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our international team almost 20 years on

gb94 v eng2013

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#61 Futtocks

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:37 PM

For an example of Hall breaking tackles (and more) ask Billy Slater! The fact that a lot of his tries are over a shorter distance than Offiah is Leeds using his strength in the most effective manner. World's best Winger? Well everyone's got their own criteria and personal favourites, but he's up there with the best.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#62 boxhead

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:38 PM

Who's a better winger than Hall? And there isn't much point in debating speeds of both players unless they both have recorded 100m times.

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests
Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.
Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

#63 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

Shock horror,Aussie not rating English player.
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#64 boxhead

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:50 PM

For an example of Hall breaking tackles (and more) ask Billy Slater! The fact that a lot of his tries are over a shorter distance than Offiah is Leeds using his strength in the most effective manner. World's best Winger? Well everyone's got their own criteria and personal favourites, but he's up there with the best.

I am missing something in the translation Mate.

With the WBW Worlds Best Winger thing? that's an embarrassing title, well it would be in Australia.
If Thurston was called WBHB by his team mates he would tell them to get the .... out of there.
Plenty of Players are the best in the game at any given point, that point changes all of the time.
Being the best for a long period earns the respect and title of being the Worlds best.

Edited by AndyCapp, 09 April 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#65 Futtocks

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:53 PM


I am missing something in the translation Mate.


It's in English, if that helps. ;) Maybe I could find a translation here.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#66 boxhead

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

Shock horror,Aussie not rating English player.

I rate plenty of English players Terry.
I rate Gareth Widdop big time.
I rate Sam Burgess, more so if he lost his ugly side to his game.
Graham is a fantastic player
Ellis did well in his time at the Tigers, he got praised above and beyond what he did but that's ok, he was a novelty.
One of the few players that went backwards at Test level after being the "Star" in his team in the NRL.
I have no issue with English players, I still do not realize what Ryan Hall has that makes him special, he is a big lad that runs at the line.
Thats great.

#67 boxhead

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

It's in English, if that helps. ;) Maybe I could find a translation here.

Ok
I get what you are saying.
I do not Rate Ryan Hall more than the average Club Winger, just my opinion.

Edited by AndyCapp, 09 April 2013 - 01:03 PM.


#68 keighley

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:22 PM

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests
Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.
Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

 

And England do not have a world class centre or halfback. How do you think Hall would do of he were playing in the Australian or even NZ international team.? To have scored tries against Australia in both the last four nations games, both of whixh needed some world class finishing is testamanet to his ability. If he were in a team of australia's class, I think he would be even mnolre exceptional.



#69 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:48 PM

I rate plenty of English players Terry.
I rate Gareth Widdop big time.
I rate Sam Burgess, more so if he lost his ugly side to his game.
Graham is a fantastic player
Ellis did well in his time at the Tigers, he got praised above and beyond what he did but that's ok, he was a novelty.
One of the few players that went backwards at Test level after being the "Star" in his team in the NRL.
I have no issue with English players, I still do not realize what Ryan Hall has that makes him special, he is a big lad that runs at the line.
Thats great.

So you only rate them when they play in the NRL.Again,shock horror.
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#70 Chariots

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

Offiah was world class

Also someone put that his defence was weak, true he didnt make a lot of tackles but not many people go tround him either

In fact at test level his defence was good

Its a mark of how good he was that people continually bring up one off occasions when some one caught him or he got tackled

Watch the videos again, he was class

Edited by Chariots, 09 April 2013 - 01:55 PM.


#71 Dave T

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests
Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.
Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

Were Morris and Yow Yeh's tries against nations who are better than the Aussies?



#72 Maximus Decimus

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:49 PM

Offiah was probably the most exciting player of my lifetime. However, I seriously doubt the impact he would have on the game today. It has changed so much. When Offiah scored his 45 tries in a single season, on average there was just over 42 points a game scored in the top division.

Since the start of Super League only two players (Vainakolo and Charnley) has topped the try scoring charts with more than 30 tries in a season. Most end somewhere in the 20's and have even been under 20. This is made all the more remarkable since there are now on average more points scored per game, 53 being last season's total. Therefore, if Offiah played today and he took the same percentage of points as he did, he would have ended the year on 56 tries!

He was good but I think it suggests that the game has changed too. Teams certainly seem to ship it out to the wing less often than they used to and defences have inevitably become better and more structured.

I don't think it is just age that accounts for him moving from easily more than a try a game to less than 1 in 2 in his later years.

Edited by Maximus Decimus, 09 April 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#73 Ant

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:58 PM

The quality of his centre partners dropped - as he himself admits had much to do with his scoring success

#74 RSN

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:58 PM

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests
Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.
Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

Right he's played 6 games against Aus v Kiwis let's take a look at those results and how many tries Ryan Hall was involved in.

