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Thatcher - Has passed away.


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#41 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 05:27 PM

I was chatting to a friend of mine earlier, who is about as 'left' as they come. This was his attitude exactly - criticize her policies and point out where she went wrong (in the eyes of those of a left-leaning persuasion, at least), but don't attack her personally. Once you do that you've lost the argument and not got your deep-held beliefs across.

It would be nice to see a bit more criticism of her politics in the media, though, rather than endless tributes from weeping Tories and Henry Kissinger. Perhaps that will come over time, once the hysteria has died down. I certainly hope so. I for one don't swallow the "she saved the country" line, as peddled out by Call Me Dave today. She fundamentally changed it, yes, but not all her reforms and changes were necessarily for the best. Besides, what's to say the country would have been "saved" (if it needed saving) under a different Tory leader or a Labour government?

 

On the day that someone dies you usually find their legacy is treated with almost exaggerated respect, although I did hear Tony Benn strongly criticising her on 5Live today when I tuned in for the Challenge Cup draw that was then not broadcast at the appointed time. That was rather funny, because I also remember some years ago when Enoch Powell died, Tony Benn speaking quite gushingly about him, believe it or not.

 

You put your finger on a good point, though.

 

How can we possibly know what might have happened if Jim Callaghan had won the 1979 election, and Thatcher had never come to power?

 

How different would things have been today, either for the better or worse?

 

Interesting to speculate, but impossible to answer.



#42 bedlam breakout

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:10 PM

when i got home the wife was sobbing un controllobly just saying "thatchers gone, thatchers gone" i said dont worry theres a case of bulmers under the stairs!


the inside of a 3star halex table tennis ball smells much like you'd expect it to.

#43 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

Temporary lock until we can think about moderating rules...
 
Any other threads will be automatically deleted regardless of content or quality.

 
 

Right folks, here's how this is going to work.
 
Myself and ckn, as moderators on here, have agreed this policy between us as a means of attempting to keep things as civil as possible on here on what will be a very emotive subject for a lot of people on all sides of the 'debate'. Please help us do that by following the advice below.
 
1. The Terms & Conditions of Use will be RIGIDLY applied here. Please take five minutes of your time to read them in full (see below) and ensure that ANYTHING you post in this thread abides by them, PARTICULARLY those bits highlighted in BOLD.
 
2. If you post ANYTHING here deemed to break the Terms & Conditions, your post will be deleted and your use of the forum will be suspended for a period of 7 days for 'cooling off' without warning. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure your posts meet the T&Cs, not our responsibility to check that they do.
 
3. We will start a seperate thread titled 'Thatcherism' where you can debate the politics rather than the personality. However, exactly the same rules will apply in that thread as in here.
 
4. Moderators may move your comments from this thread to the 'Thatcherism' thread if we deem it appropriate.
 
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#44 nec

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 06:45 PM

A lot of the extreme reaction would have already died away if it were not for the horrendous air-brushing of history going on as we speak. I'm sure a more considered reaction from the media will come, but saviour of the nation launched my own 10 minute rant about the evils she committed.
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#45 Wolford6

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:01 PM

The One in Twelve Club is apparently opening tonight for an evening of mourning and reflection.

If members are in before 10pm, it's free drinks afterwards.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#46 Wolford6

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

I wonder if Mark Thatcher has been on the phone yet to Cameron; to ask whether the UK Government will pay for his flight and hotel.

Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police


#47 hindle xiii

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:14 PM

The cynic in me thinks with this flooding of programmes on tv they have been sat on the shelf for a wee while.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#48 barrowbob

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

Being from a shipbuilding town she tried to destroy, I only seen happy smiling faces today at work today.
No love for maggie in barrow

#49 chuffer

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:47 PM

http://www.guardian....death-etiquette



#50 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

First off, I was brought up not speak ill of the dead regardless of their politics

Secondly, as an callow youth heading down the South Atlantic to the Falklands I would like to echo Simon Weston who said agree with her policies or not we were bloody glad she was in charge during that conflict.

Edited by John Drake, 08 April 2013 - 08:40 PM.
Off topic comments removed

I am an oil trader and successful at that but, but marketing, finance, business management, human resources etc are not my strengths


 

 

David Hughes to Ian Lenagan Page 134 - A Pastel Revolution - Fletcher and Gordas - 2006

 

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#51 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:53 PM

http://www.guardian....death-etiquette

He's an idiot.

 

There is a distinction between not speaking of ill of the dead (which is nonsense) and celebrating their death (which is distasteful).

 

I can understand that for some the 1980s was painful enough that they might find this difficult to follow in practice but it's the so-and-sos that weren't really affected by it that just need to vent that are a bit much.



#52 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:04 PM

He's an idiot.

There is a distinction between not speaking of ill of the dead (which is nonsense) and celebrating their death (which is distasteful).

I can understand that for some the 1980s was painful enough that they might find this difficult to follow in practice but it's the so-and-sos that weren't really affected by it that just need to vent that are a bit much.

I disagree the negative critique of her (of which there is a lot) should not be suppressed otherwise the outcome will be to distort history.

Edited by Bostik Bailey, 08 April 2013 - 08:06 PM.


#53 Padge

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:06 PM

Absolutely no time for her whatsoever, but she has family and friends who will mourn her departure and for them I am sure the loss is no less than that felt by your average bloke down the pub in similar circumstances.

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#54 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 08:48 PM

she had a big impact on my and my fathers life and we will shed no tears for her.

my father,my brother, and many of my cousins

and no I wont either.
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#55 Northern Sol

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:23 PM

I disagree the negative critique of her (of which there is a lot) should not be suppressed otherwise the outcome will be to distort history.

 

Negative critique is one thing but celebration is another.



#56 ckn

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:24 PM

Some of the comments that may have been moderated quite strongly if posted on here.

 

I saw one young lady on telly earlier who looked, at the oldest, 25.  She was celebrating as if she'd won the lottery.  What a sad life she must lead.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#57 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 09:56 PM

Being from a shipbuilding town she tried to destroy, I only seen happy smiling faces today at work today.
No love for maggie in barrow

thatcher saved your town.
The Trident programme was a Thatcher policy.
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#58 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:01 PM

The response to her death isn't about 'achieving anything'. It's a vent for those who were adversely affected by her, and also against the gushing nonsense we've been subjected to by the media so far today.

 

What's really quite interesting is how the most prominent reactions of that sort are coming from people who have actually been very positively affected by Thatcher throughout their careers. Comedians and various other celebrities who have made a comfortable career out of opposing what she supposedly stood for, even though some of them are too young to remember what life was like before she came to power.

 

A reasoned critique of Thatcher and her policies is one thing, and should be welcomed, but to spew out vile insults on Twitter or other social media, and to want to be seen to be doing that to curry favour with their supposed audience, is pathetic, in my view.



#59 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:04 PM

What's really quite interesting is how the most prominent reactions of that sort are coming from people who have actually been very positively affected by Thatcher throughout their careers. Comedians and various other celebrities who have made a comfortable career out of opposing what she supposedly stood for, even though some of them are too young to remember what life was like before she came to power.
 
A reasoned critique of Thatcher and her policies is one thing, and should be welcomed, but to spew out vile insults on Twitter or other social media, and to want to be seen to be doing that to curry favour with their supposed audience, is pathetic, in my view.

Tony Benn pretty much does that Martyn
I'm trying to find the quotes, but what he says rises above the emetic, hysterical dross.
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#60 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:05 PM

thatcher saved your town.
The Trident programme was a Thatcher policy.

 

Yes, I also thought that was a surprising claim to make.






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