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#21 Robin Evans

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:40 AM

:lol: It is nice to see both sides of the argument put forward for a balanced debate for someone who had on three occasions won the majority of the british electoral vote and who saved the UK

 

 No she didn't. I can't recall an occasion in my lifetime where a primeminister has been elected with a majority of the electorate e.g. over 50% of those voting.

They have of course been elected with a majority of seats according to our electoral system - not the same thing. No primeminister in my lifetime has represented the majority of the electorate as applicable to votes cast on election day.

Almost everyone knows my political leanings and my deeply held thoughts on primeministers past. That's as much as I'm saying on this rugby forum.
 


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#22 thundergaz

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:11 AM

No she didn't. I can't recall an occasion in my lifetime where a primeminister has been elected with a majority of the electorate e.g. over 50% of those voting.
They have of course been elected with a majority of seats according to our electoral system - not the same thing. No primeminister in my lifetime has represented the majority of the electorate as applicable to votes cast on election day.
Almost everyone knows my political leanings and my deeply held thoughts on primeministers past. That's as much as I'm saying on this rugby forum.

Robin this subject is as fragile as the idiot pushing the buttons in North Korea. Everybody in Fev knows what she was like and did you will always get someone liking her and not liking her.

Edited by thundergaz, 12 April 2013 - 10:12 AM.


#23 jamescolin

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:59 PM

The truth of the matter is that the miners to whom I gave my full support were political pawns in a game played by left wing trade unions that were communist orientated and had brought down two previous governments and a government that wasn't going to give in. I worked through it and gave the miners who were not given a vote to strike, my full backing. Like all political issues and wars the ordinary people are just cannon fodder for the politicians of any ilk. Some body said to me yesterday that politicians are like bananas. They start off green, then become yellow and finish up bent. This is a Fev RL forum and political matters shouldn't distract us  or divide us from our support of the lads. I lived in a house that was back to back and had been built just for the cheap labour to exploit the mine workers. That is why China, Brazil, India etc are going to be major powers they have the cheap labour. We have to keep clear heads and not be swayed by silly propaganda from people who just want power. They are not really interested in the working man. Their whole idiom is how much goes into my pocket. Let's get back to RL - any singings yet?



#24 1945etseq

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

I agree with every word of the above. Can we now have a rule that politics are banned from this forum - exept the rugby league kind?

#25 Maureen T-k

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:48 PM

I agree with every word of the above. Can we now have a rule that politics are banned from this forum - exept the rugby league kind?


In a nutshell no, as long as we remain civil to one another and do not break forum rules, then we discuss/debate, plus I think you will find Politics are even involved in the world of Rugby League.
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#26 Robin Evans

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:00 PM


In a nutshell no, as long as we remain civil to one another and do not break forum rules, then we discuss/debate, plus I think you will find Politics are even involved in the world of Rugby League.

bang on mo.
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#27 Ponte3

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

The truth of the matter is that the miners to whom I gave my full support were political pawns in a game played by left wing trade unions that were communist orientated and had brought down two previous governments and a government that wasn't going to give in. I worked through it and gave the miners who were not given a vote to strike, my full backing. Like all political issues and wars the ordinary people are just cannon fodder for the politicians of any ilk. Some body said to me yesterday that politicians are like bananas. They start off green, then become yellow and finish up bent. This is a Fev RL forum and political matters shouldn't distract us  or divide us from our support of the lads. I lived in a house that was back to back and had been built just for the cheap labour to exploit the mine workers. That is why China, Brazil, India etc are going to be major powers they have the cheap labour. We have to keep clear heads and not be swayed by silly propaganda from people who just want power. They are not really interested in the working man. Their whole idiom is how much goes into my pocket. Let's get back to RL - any singings yet?

Why is it OK for an elected government to sign treaties, levy taxes, go to war etc without giving people a vote but wrong for an elected union leadership to call it's members out on strike.

