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nigel wood bigging super league up and the game of rl

a round too early

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#161 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:01 PM

I like the bit about hunslet waiting until 'they' enlarged the south Leeds stadium

The 'they' would have been the council tax payers of Leeds who would have quite rightly hung drawn and quartered the council if they had carried out such a ludicrous and wasteful action

Meanwhile back in the real world....
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#162 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

I like the bit about hunslet waiting until 'they' enlarged the south Leeds stadium

The 'they' would have been the council tax payers of Leeds who would have quite rightly hung drawn and quartered the council if they had carried out such a ludicrous and wasteful action

Meanwhile back in the real world....


Didnt the council promise to deliver though on condition Hunslet vacated Elland Road?

#163 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:03 PM

For some reason I can't reply to Wellsy using his quotes so my response to him are:

Are you really trying to justify a club not having facilities for a full season by comparing it with a club that had to find a temporary ground for one day with a weeks notice? Seriously? 
The fact that London have been in SL since the start and they need to find a ground to play in, in less than a week is a joke.  London have the luxury of playing where they want with no questions asked.  Hunslet would never have this luxury

So whose place did they take? If the league expands, there are two new places. One of them was used to help expand the professional game for the benefit of the game as a whole. That isn't injustice. It was a poor decision but with good intentions for the game.
 

To try and say that me being a Hull fan is the reason why I think Gateshead was a good idea is a testiment to your ability to argue the point rather than the person. It shows you're struggling to argue the point and so are diverting. I'll leave it at that. 
For the benefit of the game.  Yet again I here this from a SL club supporter, easy to see the benefits when you are included in the future.  You can think I am struggling all you like but the fact is you you think the RFL do a great job and it's easy to see why when you look how your club as benefited from them.

 

You weren't kicked out for Catalans. No one was. Everyone knew it was happening. Everyone had time. It was a very fair and justified process. To call it an injustice is looking for something to complain about!
Very fair and justified process, really.  Voted in by SL clubs put under pressure to do so.

So I'm not allowed an opinion then? I support a SL club, my opinion doesn't matter? Who on Earth are you going to convince with an attitude like that?
What about fans in the Championship that don't agree with you? What's your way of dismissing their opinion?
Course you are allowed an opinion but you don't get turkeys voting for Christmas.  I certainly won't convince SL clubs fans with this argument because they have the same I'm alright jack attitude.

 

My God, you have the audacity to call me ignorant, yet think that clubs are guaranteed a new rich owner should their previous owners feck up and so no one is afraid to go into admin?! Are you kidding me? Crusaders never came back. Salford and Bradford were nearly lost to the game and very lucky to have been saved. But no one was afraid, and it's something clubs may do on purpose to gain an advantage. Really?!
Why would a club's owners bust their club to benefit it if they would no longer be at it?
Utter ridiculous, incoherent and illogical argument.
Crusaders had no fans and were going from one scandal to another so they are a special case.  The other clubs have not done bad have they?  Lost to the game do me a favour, they were always going to be looked after and you know it.

 

Who was there to replace them? If they were any good replacements in the pipeline they wouldn't be there. Halifax didn't have anything other than a ground. Fev and Barrow had just as poor grounds. Who'd replace them?
Interesting that you recognise that Halifax had a ground.  Wakefield only had money because they were brought out of administration by a rich backer.  So Wakefield were only stronger due to administration.  A great and just way to run the game I think not.

 

But it is ultimately their choice. Three clubs chose not to go that route and they are the top three clubs.
I did not know Barrow was a top 3 club.  It must be true though because a SL club fan as told me.  Of course it's ultimately there choice but they feel like they don't have a choice.  Not sure where you are going with that argument.


Edited by Ian (Pencil) Elliott, 04 April 2013 - 11:53 PM.

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#164 Padge

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:11 PM

£87m to turn fully professional, switch to summer and set up a European Super League. They took a risk on it because it would undoubtedly have made the game stronger had it come off.

Summer rugby wasn't part of the deal nor was the European bit.

