, how many were at London the other week? not an outer western suburb of Sydney but a fairly large Town by all accounts.

Edited by AndyCapp, 01 April 2013 - 08:43 AM.


#36 YCKonstantine

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:09 AM

The way the two are broadcasted in my mind makes a huge difference. Would you rather watch a rugby match from a modern looking stadium, big crowd, nice pitch, beautiful sunny day or from a delapedated (sp)stadium, half empty crowd, churned up boggy pitch on a cold raining night? I'm pretty sure the NRL uses fake crowd noise or tampers with the volumes of it as I notice the sound always goes up a significant amount when a tackle is about to be made. But these are all things to make the product look better for the TV audience, which in my imo work very well.
First impression turning on a NRL match, 'wow nice day, crowd looks good, nice ground.'
First impression turning on a SL match, 'wow there's hardly any ###### there and that pitch looks like a bluddy mudbath'

Edited by YCKonstantine, 01 April 2013 - 09:11 AM.

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#37 Saintslass

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

I think it was on another thread that someone posted that they had started watching rugby league (at Widnes) as a result of the Rugby League of the Extraordinary campaign. Shows that such campaigns can have an impact, it's just that we never know how much of an impact they have. We all know that crowds went up in 2012 and have gone down this season. Was the increase in crowds in 2012 anything to do with the Stobart promotion? It could be, but we would never know. Also, we had a tremendous four nations competition at the end of 2011 which was promoted and covered very well, and England put on a great show at Wembley. I went, and there were loads of southern English accents to be heard around the stadium - a bit of a novelty for me as I hadn't really heard any at previous rugby league matches. Could it be that the lack of a four nations has meant that any advances we made last season have been undermined or perhaps last season was so dire people were put off following through.

One area where I do think we are consistently missing a trick is by not marketing Good Friday derbies as a derby day event. Why is the RFL not making a massive deal of what is a natural and embedded event in our calendar? There was no marketing or promotion for derby day and yet as can be seen by rugby union, people are attracted by events. While in some ways Good Friday sells itself, that is only to the converted. I am sure there is a great campaign just waiting to get out if only someone would release it.

Edited by Saintslass, 01 April 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#38 boxhead

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:25 AM

The way the two are broadcasted in my mind makes a huge difference. Would you rather watch a rugby match from a modern looking stadium, big crowd, nice pitch, beautiful sunny day or from a delapedated (sp)stadium, half empty crowd, churned up boggy pitch on a cold raining night? I'm pretty sure the NRL uses fake crowd noise or tampers with the volumes of it as I notice the sound always goes up a significant amount when a tackle is about to be made. But these are all things to make the product look better for the TV audience, which in my imo work very well.
First impression turning on a NRL match, 'wow nice day, crowd looks good, nice ground.'
First impression turning on a SL match, 'wow there's hardly any ###### there and that pitch looks like a bluddy mudbath'


The TV Coverage is more upmarket in the NRL, More Cameras, reasonable commentators that are often ex legends of the game that have been put through media courses they can not change the Weather usually.
I do not think they dub crowd noise at all.
The Stand that is in view of the Camera is usually the preferred stand by the fans for different reasons.

#39 JohnM

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:26 AM

Have crowds gone down this season, though? Would't it be better to wait until after the grand final and make a judgement over the whole season, not just over 8 or 9 league games? That way, weather effects for example might have been cancelled out.

#40 roughyedspud

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 09:37 AM

The season average for 2012 was 17,346. (For comparison: AFL was 32,748 but, as said, lower TV audience).


whats the NRL average if you take brisbane's average out of it?

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