#28 1945etseq

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 01:16 PM

Pardon me for thinking "Featherstone Rovers Fans Forum" meant a forum for Rovers fanatics to discuss the Rovers. Now I know it is a free-for-all I might as well join in. Of course a union can call its members out on strike, but not by the undemocratic method of a mass meeting where the bully boys force people to put their hand up. That was Arthur Scargill's first mistake. The more militant areas of Yorkshire, Scotland and Kent were soon out. The less militant Lancashire, Welsh and West Midlands were "persuaded" to follow suit. Nottinghamshire and East Midlands miners insisted on a ballot and turned a trike down. The train drivers were told they had to drive coal trains and so the strike was lost - but it carried on regardless. NACODS rubbed it in by voting not to strike but still the miners were kept out for another futile six months, ruining the finances of many of them.
I could go on to prove the NUM closed Ackton Hall Colliery, but what's the point. I will probably get enough vitriol for this already. And just in case you think I don't know what I am writing about, I was as various periods a membor of all four mining unions. I could write a lot about how the colliers at Ackton Hall helped me on my way. At one period I worked on the coal face next to Les Tonks. When the country was crying out for coal we worked a Saturday morning shift, and then he turned out for the Rovers. I still think this is a forum for the Rovers but I enjoyed writing that. I could be persuaded to write a lot more.

#29 jamescolin

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

Why is it OK for an elected government to sign treaties, levy taxes, go to war etc without giving people a vote but wrong for an elected union leadership to call it's members out on strike.

The members were not given a vote whether they wanted to strike or not. I dealt with numerous miners who didn't want to be on strike and were threatened with smashed windows and kicked in doors. The Young Socialists infiltrated the miners picket lines to cause trouble with the police. The union men who were still being paid walked around like lords of the manor with pockets full of contributed money deciding who could have a hand out. If you hadn't been on picket duty you got nothing. Lots of sole traders went out of business because of picketers. Proir to this we had the three day week ,Dead bodies piling up and rubbish uncolected. The whole aim was to control the political scenario as they had done previously. Gormley had won and Scargill tried to emulate him. The whole thing was a mess and needed sorting. Before you ask let me tell you I have been a miner, a trade union official, a soldier on  active service who had been shot at and almost hit and my experience is that the working man is exploited by people in power whoever they may be. If you look at history you will see this is the case.  



#30 Maureen T-k

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 02:34 PM

Pardon me for thinking "Featherstone Rovers Fans Forum" meant a forum for Rovers fanatics to discuss the Rovers. Now I know it is a free-for-all I might as well join in. Of course a union can call its members out on strike, but not by the undemocratic method of a mass meeting where the bully boys force people to put their hand up. That was Arthur Scargill's first mistake. The more militant areas of Yorkshire, Scotland and Kent were soon out. The less militant Lancashire, Welsh and West Midlands were "persuaded" to follow suit. Nottinghamshire and East Midlands miners insisted on a ballot and turned a trike down. The train drivers were told they had to drive coal trains and so the strike was lost - but it carried on regardless. NACODS rubbed it in by voting not to strike but still the miners were kept out for another futile six months, ruining the finances of many of them.I could go on to prove the NUM closed Ackton Hall Colliery, but what's the point. I will probably get enough vitriol for this already. And just in case you think I don't know what I am writing about, I was as various periods a membor of all four mining unions. I could write a lot about how the colliers at Ackton Hall helped me on my way. At one period I worked on the coal face next to Les Tonks. When the country was crying out for coal we worked a Saturday morning shift, and then he turned out for the Rovers. I still think this is a forum for the Rovers but I enjoyed writing that. I could be persuaded to write a lot more.



We also discuss/debate subjects off topic, and generally indicate this on the title of the thread.
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#31 Robin Evans

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:50 PM

Pardon me for thinking "Featherstone Rovers Fans Forum" meant a forum for Rovers fanatics to discuss the Rovers. Now I know it is a free-for-all I might as well join in. Of course a union can call its members out on strike, but not by the undemocratic method of a mass meeting where the bully boys force people to put their hand up.