Summer rugby was already in the bag, Sky weren't bothered and they weren't keen on Paris, they couldn't sell dishes in France.

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#165 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:13 AM


Not the point. They took a risk on London because the advantages of a European Super League had it worked would have been immense.



You seem to fundamentally misunderstand the point of a governing body. It isn't to be 100% fair, it is to make the game stronger.

Look at 1995. The game was offered a once in a lifetime package. £87m to turn fully professional, switch to summer and set up a European Super League. They took a risk on it because it would undoubtedly have made the game stronger had it come off. It was idealistic and didn't work as they hoped but it was certainly worth the risk. The 'fairest' thing to do would have been to reject the money, promote Keighley and not relegate Widnes. However, what good is fairness if it weakens the strength of the game and in the end helps contribute to the games demise?

The RFL chose not to allow automatic P&R for the strength of the game. Their rationale is/was that the game is best served by a vibrant top tier played in front of big crowds and in modern stadia. They therefore put minimum standards in place. Standards that Hunslet and Dewsbury were more than aware that they didn't meet. Once again, I will point out that other sports include minimum standards such as Football and Rugby Union. It might be romantic but the idea of Swinton having a good couple of years and ending up in Super League isn't sustainable for our sport.

Let's look at Football again. Is it fair that 90% of the clubs under the current model stand no chance of ever winning the league? Is it fair that the sport is decided by which chairman has the most money? Surely the fairest solution would be to go strictly amateur to give all clubs an equal chance of the competing for honours. The governing body of course know that this would be suicide for the sport.

Your argument completely falls on its backside because you continually blame the RFL as if they are a coherent body that have made continual decisions for the past 18 years. They are not and have compromised many different people from across many different walks of life. We've had people from within the game and outside of the game. Take Dickie Lewis, he was a complete outsider who concluded that this was the best way to make the game stronger in the long run. We currently have a man who is an ex Chief Executive of a club that are probably the hardest done to by licensing. Surely his agenda would be to try and benefit Halifax by bringing back P&R. I suspect he doesn't because he doesn't think it is sustainable.

The £87m contract was worked on behind closed doors.  It wasn't a Fax that was dropped out of the Sky, it was a calculated plan for the RFL to get what they want.

 

The problem with the RFL is that they like to have the image where they care for all clubs when it's not the case.  If they came out with the truth  then at least clubs would no where they stand.

 

If you want to go down the football route then I can point at Barnsley, Bradford & Blackpool who are unfashionable clubs but were given there chance in the top flight.  When this is mentioned it is usually met by a response that football can't be classed the same as RL but it is used when the argument suits.

 

Nigel Wood is detested by Halifax because of what went on during his time there.  Fax fans hate him and he knows it, so there is no way he would do them any favours.


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#166 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:18 AM

It's your heart
All I'm saying us that sl clubs have higher overheads is it true or isn't it? Also SL is the flagship comp and the raison d'être for SKY broadcasting rugby league.

Your club benefitted financially from the deal and voted for it they had the choice to vote against it or abstain on principle: they voted in favour.


What form does your campaign take? I'm not being funny I really didn't know there was one. If your campaign is successful what are your ideas on dealing with the yo yo syndrome ?

Do you think your club not being punished for going into administration was fair on the other clubs in the competition it plays in?

Yes we did benefit finacially but we lost hell of a lot in the process and have only just recovered in recent years.

 

I don't give a toss about the Yo-Yo system I care about sport and what is right.  Rovers can be classed as a Yo yo club and it never put me off.

 

We should have been punished but the sanctions for entering administartion were not in place then.  We were in debt down to losing thousands of gate money by not being in the top flight but rules are rules. 


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#167 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:37 AM

Didnt the council promise to deliver though on condition Hunslet vacated Elland Road?

no, no official assurance was given.

 

andif they had don it would have been  scandal


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#168 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:50 AM

Yes we did benefit finacially but we lost hell of a lot in the process and have only just recovered in recent years.

 

I don't give a toss about the Yo-Yo system I care about sport and what is right.  Rovers can be classed as a Yo yo club and it never put me off.

