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Thatcher - Has passed away.


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#61 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:09 PM

A lot of the extreme reaction would have already died away if it were not for the horrendous air-brushing of history going on as we speak. I'm sure a more considered reaction from the media will come, but saviour of the nation launched my own 10 minute rant about the evils she committed.

 

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.

 

I'd be quite interested to know what you think they were.



#62 Saintslass

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

What's really quite interesting is how the most prominent reactions of that sort are coming from people who have actually been very positively affected by Thatcher throughout their careers. Comedians and various other celebrities who have made a comfortable career out of opposing what she supposedly stood for, even though some of them are too young to remember what life was like before she came to power.

 

A reasoned critique of Thatcher and her policies is one thing, and should be welcomed, but to spew out vile insults on Twitter or other social media, and to want to be seen to be doing that to curry favour with their supposed audience, is pathetic, in my view.

Social media has brought out that latent desire in certain people to string someone up just for the fun of it. The mob mentality.  It's a disturbing feature of humanity that I have never understood and always leaves me feeling very uncomfortable. 



#63 Saintslass

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:11 PM

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.

 

I'd be quite interested to know what you think they were.

There is a lot of hyperbole flying around and I doubt many people are actually thinking at all.



#64 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:30 PM

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.
 
I'd be quite interested to know what you think they were.

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.
 
I'd be quite interested to know what you think they were.

'good' and 'evil' are value judgements.

I don't doubt for a minute that the Thatcher government and their supporters thought and still think that what was done was good and right.
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#65 nec

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:42 PM

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.

I'd be quite interested to know what yGou think they were.

it's late but for starters the cover up of hillsborough and scapegoating of the victims, refusal to sanction south Africa and castigation of Mandela as a terrorist whilst cavorting with Pinochet and other despots, torpedoing a retreating ship and killing hundreds then reacting with joy, using the police as a tool at orgreave and covering up. All these class as evil acts in my eyes. I will add to themin the morning.
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#66 Saintslass

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:50 PM

it's late but for starters the cover up of hillsborough and scapegoating of the victims, refusal to sanction south Africa and castigation of Mandela as a terrorist whilst cavorting with Pinochet and other despots, torpedoing a retreating ship and killing hundreds then reacting with joy, using the police as a tool at orgreave and covering up. All these class as evil acts in my eyes. I will add to themin the morning.

The police covered up Hillsborough and there was a widely held belief at the time that drunken fans had caused the problem (thanks to the police disinformation).  She didn't sanction South Africa because she didn't believe in sanctions as they hurt the poor and innocent but she publically condemned apartheid.  Many believed Mandela to be a terrorist just as many believed the IRA to be terrorists.  I can't remember myself whether Mandela was involved in killing but his wife certainly was.  I don't remember her cavorting with Pinochet although he was a friend and his wife had lots of shoes.  She didn't react with joy at the torpedoing of a ship.  We were at war and the press were on about the Belgrano when Thatcher wanted to point to the bravery of our own troops.  No idea what Orgreave was.



#67 John Drake

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:44 PM

She was an incredibly divisive figure, to the extent that those who supported her seem to feel the need now to defend her every action as though she was some infallible goddess, while those who opposed her can find no redeeming features whatsoever. There aren't any shades of grey allowed in these assessments, yet no one is ever right or wrong about absolutely everything.

The Guardian editorial sums up my own views pretty well. Critical of her political legacy, but without resorting to the kind of cheap and distracting personal insults which characterise too much of what passes for opinion these days.

http://www.guardian....tcher-editorial

There is some undeniable rewriting of history going on in many of the tributes being paid. Some of it is truly nauseating in its obsequiousness, just as much of the criticism has been ignorant, offensive and counter-productive.

She was dumped by her own side, after all, which calls into question the 'greatness' some are seeking to bestow upon her now.

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#68 Gary Coyle

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:53 AM

Well i for one liked her, at least she had the balls to stand up to the unions who were crippling industry



#69 Northern Sol

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:06 AM

She was dumped by her own side, after all, which calls into question the 'greatness' some are seeking to bestow upon her now.

Tbf it is said that all political careers end in failure.



