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RIP Hull KR?


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#241 keighley

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:32 PM

1. I trust you, but you trust me that it's no good having any fans if you run at a loss.

2. Then my question of deluded pom is one you may care to answer. How does taking £4,000,000 of wages out of Superleague by dropping the cap drastically benefit Superleague.

3. Please explain how?

Please especially explain how Keighley, Barrow Sheffield or Doncaster will get 7,000 crowds???

 1. the fact that they were denied SL money, extra gate revenue and possible investor money wouls have contributed substantially to the losses.

 

2 If 4,000,000 is removed from expednitures then obvioulsy it will allow clubs to make ends meet easier than if they have to come up with the 4 mill.

 

3. Keighley inceased their gates from 500 to 4,700. Sheffield have gone fron 500 to 1200 and, in their previous incarnation had over 4,000 averages. if the new Don Valley stadium comes off then hey.  Doncaster, in their one distastrous season in the top tier had over 3,000. They used to average 250. Now they are in the keepmoat. If they can build for the future their attendnces should increase. Barrow have had gates ranging fom the hundreds to several thousand. i seem to remember 14,000 when Keith Jarrett made his debut for them.

 

The true answer is that I don't exactly know how they will get 7,000. Attendances fluctuate. Wakefield from 1000 to 8,000, Wigan from 4,000 to 14,000, the famous Bulls from 250 to 15,000 and all stops in between. What did Catalans average before SL ?  Give them a chance and see what they can do. How are Salford going to get to 7,000. they havn't averaged thAt since the 1960s but they might now their circumtances are what they are. They have had several attendances in the 2,000 range this season but you couldn't rule out th effects of a new stadium and new cashed up ambitious owners.

 

London are touted for SL, as are Toulouse ( do they average 7,000 ). No they are works in progress and so would those othwer teams you so love to run down



#242 hindle xiii

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:36 PM

RIP Hull KR? RIP This thread more like. Why do Parky and keighley poison each thread they stamp all over?


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#243 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

Sorry - took the rant out, I too think the clubs and fans are just as much to blame as the RFL but not having a go at anyone.

You ask "how has a game that we used to deride for being watched by "two men and a dog" built itself such a following that the top clubs attract crowds that regularly outnumber those at comparable RL games?"

Well in the old days two men and a dog watched RU amateur games played on parks particularly Richmond Park and Saracens home venue I believe.

Now they play fully professional in modern stadia and the clubs are largely competitive, they have attracted tens of thousands of new fans. It seems to me we can deduce that people will watch professional Rugby designed to attract the crowds, and designed to cater for them.

I don't see any difference when we went professional. Our clubs who have gone fully pro, improved their stadiums, have made an effort to put on a show, and are competing, have equally put on thousands of fans. Maybe Wigan and Leeds were already doing this before 1996, but Wire, Catalans, Bradford, Saints, Hull followed.

So I don't see a great difference. Sure only 2000 wanted to watch Salford, but only 2,000 wanted to watch Leeds Carnegie.

The list above for RL includes seven clubs and you can't make a league out of that and I think we need to try to get more clubs up to scratch.

I also think that Union who have a much bigger player base stop at 12 clubs, and don't look to be all inclusive for a reason. Maybe it's selfish? Maybe they felt a limited elite league was the best model for attracting the most fans and sponsors?

Maybe the difference is they have a whole new audience to go at whereas we as a semi pro game in 1996 already had an audience and have felt that we have to cater to the fans needs and wishes otherwise all would be lost. Many of those needs and wishes are stuck in the past.

But we are now losing it and if the model both codes seemingly throw up is to have a limited size league, with quality and competitiveness and get as many paying fans watching that, we may be OK.

But to do that means creating a Superlegue that is first and foremost financially stable, secondly is stable in terms of the clubs in it, and thirdly looks to attract every RL fan new and old to the selected clubs.

I think that has actually been going on for many years in our game, but not in any sort of a structured way. Part manipulation (cut P & R off), part left to chance (tout clubs to rich owners). The time may come when those who run the game will just say that's it. These are the clubs for Superleague until we say otherwise, and these clubs will get everything.

 

 

Thanks.

 

FWIW I agree with pretty much everything that you say there. I suppose the advantage that RU has had so far is that real professionalism is new in their sport, leaving them to be much more imaginative from the start. If only RL could recruit a blue-sky thinker to its heirarchy.


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#244 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:39 PM

Brighouse - which I specifically mentioned - is on the Calder...

 

And its about 5 miles from Odsal.  Downhill all the way, the way valleys do.