I don't recall being asked to vote for my countrymen to go to war. Whether we should sell off our national assetts, assetts that we all owned to make rich a few shareholders?
I don't recall being asked by "Bullying" politicians of the time if I wanted my local authority prevented from building new affordable housing for the vulnerable and/or most needy people in our society?? I can't recall my opinion being sought over the de-reg of the banking system which is rooted firmly and deeply in the mess we have today??

I was in BACM at the time of the strike.... and did my 12 months. I know exactly what it was like. I worked for the deputy chairman of BCC, Sir John Northard after the strike and was made well aware what the political drivers of the then government was and what the furture (or lack of it) held for the coal industry.
Some communities have never really recovered fronm that strike. That administration were intent on closing 95% of the industry and selling off just a small few of what was left of that industry. Many people involved in mining, associated businesses and their communities suffered greatly because of the political motivations of the time.
There are some deeply empassioned views from some families around featherstone who suffered because of the politics of the day.
I am not one who will celebrate the death of anyone, largely as the old woman that dies last week was not the Margret Thatch that inflicted her pain across many thousands of families and their communities. Her neurological deterioration was so severe she would not have had the capacity or memory recall to process what she presided over during her term in office. In essence Mrs Thatch died ten years ago!
But I certainly aren't going to condemn those that do wish to voice their legitimate feelings about the damage she did at that time.

I started work for BCC as a trainee accountant on sept 29th 1979. There were 232 pits, employing 229,000 people just underground. Add clerical, management, ancillary staff, transport, workshops, coal prep staff etc and that number rose to over 400, 000 employess.
I think there are four pits left now.

The industry has been obliterated. I too could go on but I'm reluctant to do so. The mines have gone.... so has Mrs Thatch. I shead no tears.

Edited by Robin Evans, 14 April 2013 - 06:05 PM.

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#32 Robin Evans

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:54 PM

The truth of the matter is that the miners to whom I gave my full support were political pawns in a game played by left wing trade unions that were communist orientated and had brought down two previous governments and a government that wasn't going to give in.

No it isn't!


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#33 Robin Evans

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:59 PM


- any singings yet?


No!
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#34 jamescolin

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:31 PM

I don't recall being asked to vote for my countrymen to go to war. Whether we should sell off our national assetts, assetts that we all owned to make rich a few shareholders?
I don't recall being asked by "Bullying" politicians of the time if I wanted my local authority prevented from building new affordable housing for the vulnerable and/or most needy people in our society?? I can't recall my opinion being sought over the de-reg of the banking system which is rooted firmly and deeply in the mess we have today??

I was in BACM at the time of the strike.... and did my 12 months. I know exactly what it was like. I worked for the deputy chairman of BCC, Sir John Northard after the strike and was made well aware what the political drivers of the then government was and what the furture (or lack of it) held for the coal industry.
Some communities have never really recovered fronm that strike. That administration were intent on closing 95% of the industry and selling off just a small few of what was left of that industry. Many people involved in mining, associated businesses and their communities suffered greatly because of the political motivations of the time.
There are some deeply empassioned views from some families around featherstone who suffered because of the politics of the day.
I am not one who will celebrate the death of anyone, largely as the old woman that dies last week was not the Margret Thatch that inflicted her pain across many thousands of families and their communities. Her neurological deterioration was so severe she would not have had the capacity or memory recall to process what she presided over during her term in office. In essence Mrs Thatch died ten years ago!
But I certainly aren't going to condemn those that do wish to voice their legitimate feelings about the damage she did at that time.

I started work for BCC as a trainee accountant on sept 29th 1979. There were 232 pits, employing 229,000 people just underground. Add clerical, management, ancillary staff, transport, workshops, coal prep staff etc and that number rose to over 400, 000 employess.
I think there are four pits left now.