 

We should have been punished but the sanctions for entering administartion were not in place then.  We were in debt down to losing thousands of gate money by not being in the top flight but rules are rules. 

 

recovered from what?

Rovers, despite the success they had on the field were aleays in  financial mess, apart from when they sold the best players. I suggest though in fairness to your club that you check thenumber of times they were relegated in the two and a half decads of prom and reg: I think they went down three times. True they frequently struggled to avoid relgtion(with lite if any effect on crowds despite the boubnty this siutuation is supposed to provide).

 

The yo yo sydrome was one ofthe most destructive aspects, which th eclubs involved are still paying the pice for. I give a toss about it: all though to b honest I gave a toss until the whol thing ground me down-amongst other things. Your club waas in debt because it sent money it didn't have. Again yourfclub has serious form for having major financial issues: check its history.


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#169 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:04 AM

The £87m contract was worked on behind closed doors.  It wasn't a Fax that was dropped out of the Sky, it was a calculated plan for the RFL to get what they want.
 
The problem with the RFL is that they like to have the image where they care for all clubs when it's not the case.  If they came out with the truth  then at least clubs would no where they stand.

Like I said earlier 'The RFL' do not exist in the way you talk about them. What is there a secret dossier that is passed from one chief executive to the next. Or is there another secret paymaster that pulls the strings. I'd love to hear what brilliant theory you've concocted for this one.
 

If you want to go down the football route then I can point at Barnsley, Bradford & Blackpool who are unfashionable clubs but were given there chance in the top flight.  When this is mentioned it is usually met by a response that football can't be classed the same as RL but it is used when the argument suits.

Using Football as an analogy as a different sport (one that a number of other sports could have been used as) and using it as proof of something that would work in RL is not the same thing. Why don't you actually address the points that people make, how sustainable would Newcastle United with a crowd of 50,000 dropping into a league that averages 7,000 be?
 

Nigel Wood is detested by Halifax because of what went on during his time there.  Fax fans hate him and he knows it, so there is no way he would do them any favours.

It really is a sad little world that you inhabit. Everybody is motivated by their vendettas and nobody makes decisions on their own merits.

You are just a conspiracy theorist and there is literally no point trying to convince you of anything. You've lived in this black and white, good vs evil world since 1995 where every decision made by the RFL is to try and kill off the smaller clubs. It doesn't matter how many times it's pointed out that this is absurd and not even close to factually correct you would rather believe your own little conspiracy theory rather than believe that different people with different motivations made decisions based on what they thought was best for the whole game at the time. You're no better than somebody who thinks the moon landings were faked and ingnores any evidence to the contrary.

I'll give you one thing though, you have at least proved the point that there are a number of 'fans' of RL that do want the game to fail and that's purely why they post on here. It's beyond pathetic of course, but at least you've provided useful future ammunition against Usain Bolt's who make out like they are doing it all in the name of fairness.

#170 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:36 AM

You are just a conspiracy theorist and there is literally no point trying to convince you of anything. You've lived in this black and white, good vs evil world since 1995 where every decision made by the RFL is to try and kill off the smaller clubs. It doesn't matter how many times it's pointed out that this is absurd and not even close to factually correct you would rather believe your own little conspiracy theory rather than believe that different people with different motivations made decisions based on what they thought was best for the whole game at the time. You're no better than somebody who thinks the moon landings were faked and ingnores any evidence to the contrary.

I'll give you one thing though, you have at least proved the point that there are a number of 'fans' of RL that do want the game to fail and that's purely why they post on here. It's beyond pathetic of course, but at least you've provided useful future ammunition against Usain Bolt's who make out like they are doing it all in the name of fairness.

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

There are some people with genuine gripes that are upset about things and explain them well and don't expect people to agree their opinion, just want people to know that this is their reason why they're not happy. I'll put Robin Evans in that category. He's not happy that there's no P&R. He's not b*tching and moaning.