#70 Trojan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:15 AM

spot on

 
 Lets face the fact that you have had to issue this caution say's it all


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#71 Trojan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:17 AM

You agreed with the fact that it was her policies that lost the islands in the first place then?

First off, I was brought up not speak ill of the dead regardless of their politics

Secondly, as an callow youth heading down the South Atlantic to the Falklands I would like to echo Simon Weston who said agree with her policies or not we were bloody glad she was in charge during that conflict.


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#72 Trojan

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:21 AM

I forget who said it, but it sums up my feelings about her exactly. "You knew where you were with Maggie, it was being there without a paddle that I didn't like"


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#73 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

I've been uncomfotable about people saying they will celebrate her death.

 

Many of my family and many of my friends had their lives ruined by the way she orchestrated the miners' strike and the way her vassals went about their work. So the idea of a tax payers' funded national celebration of her lifein the form of a ruritanian state funeral  makes me feel even more uncomfortable: I feel like my family and friends who went through all that will b having their faces rubbed in the #### once again:That they are being mocked. Maybe a street party will be in order after all.


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#74 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:40 AM

...

She was dumped by her own side, after all, which calls into question the 'greatness' some are seeking to bestow upon her now.

 

Surely that says more about "her own side" than it does about her.


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#75 Ullman

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:41 AM

I've been uncomfotable about people saying they will celebrate her death.

 

Many of my family and many of my friends had their lives ruined by the way she orchestrated the miners' strike and the way her vassals went about their work. So the idea of a tax payers' funded national celebration of her lifein the form of a ruritanian state funeral  makes me feel even more uncomfortable: I feel like my family and friends who went through all that will b having their faces rubbed in the #### once again:That they are being mocked. Maybe a street party will be in order after all.

I wonder what the Taxpayers' Alliance would have to say about such a profligate use of public money in these financially straitened times.


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#76 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:42 AM

If she committed evil acts she certainly should not have been supported by anyone.

I'd be quite interested to know what you think they were.


Supporting Pinochet, The SA apartheid regime and helping the Kymer Rouge.

Add systematically destroying the economies of large areas of the UK without any sustainable infrastructure to help out, all due to a political ideal, which gave no regard to that fact that this wasn't just companies and industry it was people's lives.

#77 Futtocks

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:44 AM

A bit of balance in today's Metro (part of the Daily Mail), no less. Commemoration of an extraordinary career, yes, but also giving space to criticism. Conversely, on the notoriously Trotskyist BBC Radio 4, the vast majority of contributions have been from wizened old Tories, claiming that everything she did was good and right. Funny old world...

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#78 Bostik Bailey

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:45 AM

I've been uncomfotable about people saying they will celebrate her death.

Many of my family and many of my friends had their lives ruined by the way she orchestrated the miners' strike and the way her vassals went about their work. So the idea of a tax payers' funded national celebration of her lifein the form of a ruritanian state funeral makes me feel even more uncomfortable: I feel like my family and friends who went through all that will b having their faces rubbed in the #### once again:That they are being mocked. Maybe a street party will be in order after all.


Maybe people will be allowed to dress up as munchkins and dance behind the herse singing follow the yellow brick road

Seriously in the present time of disability benefit cuts to spend any public money on her funeral is sick ( worse than people celebrating her death)

#79 JohnM

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:49 AM

L'Ange, Whilst respecting what you say and regretting the suffering your family and friend experienced, I think that holding a street party will only diminish those who organize and take part, just as the well-organised spontaneous outpourings of hate in some places only serves to damage the protesters causes. 

 

In addition, I have struggled in the last day to find a TV channel that has not indulged in saturation coverage, apart from Dave Deja Vu, as politicians famous and obscure, media reporters and misc hangers on on rub their hands in glee at the overtime they might get from all the special programmes about Thatcher.

 

Around 1400 people died in the UK yesterday and each and every one of those represents a tragedy for their families, friends and not least, the deceased themselves. A sense of proportion from the media wouldn't do any harrm.

 

As for any political debate  about her, I'll reserve that for the thread dedicated specifically to that topic.


Edited by JohnM, 09 April 2013 - 08:52 AM.


#80 Wolford6

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think the biggest gesture that can be made by invitees and by the the public at large is to boycott the funeral.

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