England lost 26 - 16 v Aus Hall 0/3
England won 20 - 12 v NZ Hall 0/3
England lost 46 - 16 v Aus Hall 0/3

This is in 09 when hall was not considered anywhere near the world's best player to be fair.

Hall didn't play against Aus/Kiwis in 2010.

2011 4N

England lost 36 - 20 to Aus Hall 2/4
England Won 20 - 12 against NZ hall 1/5
England Lost 30 - 8 against Aus hall 1/1

Right so most of the time Hall plays he has been on the losing side. Nothing to do with his ability just due to being in a worse side. This decade hall has scored 40% of England's tries against Aus/Kiwis, that's not a bad record. No other player will have a record like this.

He also scored twice against Aus opposition in WCC, but your bias will say these shouldnt count as they were WCC.

Also Halls tries were class in his games against Aus, they were world class. He has proven himself against the world's best in the last 3 years and can finish better than any Aussie. Just because he's not Australian or play in the NRL doesn't mean he can't be the best in the world in his position.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 09 April 2013 - 04:59 PM.


#75 thirteenthman

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:08 PM

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests
Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.
Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

 

I'll agree that Brett Morris is a good player, but Yow Yeh is nothing more than a good club man, and Manu Vatuvei, someone I always enjoy watching, can still be a bit of a liability in defence. Classing anyone as 'worlds best' is just a matter of opinion anyway, but I'd say Ryan Hall is certainly one of the best at the moment.



#76 Dave T

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:19 PM

Offiah was probably the most exciting player of my lifetime. However, I seriously doubt the impact he would have on the game today. It has changed so much. When Offiah scored his 45 tries in a single season, on average there was just over 42 points a game scored in the top division.

Since the start of Super League only two players (Vainakolo and Charnley) has topped the try scoring charts with more than 30 tries in a season. Most end somewhere in the 20's and have even been under 20. This is made all the more remarkable since there are now on average more points scored per game, 53 being last season's total. Therefore, if Offiah played today and he took the same percentage of points as he did, he would have ended the year on 56 tries!

He was good but I think it suggests that the game has changed too. Teams certainly seem to ship it out to the wing less often than they used to and defences have inevitably become better and more structured.

I don't think it is just age that accounts for him moving from easily more than a try a game to less than 1 in 2 in his later years.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with that MD.

 

Looking back at a couple of years where Offiah played for Wigan:

 

91-92 - he scored 30 tries in 15 games - although it should be noted he scored 15 of those in two games!

92-93 - 30 tries in 38 games

93-94 - 35 in 34

94-95 - 53 in 38

 

The above was him playing in a very strong team - whilst there a couple of freak efforts in there - 94/95 for example - in general he scored just over a try a game. 

 

Josh Charnley has a try a game (85 tries in 84 games)

Joel Monaghan at Wire is almost at the level in the Uk game

Vainikolo finished his Bulls career with 150 tries in the same number of games

 

I think Offiah would have a better record than any of these players - I would still expect him to be bagging over 30 tries a year with fewer games, providing he was in the right teams.



#77 bedlam breakout

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

I'm not 100% sure I agree with that MD.

 

Looking back at a couple of years where Offiah played for Wigan:

 

91-92 - he scored 30 tries in 15 games - although it should be noted he scored 15 of those in two games!

92-93 - 30 tries in 38 games

93-94 - 35 in 34

94-95 - 53 in 38

 

The above was him playing in a very strong team - whilst there a couple of freak efforts in there - 94/95 for example - in general he scored just over a try a game. 

 

Josh Charnley has a try a game (85 tries in 84 games)

Joel Monaghan at Wire is almost at the level in the Uk game

Vainikolo finished his Bulls career with 150 tries in the same number of games

 

I think Offiah would have a better record than any of these players - I would still expect him to be bagging over 30 tries a year with fewer games, providing he was in the right teams.

yes your spot on with those comments, seem to remember wingers coming in and "looking for work" more in the offiah days, even in their own half, knowing they had the speed advantage on tired forwards legs. does that happen as much now?


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#78 Dave T

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:23 PM

yes your spot on with those comments, seem to remember wingers coming in and "looking for work" more in the offiah days, even in their own half, knowing they had the speed advantage on tired forwards legs. does that happen as much now?

Wingers still do a lot of work - especially coming away from their own line - a little like Offiah when he scored his try in the Wembley final v Leeds.



#79 superten

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:30 AM

I never rated Powell as more than a solid centre yet he's one of GB's most capped players.

powell was an unsung hero he was what was needed a great tackler brilliant in defence which we needed when playing the aussies.


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#80 deluded pom?

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 07:32 AM

powell was an unsung hero he was what was needed a great tackler brilliant in defence which we needed when playing the aussies.

 

Maybe he was just the best of a bad bunch at the time.


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