The industry has been obliterated. I too could go on but I'm reluctant to do so. The mines have gone.... so has Mrs Thatch. I shead no tears.

Don't forget we have had 13 years of Labour since and over 20 years since Thatcher left you must put some blame elsewhere. How many pits did other governments open after her? Nobody is shedding tears. I said the working man has always been exploited no matter who is in power in any quarters. I stick by that. In trade unions you are supposed to ballot the members before strike action. The examples you give are not relevant. Otherwise Mr Almighty Blair, Brown and New Labour would be on trial for their crimes.



#35 Robin Evans

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 06:35 PM

I disagree almost entirely with your post.
The labour government didnt have a coal industry to manage when it took over .
I must do nothing of the sort. My blame remains where it is!
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#36 1945etseq

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

You should be more specific. When Clem Attlee nationalised the mines there were about 1,600 of them. In 1980 there were 352. if Maggie shut them all that's a hell of a closure programme.
Back to my previous post - I missed my typo. It wasn't as good as the BBC newsreader's "Baroness Thatcher has died after a strike". It was either an autocue typo, or he needs to see his optician. My sillier mistake was to put Les Tonks instead of Les Payne. It was silly because Les Payne was my dad's next door neighbour and he relied on my dad to knock him up for work.

#37 Steve Slater

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:08 PM

It's not just about the mines! The miners strike was engineered by Thatcher to kill off the trade union movement, why else would she have chosen to close Cortonwood, a pit that had huge reserves and had just had millions invested into it? Thatcher was like the big, tough kid who goes to a new school. Instead of having to fight everybody she went for the Cock Of The Playground (Scargill). Once she had seen the miners off it was curtains for everyone else. Now we have toothless Unions and wage differentials wider than The Grand Canyon, and politicians talking about jobs created when these are mainly part-time at minimum-wage rates.

#38 Robin Evans

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:11 PM


It's not just about the mines! The miners strike was engineered by Thatcher to kill off the trade union movement, why else would she have chosen to close Cortonwood, a pit that had huge reserves and had just had millions invested into it? Thatcher was like the big, tough kid who goes to a new school. Instead of having to fight everybody she went for the Cock Of The Playground (Scargill). Once she had seen the miners off it was curtains for everyone else. Now we have toothless Unions and wage differentials wider than The Grand Canyon, and politicians talking about jobs created when these are mainly part-time at minimum-wage rates.

excellent observations
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#39 jamescolin

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:38 PM

It's not just about the mines! The miners strike was engineered by Thatcher to kill off the trade union movement, why else would she have chosen to close Cortonwood, a pit that had huge reserves and had just had millions invested into it? Thatcher was like the big, tough kid who goes to a new school. Instead of having to fight everybody she went for the Cock Of The Playground (Scargill). Once she had seen the miners off it was curtains for everyone else. Now we have toothless Unions and wage differentials wider than The Grand Canyon, and politicians talking about jobs created when these are mainly part-time at minimum-wage rates.

No the miners strike was engineered by the hard left. They wanted the trade unions to rule the country via their politicians. Go back to Jack Jones and look at his record. Was he paid by the KGB? There is evidence to suggest so. Scargill was a Marxist who wanted the left to rule. The miners were incidental to the hard left's aims. There are signs that via Miliband who they support and control that they are getting ready for another hard line control bid. I have said before and I will say it again. The people who orchestrate these matters are only interested in power for themselves. Not the working man. That includes all politicians and so called union leaders. Time will tell. I am not commenting on this matter further as I want to get back to RL. Look at your real history and you will see the working man has always been exploited. Incidentally reports have it that they are spending more on gym facilities for prisoners than Thatchers funeral.



#40 Robin Evans

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Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:40 PM


No the miners strike was engineered by the hard left. l.

No it wasn't.
The rest of your post is full of inaccuracies, supposition and perhaps libelous comment.

Edited by Robin Evans, 15 April 2013 - 04:42 PM.

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