Jump to content


Rugby League World Issue 402

Try our Fantastic 5-Issue Bundle Offer! For just £18, a saving of 10% on the regular cover price, you’ll get:
The Play-offs Issue - pictured (out 12 Sept) – Covering the climax of the Super League & Championship seasons
The Grand Finals Issue (out 17 Oct) – Grand Final excitement from both sides of the world plus Four Nations preview
The Four Nations Issue (out 21 Nov) – Fantastic coverage of the Four Nations tournament down under
The Golden Boot Issue (out 19 Dec) – A look back at the 2014 season plus the big reveal of the winner of the Golden Boot
The 2015 Season Preview Issue (out 23 Jan) – How will your team perform in 2015? We preview every club.


League Express

Podcast

Photo
- - - - -

Kingstone Press Championship One - Week 2


  • Please log in to reply
74 replies to this topic

Poll: Which game are you most looking forward to? (19 member(s) have cast votes)

Which game are you most looking forward to?

  1. Oxford v South Wales Scorpions (2 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  2. North Wales Crusaders v London Skolars (8 votes [42.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

  3. Gloucestershire All Golds v Oldham (2 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  4. Hemel Stags v Gateshead Thunder (7 votes [36.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 36.84%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#41 Chronicler of Chiswick

Chronicler of Chiswick
  • Coach
  • 2,476 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:51 AM

By the standards of the division Crusaders are a large team, particularly in the forwards, and I had the impression that the tactics were to just keep battering the Skolars in the first half without worrying too much about scoring and then go for them in the second stanza (nice Stevo touch!) when they were bewildered and exhausted.



#42 audois

audois
  • Coach
  • 2,019 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:17 AM

By the standards of the division Crusaders are a large team, particularly in the forwards, and I had the impression that the tactics were to just keep battering the Skolars in the first half without worrying too much about scoring and then go for them in the second stanza (nice Stevo touch!) when they were bewildered and exhausted.

I noticed that they didn't give the former Prestatyn winger Weaver a run out yesterday after a hat trick of tries against West Hull. How many Welsh lads involved presently.
si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#43 Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster
  • Coach
  • 1,685 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

Does that matter if there were any Welsh lads are not? How many Swinton born players are in the Swinton team? The people of Wrexham wanted a RL team and they have one. Surely thats good. I spoke to Clive at the Ince .v. Hemel game and he rates Weaver and has plans for him but Crusaders have a large squad, because they are well run off the pitch, and they have to try and keep all the players happy. I expect Weaver and a few of the other "fringe" players to turn out at Hemel next Tuesday so you can go and see him if you are that concerned. I will be there, but as much to watch Mike Forgham as the Crusaders players.



#44 audois

audois
  • Coach
  • 2,019 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 12:05 PM

Does that matter if there were any Welsh lads are not? How many Swinton born players are in the Swinton team? The people of Wrexham wanted a RL team and they have one. Surely thats good. I spoke to Clive at the Ince .v. Hemel game and he rates Weaver and has plans for him but Crusaders have a large squad, because they are well run off the pitch, and they have to try and keep all the players happy. I expect Weaver and a few of the other "fringe" players to turn out at Hemel next Tuesday so you can go and see him if you are that concerned. I will be there, but as much to watch Mike Forgham as the Crusaders players.

I think it does. Certainly in the long term. Both the Wrexham club and Neath set ups are about getting Welsh lads involved. They need a set up too of junior feeder clubs. Fulham in their earlier days finished up training at Newton le Willows. I wouldn't like to see North Wales follow that model.
si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

#45 keighley

keighley
  • Coach
  • 5,383 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

I think it does. Certainly in the long term. Both the Wrexham club and Neath set ups are about getting Welsh lads involved. They need a set up too of junior feeder clubs. Fulham in their earlier days finished up training at Newton le Willows. I wouldn't like to see North Wales follow that model.

 

Crusaders have one of the best coaches in RL or RU for that matter in Clive Griffiths and why he dosn't have a SL coaches job is a mystery to me.

 

He took the Cusaders to the cusp of the playoffs last year in a much stronger division than this season and with a team assembled at the last minure from scratch.

