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London Broncos moving to Farnborough next year


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#21 The Parksider

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:02 PM

What have the RU got to gloat about if London lose their licence? Barring Harlequins the RU clubs who were in London had to move outside to cater for full time professionalism. The fact is club rugby is a grossly minority sport in London.

I'm not sure Pom.

Wasn't the problem with Wasps and Sarries (and now the old ex pats clubs) that they were amateurs without professional stadia, and had to move out of London to accommodate crowds that have grown extremely well to levels London Broncos can only dream of???

#22 The Parksider

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:08 PM

It'll be nowt like the Crusaders situation; in that instance the RFL already had a ready made substitute in Wakefield. Parachuting Toulouse in at the 11th hour would be disastrous.

Having said that, the current franchise system will make it very hard for any new French side to survive and flourish.

What Toulouse really need if they're to stand any chance is a similar lead-in time to the Catalans, so they can sign players, put structures in place, build awareness etc.

It's ok saying that the RFL will have tipped them the wink anyway, but that isn't enough. The people of Toulouse need to know the team is coming too.

The Catalans entry model is possibly the only example of successful top level expansion in the entire history of UK rugby league. Why wouldn't you repeat a winning formula?

Well your right of course.

We are however well into the second year of a three year licensing period and no sign of an early nod for Toulouse so I'm not sure here, you or anyone else know how long a lead in Les Cats got???

But I'd still plead in mitigation that the further expansion to France would still be heavily used come the possible announcement "London are not getting a licence" by the simple riders "But don't worry Toulouse are" and "RL is moving forward on the international stage" and "Hemel and Skolars will continue to carry the flag for London".

Could I get a job as a PR script writer?

#23 longboard

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

I'm not sure Pom.

Wasn't the problem with Wasps and Sarries (and now the old ex pats clubs) that they were amateurs without professional stadia, and had to move out of London to accommodate crowds that have grown extremely well to levels London Broncos can only dream of???

 

Yup. They were clubs with little more than pitches, particularly Wasps. They are still working on getting good grounds that generate the kind of revenue they need to thrive long term. Saracens are obviously further down this road but the capacity of their ground at Barnet is low for a club wth their aspirations.



#24 The Parksider

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

Yup. They were clubs with little more than pitches, particularly Wasps. They are still working on getting good grounds that generate the kind of revenue they need to thrive long term. Saracens are obviously further down this road but the capacity of their ground at Barnet is low for a club wth their aspirations.

Thanks for that. I do believe RU in London although has reduced animosity to RL, will still be smiling if London Broncos go.

Leaving the only route for budding rugby professionals a local RU club or a long trip up north only the most determined may take...

#25 dredgie

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:21 PM

Talks did take place between Farnborough FC and the Broncos (and a RU team) but are not expected to go any further (from the owner of Farnborough so I'd guess he should know)



#26 Pottsy

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:39 PM

The RFL really should have invested in a suitable base in London and consolidated/centralised its operation in the capital a long time ago.

In my opinion the RFL should have looked into taking over the running of and developing somewhere like New River Stadium as a base for rugby league in the capital.

This could have provided a suitable home for both a Super League (Broncos) and a tier two club (Skolars), top class training facilities for youngsters, a venue for local finals, rep games etc and an administrative centre for all RFL staff in the south.

It was good to see Hector McNeil (IM2) suggesting something very similar in this month's RL World. My only fear is that, barring a miracle, we may already have 'jumped the shark' in terms of rugby league's continued survival as an elite level sport in the capital.

#27 zorquif

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:05 PM

What makes you say that canetman?

#28 Northern Sol

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:44 PM

The RFL really should have invested in a suitable base in London and consolidated/centralised its operation in the capital a long time ago.

In my opinion the RFL should have looked into taking over the running of and developing somewhere like New River Stadium as a base for rugby league in the capital.

This could have provided a suitable home for both a Super League (Broncos) and a tier two club (Skolars), top class training facilities for youngsters, a venue for local finals, rep games etc and an administrative centre for all RFL staff in the south.

Skolars and Broncos already share players, if they shared a stadium as well then Skolars would be Broncos' reserves. Who would pay money to watch Broncos A when a couple of quid more will get you into a SL game?

 

Broncos need a new home but it should not be a ground share with Skolars.



#29 deluded pom?

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 05:54 PM

I'm not sure Pom.

Wasn't the problem with Wasps and Sarries (and now the old ex pats clubs) that they were amateurs without professional stadia, and had to move out of London to accommodate crowds that have grown extremely well to levels London Broncos can only dream of???

