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Another one in the eye for the Amateur game


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#1 LordCharles

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:21 PM

Unacceptable

 

www.nwc13-15arl.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=30156

 

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#2 del capo

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

The next CB meeting is on 17/4 .

 

The issues being apparently forced by these two Pro clubs will undoubtedly be raised then.The RFL have been asked more than once if its Performance Department is capable of control within its remit .It failed significantly last year when advice on  U 23's reserves etc was ignored........

 

This could be a tipping point. One day someone in the Pro game may actually realize that without  community youth sides at these incredibly important age groups this game will be dead in 10 years.......

 

I expect Stuart Prior will have many more friends than usual at that  CB meeting, and Jon Roberts and BJ will be in a hard place , unless of course some sense is instilled somewhere before then.............



#3 Gonch

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 09:22 AM

Here here Del capo we have significant Issues in Cumbria with the RFL scholarship and its real smoke and mirrors constantly which is destroying us from the inside, they are using the divide and conquer tactics, the only problem is there will be nothing left to conquer soon

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."


#4 LordCharles

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 09:40 AM

The next CB meeting is on 17/4 .

 

The issues being apparently forced by these two Pro clubs will undoubtedly be raised then.The RFL have been asked more than once if its Performance Department is capable of control within its remit .It failed significantly last year when advice on  U 23's reserves etc was ignored........

 

This could be a tipping point. One day someone in the Pro game may actually realize that without  community youth sides at these incredibly important age groups this game will be dead in 10 years.......

 

I expect Stuart Prior will have many more friends than usual at that  CB meeting, and Jon Roberts and BJ will be in a hard place , unless of course some sense is instilled somewhere before then.............

 

 

Del Capo..........I applaud your optimism, but the RFL and Pro Clubs have the upper hand on many fronts, control certain environments openly or behind closed doors and will just use the same spin as always and carry on regardless.

 

I can see some significant fallout from all of this and potentially the game becoming divided once more, but you are deluding yourself if you think seats on the CB are worth much, you wait and see, when it comes down to it the only option will be to tell them to shove it, because any other option will be in their favour.

 

Hope I am wrong, but chances are I won't be.


Edited by LordCharles, 06 April 2013 - 09:45 AM.


#5 nec

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:51 PM

Am I missing something, young players good enough to be on the radar of pro sides should be getting the best coaching possible and playing at the highest level possible, that way they can beat the antipodeans when they reach adulthood. Is it such a big deal that they miss a game for their local junior club, can't they use that as a selling point (look how many of our lads get picked for...) and back-fill with squad members that usually miss out?

Bigger picture?
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#6 Marauder

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:05 PM

Am I missing something, young players good enough to be on the radar of pro sides should be getting the best coaching possible and playing at the highest level possible, that way they can beat the antipodeans when they reach adulthood. Is it such a big deal that they miss a game for their local junior club, can't they use that as a selling point (look how many of our lads get picked for...) and back-fill with squad members that usually miss out?

Bigger picture?

Your missing the bigger picture

 

Most junior teams work with a small squad, lets say 15 on average, the local pro club comes along and takes 5 or 6 of the 15, that leaves 9 or 10 players who will not be getting a game, if you've not noticed aged grouped rugby league in the last two years have lost up to a quarter of it's junior sides (according to some reports on here)

 

If we keep losing teams at this rate eventually we will not be producing any players for the amateur game never mind elite ones for the pro game.


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#7 nec

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

Would it not make sense for these clubs with tiny squads to merge or if they are too far apart make an accommodation to play 9-a-side. The kids and the future of the sport are the most important things surely. How do the Aussies deal with this issue, my guess is that all junior sides are subservient to the local senior side. We need to take decisions that drive the top level of the game forward.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#8 bazza_merged

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 11:54 PM

How do the Aussies deal with this issue, my guess is that all junior sides are subservient to the local senior side. We need to take decisions that drive the top level of the game forward.