But Ian literally is looking as hard as he can to turn anything into a negative, connect everything together into a conspiracy, and basically would like th game to fail at the top to prove himself right. It really is sad that someone can let their bitterness overtake their chance if being happy. I see it too many times in life, not just in RL. These kind of people just aren't good people to be around. They can ruin any positive mood you're in by constantly attempting to bring you down to their level.
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#171 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

Like I said earlier 'The RFL' do not exist in the way you talk about them. What is there a secret dossier that is passed from one chief executive to the next. Or is there another secret paymaster that pulls the strings. I'd love to hear what brilliant theory you've concocted for this one.
 Using Football as an analogy as a different sport (one that a number of other sports could have been used as) and using it as proof of something that would work in RL is not the same thing. Why don't you actually address the points that people make, how sustainable would Newcastle United with a crowd of 50,000 dropping into a league that averages 7,000 be?
 It really is a sad little world that you inhabit. Everybody is motivated by their vendettas and nobody makes decisions on their own merits.

You are just a conspiracy theorist and there is literally no point trying to convince you of anything. You've lived in this black and white, good vs evil world since 1995 where every decision made by the RFL is to try and kill off the smaller clubs. It doesn't matter how many times it's pointed out that this is absurd and not even close to factually correct you would rather believe your own little conspiracy theory rather than believe that different people with different motivations made decisions based on what they thought was best for the whole game at the time. You're no better than somebody who thinks the moon landings were faked and ingnores any evidence to the contrary.

I'll give you one thing though, you have at least proved the point that there are a number of 'fans' of RL that do want the game to fail and that's purely why they post on here. It's beyond pathetic of course, but at least you've provided useful future ammunition against Usain Bolt's who make out like they are doing it all in the name of fairness.

Great you have finally realised that there is no point trying to convince me.  There is no point trying to convince you that your ideas are based on the fact that your club is cosily secure in the top flight because you are part of the chosen ones.

 

Look no further than our clubs history.  They were advertising season tickets for the SL without it being officially anounced that they had been accepted.  Your refusal to admit that Widnes were not a shoe in for the next licences and that a deal was done behind close doors is just one example where you don't want to accept that the RFL is not a fair administration.  This is pathetic if you ask me,

 

I will carry on with my bitter arguments arguments if you don't mind and you can go back to your cosy world of SL believing that the Nigel Wood is a messiah.


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#172 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:52 AM

recovered from what?

Rovers, despite the success they had on the field were aleays in  financial mess, apart from when they sold the best players. I suggest though in fairness to your club that you check thenumber of times they were relegated in the two and a half decads of prom and reg: I think they went down three times. True they frequently struggled to avoid relgtion(with lite if any effect on crowds despite the boubnty this siutuation is supposed to provide).

 

The yo yo sydrome was one ofthe most destructive aspects, which th eclubs involved are still paying the pice for. I give a toss about it: all though to b honest I gave a toss until the whol thing ground me down-amongst other things. Your club waas in debt because it sent money it didn't have. Again yourfclub has serious form for having major financial issues: check its history.

Recovered from being kicked out of the top flight and losing thousands of people through the gates.  I thought someone who was close to the club would have known this?

 

If the yo-yo system was so bad then what system crippled Bradford, Crusaders, Wakefield and Salford?  You seem to have some kind of pleasure in highlighting clubs like mine and Leigh's financial history. Yet when the game as never had more money you fail to mention the financial issues of Super League clubs cocooned in their own world withot P&R.


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#173 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:55 AM

Great you have finally realised that there is no point trying to convince me. There is no point trying to convince you that your ideas are based on the fact that your club is cosily secure in the top flight because you are part of the chosen ones.

Look no further than our clubs history. They were advertising season tickets for the SL without it being officially anounced that they had been accepted. Your refusal to admit that Widnes were not a shoe in for the next licences and that a deal was done behind close doors is just one example where you don't want to accept that the RFL is not a fair administration. This is pathetic if you ask me,

I will carry on with my bitter arguments arguments if you don't mind and you can go back to your cosy world of SL believing that the Nigel Wood is a messiah.

Why on Earth would you knowing want to be bitter?!

You've basically invented a situation in your head to justify your bitterness. That is extremely worrying. That's paranoia. That's a step towards mental health issues.