 

And the family who sit in front of me at Odsal live in or near Brighouse.

 

As do a number of other Bulls fans I know, including several who were on the Bullbuilder board.

 

And places like Cleackheaton are on rivers that flow down into the Calder. Indeed, one of the sources of that river, is just over the back of the stadium.  Rivers flow down valleys?

 

So, I don't understand your point.

 

 

 

How can anyone ever accuse RL of being parochial?

 

 

 

:( :(


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#245 gingerjon

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 03:46 PM

RIP Hull KR? RIP This thread more like. Why do Parky and keighley poison each thread they stamp all over?

I find the ignore button very useful.


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#246 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 04:02 PM

Correct but if you said "Calder Valley in the Halifax area, then most, if not all would think you was talking about The Calder Valley between Todmorden and Mytholmroyd. Brighouse didnt used to be in the "Calder Valley" and think it was sometime in the 80s it got brought in. However you are correct in that it is in the Calder Valley constituency. A couple of friends who I played Rugby with are from the Brighouse/Hipperholme area and they would never say that Brighouse is in the Calder Valley as such. More that Brighouse is a town that has the River Calder going through it.

Good God - what's the title of this thread again?
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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The real Mick Gledhill is what you see on here, a Bradford fan ........, but deep down knows that Bradford are just not good enough to challenge the likes of Leeds & St Helens.


#247 jpmc

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:09 PM

Thanks.
 
FWIW I agree with pretty much everything that you say there. I suppose the advantage that RU has had so far is that real professionalism is new in their sport, leaving them to be much more imaginative from the start. If only RL could recruit a blue-sky thinker to its heirarchy.

I would also say they are run by a proper and strong 'governing body' which makes the decisions, unlike rl which has a seriously weak governing body which we are again witnessing with the continuing debacle over the DR policy.

#248 The Parksider

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:32 PM

RIP Hull KR? RIP This thread more like. Why do Parky and keighley poison each thread they stamp all over?

We're having a discussion. Why do you have to act like this?

If we're doing anything wrong then report it.

I think it's poison when you can't live and let live.

As Gingerjon says use the ignore button, I do.

Edited by The Parksider, 16 April 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#249 The Parksider

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

Thanks.
 
FWIW I agree with pretty much everything that you say there. I suppose the advantage that RU has had so far is that real professionalism is new in their sport, leaving them to be much more imaginative from the start. If only RL could recruit a blue-sky thinker to its heirarchy.

No problem Johnny, I agree with you!

#250 The Parksider

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

double

Edited by The Parksider, 16 April 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#251 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:38 PM

  

They are run by several governing bodies but run very very well indeed

RFU England/Championship/Everything else
Premiership Rugby
European Rugby
International Rugby Board

CM

 

 

 

I suppose RU just attracts people of greater intelligence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:unsure:


Edited by Blind side johnny, 16 April 2013 - 06:39 PM.

Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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#252 The Parksider

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 06:41 PM

The true answer is that I don't exactly know how they will get 7,000.

Thanks for the truth!!

Thanks also for your persistent optimism.

According to Hindle X111 we are "poison"!!!!!!

#253 keighley

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

Thanks for the truth!!

Thanks also for your persistent optimism.

According to Hindle X111 we are "poison"!!!!!!

 

That is the truth, but also true is the fact that many teams have upped their attendances as i quoted and it is also true that, given the right circumstances they can up them further. As we know Halifax have previous convictions in the 7,000 range, Barrow have the Furness peninsula to themselves and with a new ground,on field success, and investment, and the fact that the shipyards still provide decent employment, I see no reason why they could not up their attendances.

 

Sheffield is a work in progress, but seem to have cracked to 1200 barrier recently and with further success, a new stadium and the continued decline of the Sheffield soccer teams, who knows.. Featherstone have worked wonders so far from their CC1 days. The truth is I just don't know but equally neither do you. there are other examples but I don't want to go on too long.

 

It seems to me though that tere are many positive looking stories whereby attendances are slowly inching up as opposed to the odd disaster as at the Broncos. I am an optomist but not I hope a cockeyed one. You should try it sometime.

 

You and I are at odds on many points and both seem to be stubborn Yorkshireman with a good knowldgw of the game at out disposal and the cillision in arguments is inevitable. Poison,. well that's a strong word. Monopolising of threads, well i guess we could both plead guilty to that but it's up to the others to knock us off our perch with their arguments and points of view.

 

In my opinion we provoke a wide range of views, usually opposing, on a range of RL issues and that, to me, is what this board is about.

 

If neither of us defended out corner then one view would prevail by default and the points made would be weaker for it.



