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Thatcher - Has passed away.


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#281 Phil

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:03 PM

Yeah.  I did.  I didn't voluntarily join a union until I trained as a teacher and the only reason I joined then was because it was prudent to do so for legal backup in case of a false accusation from a child or parent.  That I have such freedom is thanks to Thatcher.

 

 

so you joined for the benefits they negotiated?

 

even though you took no part in them, well done you.


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#282 Padge

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:07 PM

The closed shop I am talking about is that which denies your democratic right NOT to be a member of a union.

What about the democratic right to not belong to the Law Society or the BMA, why were these unions not treated the same?

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#283 chuffer

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:07 PM

.


Edited by chuffer, 10 April 2013 - 09:08 PM.


#284 Saintslass

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:17 PM

so you joined for the benefits they negotiated?

 

even though you took no part in them, well done you.

No.  I joined because teachers are vulnerable to false accusations.  Had they not been, I wouldn't have joined.  As it was I chose the least aggressive of the options, which is tough going in the teaching profession.



#285 Saintslass

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:18 PM

What about the democratic right to not belong to the Law Society or the BMA, why were these unions not treated the same?

I said why in an earlier post.



#286 Saintslass

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:19 PM

in what way?

It is infringing upon my freedom of choice.



#287 Saintslass

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

Care in the community was not a tory policy. I suggest you read the Jay report, virtually my bible when I was doing my psychiatric nurse training . Care in the community's purpose was to take people out of psychiatric hospitals and hospitals for the 'mentally handicapped'. This had to be properly resourced. The Thatcher government saw it as a way to save money, closed down the hospitals but provided inadequate if any provision. That is one of the reasons that there is such a high number of people with mental health problems sleeping rough or in prison.

It was a Tory policy insofar as the Tories introduced it.  I was working at Garlands Hospital in Carlisle at the time.  Do you know of it?



#288 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:22 PM

No they say it was close, but we had overwhelming power on our side, and if push came to shove I'm sure Reagan would have backed Maggie.  Who knows what the deal was?  But I'm sure Francis Pym knew - that's why she got rid of him shortly afterwards.  A very evil woman.

We did not have overwhelming force. We had overwhelming land forces but the air / sea war was very, very close.



#289 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:23 PM

What about the democratic right to not belong to the Law Society or the BMA, why were these unions not treated the same?

They aren't unions that's why.

 

They are professional bodies.

 

And they don't get involved in union type activity.

 

If you are trying to imply that there were special favours for Tory supporters, I'm not sure that lawyers and doctors are necessarily Tory.


Edited by Northern Sol, 10 April 2013 - 09:28 PM.


#290 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:26 PM

Can I presume that all these people who are disgusted by people celebrating her death, have never let fireworks off on 5th November and celebrated the death of several Catholics.

I was celebrating parliament not being destroyed, I don't know about you.



#291 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:30 PM


I was celebrating parliament not being destroyed, I don't know about you.


So you don't have a bonfire and burn the effigie of a Catholic. Most people do though.

#292 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:30 PM

It was a Tory policy insofar as the Tories introduced it.  I was working at Garlands Hospital in Carlisle at the time.  Do you know of it?

 

 

It was a Tory policy insofar as the Tories introduced it.  I was working at Garlands Hospital in Carlisle at the time.  Do you know of it?

they introduced a bastardised version of it to save cash, the hospitals were closed, but the alternative regimes were not implemented adequately if at all.


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#293 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:38 PM

It is infringing upon my freedom of choice.

 

 

It is infringing upon my freedom of choice.

if it wasn't for your union your pay and working conditions would be far worse than they are now. You enjoy those pay and conditions without having contributed towards them-actually you have since you are a union member-your reasons for being in a union are your business, but it seems odd that you eschew they way your pay and working conditions have been striven for. Do you not feel that the who exercise their right not to be in a union are parasites?


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#294 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:39 PM

It was a Tory policy insofar as the Tories introduced it.  I was working at Garlands Hospital in Carlisle at the time.  Do you know of it?

what are your views on Comprehensive schools and the national curriculum?


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#295 longboard

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:42 PM

As Trojan says, why did she not dismantle the Law Society, the BMA etc. What is different about their closed shop?

 

Why do you think  those organisations are closed shops?


Edited by longboard, 10 April 2013 - 09:43 PM.


#296 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:47 PM

So you don't have a bonfire and burn the effigie of a Catholic. Most people do though.

 

Guy Fawkes is an abstract concept these days. 



#297 longboard

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:59 PM

Care in the community was not a tory policy. I suggest you read the Jay report, virtually my bible when I was doing my psychiatric nurse training . Care in the community's purpose was to take people out of psychiatric hospitals and hospitals for the 'mentally handicapped'. This had to be properly resourced. The Thatcher government saw it as a way to save money, closed down the hospitals but provided inadequate if any provision. That is one of the reasons that there is such a high number of people with mental health problems sleeping rough or in prison.

 

L'angelo the drive for care in the community started long before the Jay Report and even before Enoch Powell's spell as Health Minister in the early 1960s. Powell is sometimes credited as the minister who started the drive for care in the community but that isn't the case. The Jay Report, like Powell's interventions, was one of a number of drivers that provided renewed impetus.

 

Anyway, I don't want to take the thread anymore off topic than it already has become............


Edited by longboard, 10 April 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#298 longboard

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:06 PM

They aren't unions that's why.

 

They are professional bodies.

 

And they don't get involved in union type activity.

 

If you are trying to imply that there were special favours for Tory supporters, I'm not sure that lawyers and doctors are necessarily Tory.

 

Sol, that's not striclty true. They do get involved in union type activities, including involvement in pay/monetary issues and representing their members' interests. They are more hybrid sorts of organisations than traditional, industrial, or craft type unions though.



#299 Padge

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:12 PM

They aren't unions that's why.
 
They are professional bodies.
 
And they don't get involved in union type activity.
 
If you are trying to imply that there were special favours for Tory supporters, I'm not sure that lawyers and doctors are necessarily Tory.

I was a member of the EETPU, a professional body in all but the name Union. I could be an electrician and practice my trade without being a member. I can't practice as a Lawyer etc. without belonging to a closed shop.

I am not implying anything about the affiliation politically about members of these closed shops that still exist, only that closed shops were different in Thatcher's eyes depending on who had the closed shop.

If she was against closed shops so much then she should have removed ALL closed shops.

As for SaintsLass, I just shake my head, to paraphrase, "I like the protection of a closed shop but I don't like closed shops". Your as principled as a ferule cat.

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#300 Padge

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 10:14 PM

Why do you think  those organisations are closed shops?

It protects their interest and ensures they get maximum money for their work. Oh hang on that's a union.

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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.





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