 

 

My point was that there are plenty of soccer grounds actually in London. Why aren't the likes of Saracens and Wasps playing at one of those stadiums? Lack of interest from spectators or London soccer club apathy?


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#30 Pottsy

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 06:43 PM

Skolars and Broncos already share players, if they shared a stadium as well then Skolars would be Broncos' reserves. Who would pay money to watch Broncos A when a couple of quid more will get you into a SL game?

Broncos need a new home but it should not be a ground share with Skolars.


It's not that simple. The trick is to schedule to ensure that each week there's a pro fixture in the capital.

#31 The Parksider

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:14 PM

My point was that there are plenty of soccer grounds actually in London. Why aren't the likes of Saracens and Wasps playing at one of those stadiums? Lack of interest from spectators or London soccer club apathy?

All I know is that the London RU clubs are well supported and achieved good support from a very low base in 1996
and that even though they had to move out of London to find soccer clubs who'd allow RU on their grounds (Watford, Reading, Wycombe) they STILL got good support......

#32 slowdive

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 08:58 PM

All I know is that the London RU clubs are well supported and achieved good support from a very low base in 1996
and that even though they had to move out of London to find soccer clubs who'd allow RU on their grounds (Watford, Reading, Wycombe) they STILL got good support......

I'm not sure their support was all that fantastic. My impression was that those London clubs who moved out tended to fair worse than than other clubs in terms of attendances.
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#33 The Parksider

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 09:07 PM

I'm not sure their support was all that fantastic. My impression was that those London clubs who moved out tended to fair worse than than other clubs in terms of attendances.

I fear talking RU on an RL website but I believe Sarries, Irish, and Wasps have crowds many RL clubs in the north would covet and some of the London double header RU specials have attracted crowds only the RL challenge cup can match.

We're on a loser arguing RU in London isn't doing very well, as much as I'd like to spin it that way.

#34 Mr Wind Up

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 12:29 AM

There are two London based RU clubs: Harlequins and Saracens, and even Saracens are only recently back in London proper. Listing those other clubs and calling them London based is the equivalent of calling Warrington and St Helens Liverpool clubs.

 

There are also reports today that the new ownership at Wasps are looking for a site in west London as a new home. 


Edited by Mr Wind Up, 11 April 2013 - 12:32 AM.


#35 deluded pom?

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:20 AM

I fear talking RU on an RL website but I believe Sarries, Irish, and Wasps have crowds many RL clubs in the north would covet and some of the London double header RU specials have attracted crowds only the RL challenge cup can match.

We're on a loser arguing RU in London isn't doing very well, as much as I'd like to spin it that way.

 You were the one who introduced RU to the discussion Parky. Do these massive double headers make any money?


Edited by deluded pom?, 11 April 2013 - 07:20 AM.

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#36 Kenny Bania

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 07:33 AM

There are two London based RU clubs: Harlequins and Saracens, and even Saracens are only recently back in London proper. Listing those other clubs and calling them London based is the equivalent of calling Warrington and St Helens Liverpool clubs.
 
There are also reports today that the new ownership at Wasps are looking for a site in west London as a new home.

Wasps would be a logical fit to share with Brentford if/when Lionel Road happens. Talking of those 'London' RU clubs who don't play in London, a colleague told me London Irish are known as the 'Not Nots'. Because they aren't Irish and they don't play in London

#37 Pottsy

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

How about getting things back on topic as I suspect, whichever way we try to twist the facts, taking on London rugby union is an argument we can't win.

#38 The Parksider

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:26 AM

You were the one who introduced RU to the discussion Parky. Do these massive double headers make any money?

And your the one taking it further into a pure Union discussion.

I'll stick with Union will be pleased in Broncos go.

#39 Pottsy

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 11:54 AM

And your the one taking it further into a pure Union discussion.

I'll stick with Union will be pleased in Broncos go.


Regardless of whether the double headers and Wembley showcases make money, we'd be delighted to get 80,000 to a regular season game - let alone in London.

Regardless on which zone the clubs happen to be based in, rugby union is going great guns at all levels in and around the M25. It would be churlish to suggest otherwise.

We'd be far better thinking about London Broncos and figuring out how they can somehow knit together the patches of positive development in and around the capital.

#40 keighley

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

If Broncos continue to decline and if Skolars or Hemel or both get to the championship, there coild well,be a debate about which club in London is the most progressive and vasluable to the future of league in London.






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