Jump to content


Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD - THE GRAND FINALS ISSUE - OUT 17 OCT OR DOWNLOAD IT NOW!
Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Comparision between our youngsters and southern hemispheres.


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#21 CGD

CGD
  • Coach
  • 932 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:30 AM

I agree with the opinion that anyone who opposes Inglis will probably lose. It's unfair to rate Watkins based on that alone. I remember when people used to compare Leon Pryce to Inglis.

barrowraiderskid,

Where does this idea of Inglis being a bad defender come from? I've read it a few times on here, but no where else. Maybe it's you each time, but you're wrong.

He's one of the better defenders from the backs and he reads play better than most. He came up with one if the best defensive plays of last season. Uate has a deadly step, but on that occasion, he only stepped into Inglis' massive frame dead. Inglis also ended up with the ball.

I know that's only one play, but it's one a poor defender would never make.

#22 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 3,118 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:32 AM

Agreed, Inglis is a solid defender as well as a devastating runner of the ball
Attacking Players have been passing the ball rather than take him on one on one at Fullback.


Edited by AndyCapp, 05 April 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#23 Harrigan

Harrigan
  • Coach
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

Just for Franksy,

 

Defensive comparison as a centre, 2012:

 

Watkins - Tackles 385, Missed 26, Percentage 94%

Goulding - Tackles 320, Missed 31, Percentage 91%

 

Defensive comparison as a full back, 2013:

 

Watkins - Tackles 71, Missed 7, Percentage 91%

Tomkins - Tackles 42, Missed 8, Percentage 84%

 

 

Your move Franksy ;)

 


rhinosbulldogs_zps04cf7e0a.jpg


#24 RidingPie

RidingPie
  • Coach
  • 1,223 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:05 PM

Just for Franksy,

 

Defensive comparison as a centre, 2012:

 

Watkins - Tackles 385, Missed 26, Percentage 94%

Goulding - Tackles 320, Missed 31, Percentage 91%

 

Defensive comparison as a full back, 2013:

 

Watkins - Tackles 71, Missed 7, Percentage 91%

Tomkins - Tackles 42, Missed 8, Percentage 84%

 

 

Your move Franksy ;)

 

You might notice I praised Watkins above (I'd definitely not Franksy he'd be ahead of Goulding for me... who is solid) but in your comparison with Tomkins you've missed three other essential stats:

 

Watkins - Tries 2 - Try Assists 1 - Tackle busts 27

Tomkins - Tries 10 - Try Assists 8 - tackle busts 36


Edited by RidingPie, 05 April 2013 - 12:10 PM.


#25 Harrigan

Harrigan
  • Coach
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:22 PM

You might notice I praised Watkins above (I'd definitely not Franksy he'd be ahead of Goulding for me... who is solid) but in your comparison with Tomkins you've missed three other essential stats:

Watkins - Tries 2 - Try Assists 1 - Tackle busts 27
Tomkins - Tries 10 - Try Assists 8 - tackle busts 36

I have said Tomkins is the best in the country too. Franksy said he would never have a weak defender in the England team though as they would be a liability. The whole thing about Watkins, from his point of view, is that he is a very bad defender. My comparisons were there to show him that he is in fact better than Goulding and when looking I noticed that he has been better than Sam this year too. Franksy wouldn't have Watkins in the international team though because he can't tackle apparently.

Edited by Harrigan, 05 April 2013 - 12:32 PM.

rhinosbulldogs_zps04cf7e0a.jpg


#26 RidingPie

RidingPie
  • Coach
  • 1,223 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:39 PM

Fair enough! I've always said to mum, with Tomkins at full back, in an average match he'll cost you 1 try, but be involved in at least 3.

 

I've been impressed with Watkins though.



#27 Damien

Damien
  • Coach
  • 78 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:09 PM

Stats taken in isolation are fairly meaningless and usually dont prove one thing or the other as there are so many variables involved. The ones on the Super League web site are certainly not ones to go by and are certainly not the same as coaches use. Players play in different teams with different attacking and defensive structures and have to play with either better or worse inside or outside defenders. With stats players also often get blamed for things that arent their fault as coaches will point out in video sessions etc. Also there are times when players dont even play in their position, for instance Goulding had several games last season where he played the majority of the match on the wing and had to swap and change positions due to injuries. You cant just ignore peoples judgment and say that a players is better or not based on stats.

 

Watkins has a lot of potential and is a damn fine player as a strike centre, in some ways a much better and more rounded Ryan Atkins, but he is far from good in all areas and I think that his defensive positioning, handling and decision making all need work. Whether he is good enough for international level yet I dont know but there is no English centre with the complete all round game. Watkins is a young player whose raw ability and talent is clear though and he could be the best English centre for some time if he can progress and develop an all round game. Goulding for me is technically the best English centre and has a very good all round game. He has great hands, good defence, hardly makes any mistakes and his decision making is nearly always spot on. The downside is that he lacks the strike and athleticism of a Watkins or Atkins.

 

As an England fan I think that it is great that we finally have a range of centres to choose from as opposed to just 2 or 3 that we had far over a decade.



#28 Leighton10

Leighton10
  • Coach
  • 119 posts

Posted 05 April 2013 - 02:22 PM

Watkins is a talent and I wouldn't worry about having him in the england team at all. Its havin the likes of ablett, jjb, and chase in the england team tht would worry me. Below average players gettin picked is the worry not young talents who have flair.

