Jump to content


Rugby League World - Grand Finals Issue

RUGBY LEAGUE WORLD - THE GRAND FINALS ISSUE - OUT 17 OCT OR DOWNLOAD IT NOW!
Try our Fantastic 4-Issue Bundle Offer:
For just £14, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:

The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final drama from both hemispheres plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Thatcher - Has passed away.


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
402 replies to this topic

#81 Ackroman

Ackroman
  • Coach
  • 1,913 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:56 AM

Thatcher defined what we are today. In 1979 we had a government propping up industry that employed millions. Now we have a government propping up millions.

Well done Maggie. At least she's made it to 87. Far too many ended up in their graves a lot earlier.

#82 Amber Avenger

Amber Avenger
  • Coach
  • 5,778 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:00 AM

The cynic in me thinks with this flooding of programmes on tv they have been sat on the shelf for a wee while.

 

It's standard practice for such a prominent figure in their advancing years I think. Some of the stuff that was on last night will have been on the shelf for over a decade, with a couple of lines added last moment at the end.

 

Similar things will certainly be ready for The Queen, I know newsreaders and stations genuinely rehearse the announcement of her death. I also expect the non-news TV schedules for the first 24/48 after Queenie goes are similarly already in the vault ready to go at a moment’s notice.


SQL Honours
Play off mini league winner - 2002. Bronze Medalist - 2003. Big Split Group Winner - 2006. Minor Stupidship - 2005, 2006. Cup Silver Medalist - 2008, 2009
CHAMPION - 2005, 2009, 2010

#83 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,302 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

I think the biggest gesture that can be made by invitees and by the the public at large is to boycott the funeral.

 I think you may be underestimating the support she has across the UK as a whole. 



#84 Gary Coyle

Gary Coyle
  • Coach
  • 7,155 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:13 AM

I wonder if the funeral day were to be made a public holiday/day of mourning like some state funerals  just how many of her detractors would actually go to work in protest



#85 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 2,983 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:14 AM

It's standard practice for such a prominent figure in their advancing years I think. Some of the stuff that was on last night will have been on the shelf for over a decade, with a couple of lines added last moment at the end.

 

Similar things will certainly be ready for The Queen, I know newsreaders and stations genuinely rehearse the announcement of her death. I also expect the non-news TV schedules for the first 24/48 after Queenie goes are similarly already in the vault ready to go at a moment’s notice.

I know for the Queen and a few others they update the obituary each year, so they have one ready to go as and when.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#86 nadera78

nadera78
  • Coach
  • 2,983 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

I wonder if the funeral day were to be made a public holiday/day of mourning like some state funerals  just how many of her detractors would actually go to work in protest

Surely she'd hate to see people taking time off to stand at the side of the road for her when it would be much more productive for them to be at work? 

 

Privatise the funeral. You'd make a profit there'd be so many willing to pay for the privilege of burying her. 


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#87 Bostik Bailey

Bostik Bailey
  • Coach
  • 1,690 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

I wonder if the funeral day were to be made a public holiday/day of mourning like some state funerals just how many of her detractors would actually go to work in protest


During her time in office 3 million people would have loved to be able to go to work.

#88 Gary Coyle

Gary Coyle
  • Coach
  • 7,155 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:25 AM

During her time in office 3 million people would have loved to be able to go to work.

Sorry, how many are out of work now and how many were out of work when she took up office, of course the unions had nothing to do with it did they.

 

There are officially 2.52 million out of work now and most economists reckon the true unmassaged figure is approaching 3.4 million.

 

They all ###### in the same pot mate


Edited by Gary Coyle, 09 April 2013 - 09:27 AM.


#89 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,766 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:46 AM

Has anyone interviewed Heseltine yet? Seems like he's the only old Tory lag who hasn't pontificated so far (for some strange reason ;) ).

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#90 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,496 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:48 AM

Well i for one liked her, at least she had the balls to stand up to the unions who were crippling industry

it was industrial conflict that was amongst other things-###### products, lack of investent that were crippling industry.

 

it takes two to have a conflict. It takes incompetence and greed at ahigh level to do the other two.

 

Ah yes I remember it well, my old man being driven to he pit in a chauffeur driven Bentley, we got sick of having pheasant for tea.

 

The UK is now a major exporter of cars. All he car manufacturers  in the UK are unionised. The workers have good condition are well paid, an the poducts are good.