And you're still dismissing someone who disagrees with you because they're a SL club fan. What about those, like l'angelo, that disagree with you but don't support a SL side? What's your excuse for them?
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#174 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:59 AM

Recovered from being kicked out of the top flight and losing thousands of people through the gates. I thought someone who was close to the club would have known this?

If the yo-yo system was so bad then what system crippled Bradford, Crusaders, Wakefield and Salford? You seem to have some kind of pleasure in highlighting clubs like mine and Leigh's financial history. Yet when the game as never had more money you fail to mention the financial issues of Super League clubs cocooned in their own world withot P&R.

The worldwide recession perhaps? You know, that same thing that has seen thousands of business go bankrupt, millions of jobs being made redundant, hundreds of people forced to apply for one job.
Was the recession brought about by the RFL as well?
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#175 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

There are some people with genuine gripes that are upset about things and explain them well and don't expect people to agree their opinion, just want people to know that this is their reason why they're not happy. I'll put Robin Evans in that category. He's not happy that there's no P&R. He's not b*tching and moaning.

But Ian literally is looking as hard as he can to turn anything into a negative, connect everything together into a conspiracy, and basically would like th game to fail at the top to prove himself right. It really is sad that someone can let their bitterness overtake their chance if being happy. I see it too many times in life, not just in RL. These kind of people just aren't good people to be around. They can ruin any positive mood you're in by constantly attempting to bring you down to their level.

Wellsy with all respect you do not know me. Just because I like to have a moan about the game does not mean that I am not good to be around. The fact that your club benefited from a ridiculous merger does not mean I think you are a theif.

 

In your book by not agreeing with what you say I am not good to be around, I bet life is a laugh in your house.


"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#176 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

Why on Earth would you knowing want to be bitter?!

You've basically invented a situation in your head to justify your bitterness. That is extremely worrying. That's paranoia. That's a step towards mental health issues.

And you're still dismissing someone who disagrees with you because they're a SL club fan. What about those, like l'angelo, that disagree with you but don't support a SL side? What's your excuse for them?

Who does L'angelo support then cos it isn't Featherstone Rovers by is own admission.  So I have mental health issues do I?  Why do you think I don't come on here regular?  They only let me out one a month :D  :D :D  


"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#177 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

The worldwide recession perhaps? You know, that same thing that has seen thousands of business go bankrupt, millions of jobs being made redundant, hundreds of people forced to apply for one job.
Was the recession brought about by the RFL as well?

Did we not have a recession before when the yo-yo effect was in place. 

 

So let me get this right the yo-yo effect is the reason for finincial ruin during a recession but the recession is the reason for finincial ruin during no P&R.  Great argument that one.


"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#178 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

Wellsy with all respect you do not know me. Just because I like to have a moan about the game does not mean that I am not good to be around. The fact that your club benefited from a ridiculous merger does not mean I think you are a theif.

What I do and what my club do are completely seperate things, so you shouldn't. Yet because my club is in SL, you dismiss my opinion.

In your book by not agreeing with what you say I am not good to be around, I bet life is a laugh in your house.

No, people can and often do not agree with things I say. That isn't what makes them bad to be around.
It's your bitterness and paranoia that do that.
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#179 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:19 AM

Who does L'angelo support then cos it isn't Featherstone Rovers by is own admission. So I have mental health issues do I? Why do you think I don't come on here regular? They only let me out one a month :D :D :D

He doesn't support a SL club. I can tell you that.
And if you read properly, I said it was a step towards. Maybe it's that paranoia again that is making you think I'd say that?
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#180 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:25 AM

What I do and what my club do are completely seperate things, so you shouldn't. Yet because my club is in SL, you dismiss my opinion.

No, people can and often do not agree with things I say. That isn't what makes them bad to be around.
It's your bitterness and paranoia that do that.

But I only have paranoia, mental health issues resulting in me not being good to be around in your book because I don't agree with you.  People who I know don't view me this way, so it could be you that has the mental problem with sterotying people who don't agree with you. 


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