 

I Sydney at least, the local pro team get rep teams around U15 age where they play 10 or so games a season usually near the start of the year

The local junior teams will have to make up their squad for any missing players

It is usually around this age that junior team numbers start to drop off due to a combination of the better players going off to the rep teams, injuries and the joys of teenage life



#9 LordCharles

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:22 AM

"Better coaching".........that one always makes me smile.

#10 TaxiEgg

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:17 PM

Well Peter with all the information available with the clear breach of community board policy by the performance department ,we wait with baited breath to see how much teeth the community board actually has ,time to earn some stripes for the community clubs.



#11 nec

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

I'm sure the country's best youth football coaches are at Carshalton Harriers U11's rather than working with QPR or Manchester United as well.

 

Why on earth would it make sense to concentrate the best players and best coaches with the professional clubs, how stupid of me...


Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#12 Wilber

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:15 PM

The whole scholarship system needs to be removed full stop. The Game has just suffered a massive shift in removing under 20's and moving Under 18's to Under 19's and the pro game calling for players to return at 17 to the community Game to gain more experience and game time as they cant get it at Under 19's?

So they try to control at 15 & 16, sign them at 16 then want to send them back until they are 18 and still have no genuine outlet for players above 20 who cant be duel reg?

Then again it must work as the best half back the Scholarship /elite system has produced in the last 13 years is Rangi Chase!! Priceless. Alternatively by comparison best half back BARLA and volunteer coaches produced, Andy Gregory sorry there is no comparison

Looking forward to sitting in my seat while I gain new friends on the Community Board however this one is not hard to support!

Solution, go away until they are 18 years old and we will send them to you, bring back your A teams as that will cost the same as under 19's and educate our coaches rather than educating the children.

#13 LordCharles

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:42 PM

The whole scholarship system needs to be removed full stop. The Game has just suffered a massive shift in removing under 20's and moving Under 18's to Under 19's and the pro game calling for players to return at 17 to the community Game to gain more experience and game time as they cant get it at Under 19's?

So they try to control at 15 & 16, sign them at 16 then want to send them back until they are 18 and still have no genuine outlet for players above 20 who cant be duel reg?

Then again it must work as the best half back the Scholarship /elite system has produced in the last 13 years is Rangi Chase!! Priceless. Alternatively by comparison best half back BARLA and volunteer coaches produced, Andy Gregory sorry there is no comparison

Looking forward to sitting in my seat while I gain new friends on the Community Board however this one is not hard to support!

Solution, go away until they are 18 years old and we will send them to you, bring back your A teams as that will cost the same as under 19's and educate our coaches rather than educating the children.

What he said, Bravo that man.

Edited by LordCharles, 09 April 2013 - 09:42 PM.


#14 LordCharles

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:45 PM

I'm sure the country's best youth football coaches are at Carshalton Harriers U11's rather than working with QPR or Manchester United as well.
 
Why on earth would it make sense to concentrate the best players and best coaches with the professional clubs, how stupid of me...

Methinks somebody has a bit to learn regarding this subject.

#15 LordCharles

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

Well Peter with all the information available with the clear breach of community board policy by the performance department ,we wait with baited breath to see how much teeth the community board actually has ,time to earn some stripes for the community clubs.

Would'nt hold your breath on this Taxi, plenty of talk but lets just see how this lot can walk!

#16 nec

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:33 PM


Methinks somebody has a bit to learn regarding this subject.

Methinks eh? 0So explain to me how the best coaches at that age group are all working unpaid for amateur clubs whilst obviously worse coaches are employed by pro clubs?
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#17 TaxiEgg

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

Methinks eh? 0So explain to me how the best coaches at that age group are all working unpaid for amateur clubs whilst obviously worse coaches are employed by pro clubs?Y

 

Oh dear , never heard of jobs for the boys . the door closes for the amateur coach no pathway .