 

Th difference is that an archaic system has been replaced. It was done by conflict, it was done by working together. It take stwo to tango f bad and for good.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#91 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,766 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:52 AM


The UK is now a major exporter of cars. All he car manufacturers  in the UK are unionised. The workers have good condition are well paid, an the poducts are good.


And it took the Japanese to teach us how. The Japanese, whose cars were originally mocked by the makers of such ultimate driving machines as the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina. Chastening.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#92 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,496 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

And it took the Japanese to teach us how. The Japanese, whose cars were originally mocked by the makers of such ultimate driving machines as the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina. Chastening.

precisely


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#93 Martyn Sadler

Martyn Sadler

    League Publications Ltd

  • Moderator
  • 2,857 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:58 AM

I've been uncomfotable about people saying they will celebrate her death.

 

Many of my family and many of my friends had their lives ruined by the way she orchestrated the miners' strike and the way her vassals went about their work. So the idea of a tax payers' funded national celebration of her lifein the form of a ruritanian state funeral  makes me feel even more uncomfortable: I feel like my family and friends who went through all that will b having their faces rubbed in the #### once again:That they are being mocked. Maybe a street party will be in order after all.

 

Like you I have family and friends who were miners. Having done some ancestral research recently I've found that my forefathers seem to have been particularly unlucky at being in the wrong place at the wrong time when it came to mining disasters.

Back in 1981 I lived not very far from Woolley Colliery, where Arthur Scargill had worked as a younger man. The former miners I knew who had worked with him absolutely detested him, and warned that if he was elected to the NUM presidency to replace Joe Gormley it would be a disaster for the miners in many ways, not least in terms of his determination to use the miners as a bulwark in his warped view of the class struggle.

A lot of senior and retired NUM officials at the time had the same message, but were largely ignored, mainly because Scargill was a very effective media performer, and his lieutenants in the union were very effective at persuading the miners to back him.

One of the key qualities of miners is their loyalty to each other, which is vital for them, given the nature of the job. Scargill was able to harness that loyalty in pursuit of his own political ambition, which he did ruthlessly, causing enormous hardship among his union members and ensuring that anyone who questioned anything he did was effectively ostracised.

Any government, when its legitimacy is challenge by a politicised strike, has to respond strongly, and even ruthlessly, and Thatcher was clearly the wrong opponent for Scargill to pick.

We often refer to World War 1 as lions being led by donkeys, and in the same vein the miner's strike could probably be described as lions being led by a mule.

I obviously don't know the details of how the lives of your family and friends were ruined by the miners' strike, but to blame all their misfortune on Thatcher, without looking at the other side, seems unbalanced to me.



#94 Steve May

Steve May
  • Coach
  • 10,111 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:59 AM

it was industrial conflict that was amongst other things-###### products, lack of investent that were crippling industry.
 
it takes two to have a conflict. It takes incompetence and greed at ahigh level to do the other two.
 
Ah yes I remember it well, my old man being driven to he pit in a chauffeur driven Bentley, we got sick of having pheasant for tea.
 
The UK is now a major exporter of cars. All he car manufacturers  in the UK are unionised. The workers have good condition are well paid, an the poducts are good.
 
Th difference is that an archaic system has been replaced. It was done by conflict, it was done by working together. It take stwo to tango f bad and for good.

Unfortunately most of the those UK produced cars would generally be recognised as German or Japanese on the road.

You are absolutely correct in what you say about unions and management.

That's me.  I'm done.


#95 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,496 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:02 AM

L'Ange, Whilst respecting what you say and regretting the suffering your family and friend experienced, I think that holding a street party will only diminish those who organize and take part, just as the well-organised spontaneous outpourings of hate in some places only serves to damage the protesters causes. 

 

In addition, I have struggled in the last day to find a TV channel that has not indulged in saturation coverage, apart from Dave Deja Vu, as politicians famous and obscure, media reporters and misc hangers on on rub their hands in glee at the overtime they might get from all the special programmes about Thatcher.

 

Around 1400 people died in the UK yesterday and each and every one of those represents a tragedy for their families, friends and not least, the deceased themselves. A sense of proportion from the media wouldn't do any harrm.

 

As for any political debate  about her, I'll reserve that for the thread dedicated specifically to that topic.

John I said at I was uncomfortable ith the idea of celebrating her death

my comments reflcted upon the ammount of tax payers money, pageantry and celebration that will surround her tacky, vainglorious funeral. I was saying tha in the ligtof that a street party might, repeat might be in order, orat least undderstandabe after all


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#96 John Drake

John Drake
  • Admin
  • 7,693 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:07 AM

 I think you may be underestimating the support she has across the UK as a whole. 