#254 zorquif

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Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

Go on then CM  



#255 The Parksider

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 06:18 AM

That is the truth, but also true is the fact that many teams have upped their attendances as i quoted and it is also true that, given the right circumstances they can up them further. As we know Halifax have previous convictions in the 7,000 range, Barrow have the Furness peninsula to themselves,I see no reason why they could not up their attendances. Sheffield is a work in progress, but seem to have cracked to 1200 barrier recently and with further success, a new stadium and the continued decline of the Sheffield soccer teams, who knows.. Featherstone have worked wonders so far from their CC1 days. I am an optomist but not I hope a cockeyed one. You should try it sometime?
 
You and I are at odds on many points and both seem to be stubborn Yorkshireman with a good knowldgw of the game at out disposal and the cillision in arguments is inevitable. Poison,. well that's a strong word. Monopolising of threads, well i guess we could both plead guilty to that?

1. It's true clubs draw some great crowds, compared with many in the past and the level of support for the game is arguably as good as it's ever been. For a Castleford to be on over a 7,000 average and HKR to be on over 8,000 is something that back in the pre-SL days, if a crystal ball had revealed those figures to their fans as future attendances they'd be very happy. If you then said that their clubs would be facing a slide to deaths door on those figures they'd be severely perplexed.

That's where we are sadly and the idea (a good one) that we drop the salary cap to something sixteen clubs can afford and maybe allocate SKY money according to need is supremely well intentioned.

The simple hurdle is the effect on the game of removing £millions of pounds worth of wages the top clubs can afford to save the bottom clubs. Ian Millward said the majority of clubs pay full cap and Cas are left behind. Bring the bar down just for Cas or HKR and what would happen. Ian Millward again said that Chase's move to Illawara was just another NRL move for the best in England and this would go on. Surely dragging the cap down would make a trickle and exodus?

2. I'm so proud to be a part of the "Poison Brothers" bringing our act to a keyboard near you. It's a shame that some individuals can't hold their manners and mean spirits. I love these types of threads and stay out of most threads not about the history and development of the game. I try to be logical in argument and courteous in manners but apparently to Hindle it's "poison".

Maybe I post too much and maybe it's vacuous rubbish, but it's a bit rich when Hindle's posts number thousands more than mine, perhaps they are all literary masterpieces and perceptive gems!!!!

As the mod and other posters are saying press the darn ignore button for those you can't get on with.

#256 hindle xiii

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:33 AM

No most of my posts are guff too, short guff though. ;)

 

Still, I think I made Parky and keighley have a kiss and cuddle. My plan worked!

 

Just bear in mind a lot of the time you two just argue and go round in circles, usually diluting a thread or taking it off-topic, my only gripe is people read these threads so any to-ing and fro-ing between two parties can put others off contributing.

 

Heck even another two posters pedantry of the Calder valley added to it. We all want discussion and debate, but not the same agendas shouting over others.

 

And "poison" was harsh.

 

That is all.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#257 Old Frightful

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:38 AM

No most of my posts are guff too, short guff though. ;)

 

Still, I think I made Parky and keighley have a kiss and cuddle. My plan worked!

 

Just bear in mind a lot of the time you two just argue and go round in circles, usually diluting a thread or taking it off-topic, my only gripe is people read these threads so any to-ing and fro-ing between two parties can put others off contributing.

 

Heck even another two posters pedantry of the Calder valley added to it. We all want discussion and debate, but not the same agendas shouting over others.

 

And "poison" was harsh.

 

That is all.

Getting some practice in for a future role? :huh:


          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#258 hindle xiii

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:43 AM

Getting some practice in for a future role? :huh:

Not at all, I actually like this place. I don't remember if I've reported anyone, nor do I ignore, I'd rather say "look, have a word" and crack on.

 

I'm no moral authority, and if someone wants to tell me to shut up I will.

 

Now if you don't mind I'm going to curl back up in my basket at the bottom of Webby's bed.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#259 The Parksider

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:51 AM

No most of my posts are guff too, short guff though. ;)
 
Still, I think I made Parky and keighley have a kiss and cuddle. My plan worked!

I reserve the right to post long guff.

The kiss and cuddle was awful, he hadn't shaved.

#260 hindle xiii

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 07:56 AM

I reserve the right to post long guff.

The kiss and cuddle was awful, he hadn't shaved.

:D You two loved it really. Now play nicely or I'll slipper your legs again!

 

Nah, seriously though, too often on here serious issues or talking points become petty point scoring pedantry between posters IMO.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.





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