Edited by TaxiEgg, 10 April 2013 - 09:15 PM.


#18 LordCharles

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

Oh dear , never heard of jobs for the boys . the door closes for the amateur coach no pathway .

Correct

#19 nec

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

So your claim is that professional organisations are ignoring the best man for the job at interview to keep an under-performing mate of the coach/chairman in place. It is possible that the club decides that an applicant doesn't give the image they want. It's very interesting to compare the rl coaches with those the RFU and local union clubs send in to schools, we need to sharpen our act if we are going to be taken seriously by pe staff. If there are excellent amateur coaches that fulfil this criteria they should be employed at pro clubs, if the clubs ignore great candidates then I agree there is an argument for changing the rules and prioritising the amateur side. All that is really important though is getting the best coaches in front of our top kids and having them play each other to have the most challenging competition possible to sharpen them for their future career. I don't care which team does that, the amateur side I am involved with would be delighted if one of our players was picked up by pro's as it would help our ongoing recruitment - that would be the same for our juniors.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#20 Gonch

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

There's a bit of blind loyalty to the professional body here. Some people do not realise that there are some excellent coaches in the amateur game, here in Cumbria we have the likes of peter smith, john brocklebank, Ian rooney, Steve maguire, gary murdock,  cresta, Daz carter, Gary Broadbent etc etc at amateur clubs  and It is good to see players prospering in the environments that  these coaches have created, I know of several players who have blossomed under these coaches after leaving RFL programs e.g. Karl dixon at brow, nathan lucock at glasson, james mcdonald at egremont sam forrester at maryport and many more. What people need to realise is that lads need as much playing time as possible  in order to learn  a variety of different things to help them grow. Learning from experience is the greatest gift we can give these kids and the current adoption of a set of coaching criteria which is a hangover from the david waite rubbish will just leave us with a set of players who cant think for themselves.

 

I have personal experience of this coaching on the RFLs program for a number of years but eventually you get a set of training plans to implement which basically turns you into an implementer of other peoples ideas. This was the main reason I left the RFL program, and by the way I have learned more from the like of Steve Maguire and other local coaches than I ever learned at coach education sessions. In order for us to progress at the top we need bottom up solutions.

 

1. Get more kids playing from 6 upwards the wider the base the more players with potential to become the next Ellery Hanley/Andy Gregory etc and let them play the game without over coaching them

2. More good coaches, focus efforts on retaining the knowledge and experience of people in the game encouraging people to volunteer and supporting them to achieve their goals, the more good coaches the more players will enjoy playing and the more people stay in the game.

3. Removing barriers  to kids playing, make every effort to get meaningful games/leagues set up.

4. Get rid of the BARLA/NCL/RFL barriers because the infighting is killing us, its the players that suffer and any coach worth his salt would realise that they are the most important things in our game.

5.Dont ignore the current bases, the game isn't rosy in the heartlands and if it starts to wane in these areas then the game as a whole is FUBAR.

6.Removal of scholarship set ups until under 18's. Still retain training camps, representative rugby etc etc so players have a goal to say play for their region

 

I believe one of the major differences is that amateur coaches do it for the love of the game, it certainly is for me, and one of the greatest rewards as a coach you can get is your players being signed by a pro club or getting GB honours. The guys who do it as a job will do anything to protect their way of life and as such may not have the best interests of all of the players at heart, its Human nature to protect your own way of life. Some of us are fortunate to have a good day job which affords us the luxury of doing coaching for enjoyment whereas others may not have the nouse to do anything else.

 

All in all we are not in terminal decline but we need to recognise that we need more players in the game, even if these players do not carry on playing they will become the next generation of rugby league fans to support the game. We cannot carry on producing robots as the aussies have more robots than us and unless we encourage innovation we will not have a chance of beating them.

 

JUst my opinion of the pathway at the moment!!

 

peace out


Edited by Gonch, 11 April 2013 - 09:38 PM.

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."





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