 

Personally I think it is madness to organise a big public funeral for such a clearly divisive figure. For every supporter you will find a detractor, and whichever side of that particular fence you sit, the potential for trouble is huge when such polarised views are given a platform on which to clash, particularly a live televised platform at that. Then there's the matter of who picks up the bill in these straightened times...


John Drake
Site Admin: TotalRL.com
TotalRL.com
Email: john.drake@totalrl.com


#97 l'angelo mysterioso

l'angelo mysterioso
  • Coach
  • 41,496 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:13 AM

Like you I have family and friends who were miners. Having done some ancestral research recently I've found that my forefathers seem to have been particularly unlucky at being in the wrong place at the wrong time when it came to mining disasters.

Back in 1981 I lived not very far from Woolley Colliery, where Arthur Scargill had worked as a younger man. The former miners I knew who had worked with him absolutely detested him, and warned that if he was elected to the NUM presidency to replace Joe Gormley it would be a disaster for the miners in many ways, not least in terms of his determination to use the miners as a bulwark in his warped view of the class struggle.

A lot of senior and retired NUM officials at the time had the same message, but were largely ignored, mainly because Scargill was a very effective media performer, and his lieutenants in the union were very effective at persuading the miners to back him.

One of the key qualities of miners is their loyalty to each other, which is vital for them, given the nature of the job. Scargill was able to harness that loyalty in pursuit of his own political ambition, which he did ruthlessly, causing enormous hardship among his union members and ensuring that anyone who questioned anything he did was effectively ostracised.

Any government, when its legitimacy is challenge by a politicised strike, has to respond strongly, and even ruthlessly, and Thatcher was clearly the wrong opponent for Scargill to pick.

We often refer to World War 1 as lions being led by donkeys, and in the same vein the miner's strike could probably be described as lions being led by a mule.

I obviously don't know the details of how the lives of your family and friends were ruined by the miners' strike, but to blame all their misfortune on Thatcher, without looking at the other side, seems unbalanced to me.

I think Scargill's leadership style has a lot to answer for and have alreay said so. In many ways he was the leaser the government wanted.


WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
Keeping it local

#98 Futtocks

Futtocks
  • Coach
  • 20,766 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:16 AM

Personally I think it is madness to organise a big public funeral for such a clearly divisive figure. For every supporter you will find a detractor, and whichever side of that particular fence you sit, the potential for trouble is huge when such polarised views are given a platform on which to clash, particularly a live televised platform at that. Then there's the matter of who picks up the bill in these straightened times...


For every supporter you will find a detractor and several attention-seekers who will probably try some half-baked publicity stunt.

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it isn’t open. Frank Zappa (1940 - 1993)


#99 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,302 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:21 AM

This is one for the politics thread really, but post-war UK manufacturing industry was bedeviled by poor management, too much "us-and-them", lack of investment, politically-motivated union leadership at plant level. Propping up such an industry failed to make it competitive in an increasingly global market for trains, planes, ship and bombs, chemicals and pharmaceuticals. 

 

So much has changed in this respect that today, whatever people on here think of UK manufacturing industry,  it is in fact in quite good health and getting better. It is in my opinion, at least partially dues to Thatcher in that she seems to have changed things in making it clear that the industry had to stand on its own two feet. BAE Systems is now the largest defence company in the world.



#100 JohnM

JohnM
  • Coach
  • 20,302 posts

Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:33 AM

Unfortunately most of the those UK produced cars would generally be recognised as German or Japanese on the road.

You are absolutely correct in what you say about unions and management.

However, it is no longer as easy to allocate nationalities to vehicle brands as it once was. The best thing we have imported are some of the management practices from these companies but much design work is carried out here. The original Mazda MX -5 was designed in Brighton, and Nissan's European Technical Centre is at Cranfield. The Nissan Qashqai, with around 1,000,000 sold, was styled at Nissan Design Europe in London, designed at Cranfield and made in Sunderland.

 

I was down at Red Bull Racing recently - 700 employees in Milton Keynes, and an annual  budget of £400 million..and most F1 teams are based here - Lotus, Catereham, Williams,McLaren

 

Wirth Research  in Bicester design and make Le Mans cars  under the label of a major Japanese/US car company....

 

Then look at Fairline Boats, Sunseeker, Olesinski, Shuttleworth..all manufacturers of some really high and expensive prestige boats

 

and so on.