#29 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 3,118 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 06:59 AM

My move? Do you consider your point proven now by the inclusion of some isolated stats?

Watkins = luxury player.

By the way, I am not a Wigan fan.

Who do you follow Franksy, Warrington?

#30 Just Browny

Just Browny
  • Coach
  • 11,799 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:22 AM

Who do you follow Franksy, Warrington?

That would be a pretty hilarious conversion.

Welcome aboard, Hannibal.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#31 roughyedspud

roughyedspud
  • Coach
  • 3,864 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:06 PM

the biggests diffence between our youngster and theirs is....its very rare for their kids to hit the NRL before the age of21..they have the holden cup & NSW/QLD cup's as "finishing schools" before hitting the NRL......


where as we don't think twice about sticking a 18,19 year old into super league.....if you look at the england team from
the 2009 4nations..our halfbacks for the NZ game where 20 year old sam tomkins & 19 year old kyle eastmond :lol:

i bet we could name a england under 21's with 3-400 super league appearances between them..yet really struggle to name a
australian under 21's with 100 NRL between them..

OLDHAM RLFC
the 8TH most successful team in british RL


#32 Harrigan

Harrigan
  • Coach
  • 1,021 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 04:00 PM

the biggests diffence between our youngster and theirs is....its very rare for their kids to hit the NRL before the age of21..they have the holden cup & NSW/QLD cup's as "finishing schools" before hitting the NRL......


where as we don't think twice about sticking a 18,19 year old into super league.....if you look at the england team from
the 2009 4nations..our halfbacks for the NZ game where 20 year old sam tomkins & 19 year old kyle eastmond :lol:

i bet we could name a england under 21's with 3-400 super league appearances between them..yet really struggle to name a
australian under 21's with 100 NRL between them..


TBF, the games are harder to come by over there. The 100 game mark normally comes in your mid 20s!

rhinosbulldogs_zps04cf7e0a.jpg


#33 roughyedspud

roughyedspud
  • Coach
  • 3,864 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

i mean 100 games for the whole of the aussie under 21s..as a team....not 100 games per player

OLDHAM RLFC
the 8TH most successful team in british RL


#34 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 3,118 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

The cream of the crop come into the NRL at a young age just like any sport
The team from the 2012 Trans Tasman Test below

Age into the NRL
Slater 19 (Capped at 24)
Boyd 18 (Capped at 20)
Inglis 18 (Capped at 19)
J Morris 20 (Capped at 22)
B Morris 19 (Capped at 22)
Thurston 18 (Capped at 22)
Cronk 20 (Capped at 23)
Scott 18 (Capped at 24)
Smith 18 (Capped at 22)
Tamou 20 (Capped at 23)
Bird 17 (Capped at 22)
Gallen 18 (Capped at 26)
Myles 19 (Capped at 24)

Reserves
Farrah 19 (Capped at 25)
Hoffman 19 (Capped at 23)
Shillington 22(Capped at 25) Edited
Williams 19 (Capped at 19)

Then you have had players like..
Lockyer (Capped at 20 )
Fittler (Capped at 20)
Lyon (Capped at 19)

There are many more, the best players shine through at a young age, not many break into the big time past their
mid twenties.

Edited by AndyCapp, 07 April 2013 - 08:48 AM.


#35 roughyedspud

roughyedspud
  • Coach
  • 3,864 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:08 AM

yeah that the bloody test team mate.....the majority of the NRL players don't get regular NRL games till they are 21/22


look at jacob miller at wests...made his debut aged 18 a couple of seasons ago,was selected as a starting halfback this season aged 20....but was sent back to the NSW cup this week with west assistant coach saying..

he hoped Miller would come back stronger for the experience in the feeder system.


OLDHAM RLFC
the 8TH most successful team in british RL


#36 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 3,118 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:30 AM

yeah that the bloody test team mate.....the majority of the NRL players don't get regular NRL games till they are 21/22


look at jacob miller at wests...made his debut aged 18 a couple of seasons ago,was selected as a starting halfback this season aged 20....but was sent back to the NSW cup this week with west assistant coach saying..

If they are good enough they will get a run in the NRL.
Its not likely that a younger player will take a better NRL players spot is it.
You have to earn your place in any Sport.
Plenty of players get dropped to the lower comps (even top end players) if they are not performing at the top Grade, that's just natural.

#37 CGD

CGD
  • Coach
  • 932 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:16 AM

Is that right about Shillo's debut, Andy?

Shillo himself has come out this week saying he made his debut at 22, as teammate Jarrod Croker plays his 100th game in a few mins at the same age.

#38 boxhead

boxhead
  • Coach
  • 3,118 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

Is that right about Shillo's debut, Andy?

Shillo himself has come out this week saying he made his debut at 22, as teammate Jarrod Croker plays his 100th game in a few mins at the same age.

I only broke it down by whole years CGD. (too lazy to do it by months)

Shillingtons first game was Aug 7th 2005 for the Roosters and he was born 24 June 1983 so you are correct 22 years of age.

Edited by AndyCapp, 07 April 2013 - 08:47 AM.


#39 CGD

CGD
  • Coach
  • 932 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

I was just being pedantic so I could mention Croker's milestone at such a young age.

#40 The Big Gun

The Big Gun
  • Coach
  • 434 posts

Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:07 AM

Another try for George Burgess today - I don't think the Kiwis or Aussies have a young forward as good as him.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users