 

This year, i expect, that Crusaders will dominate this league. They have the best ground, the biggest crowds and a seemingly progressive and competent management team.

 

Griffiths is Welsh and has a great knowldge of Welsh RU. he is also a renowned RL coach and will be well aware of the need rto produce players and set up amatuer teams in and near Wrexham and I believe this is being done.

 

If he gets the Crusaders promoted, welsh players or not, this will have a knock on effect for attracting future Welsh players to the team.

 

Fortunately Wrexham is quite close to Lancashire and Cheshire and so I see no need for their northern based players to have to have a northern training base as per the example of the London team that you instanced.

 

I think Crusaders will be there or thereabouts at the end of this season and the fact that they are not a dual registered

organisation will make that an even more impressive achievment.



#46 Lobbygobbler

Lobbygobbler
  • Coach
  • 5,797 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 01:48 PM

Crusaders have one of the best coaches in RL or RU for that matter in Clive Griffiths and why he dosn't have a SL coaches job is a mystery to me.

He took the Cusaders to the cusp of the playoffs last year in a much stronger division than this season and with a team assembled at the last minure from scratch.

This year, i expect, that Crusaders will dominate this league. They have the best ground, the biggest crowds and a seemingly progressive and competent management team.

Griffiths is Welsh and has a great knowldge of Welsh RU. he is also a renowned RL coach and will be well aware of the need rto produce players and set up amatuer teams in and near Wrexham and I believe this is being done.

If he gets the Crusaders promoted, welsh players or not, this will have a knock on effect for attracting future Welsh players to the team.

Fortunately Wrexham is quite close to Lancashire and Cheshire and so I see no need for their northern based players to have to have a northern training base as per the example of the London team that you instanced.

I think Crusaders will be there or thereabouts at the end of this season and the fact that they are not a dual registered
organisation will make that an even more impressive achievment.


Its a long shot but if Cru win the NRC this year and go up will they be eligible for SL in 2015?

With P&R we could have had a Welsh team in SL as early as 2015 regardless. That would be mouthwatering

#47 Chronicler of Chiswick

Chronicler of Chiswick
  • Coach
  • 2,476 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:16 PM

Given the 'flexible' nature of the licence system, God alone knows although I hope not as they wouldn't be ready yet. As for Fulham in the Craven Cottage era, the team were always based in Lancashire and trained in various places around Newton-le-Willows and went by coach down to London for the home games.



#48 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,172 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:27 PM

Does that matter if there were any Welsh lads are not? How many Swinton born players are in the Swinton team?

Swinton is a town / borough. Wales is a country. Hardly the same. I'd say that it matters how many English players are in the Swinton side.


Edited by Northern Sol, 15 April 2013 - 02:28 PM.


#49 Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster
  • Coach
  • 1,685 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:34 PM

I didn't realise that Crusaders and Scorpions were set up for the purpose of getting Welsh lads involved in the game. I thought they were set up by businessmen, to give RL a presence in Wales and give the many RL fans in that Country teams of their own to watch. I thought the idea was to get schools playing the game (Done) and set up amateur teams (Done) that will provide players for the future, knowing that a team packed with inexperienced lads now would not survive, and knowing that a successful team, no matter where the players come from, would be more of an attractive proposition. I am born in bred in Salford of English parents but followed Celtic Crusaders from their very first ever league match and still follow Crusaders today, but maybe I should not be allowed to follow a Welsh team. Understand your concerns Audois and I'm not looking for an argument. I think we both support expansion, but I am sick to death of people up here being so negative about first Celtic Crusaders being in the RFL, and now from various sources complaniing North Wales Crusaders are not a "Welsh" team!



#50 welshwire13

welshwire13
  • Players
  • 16 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 02:42 PM

Player development will come at the Crusaders. At the end of the day it has taken the Scorpions three seasons to develop a squad of predominantly Welsh players and this was on the back of having a thriving grassroots game. The grassroots game has made major strides in North Wales over the past twelve months and Wales Rugby League are finally beginning to take notice of goings on here.

 

Clive Griffiths' main concern has been putting a competitive side together for the Crusaders. He's a big believer in young Welsh talent and that should be the next phase for the club. I agree this has been too long coming because the likes of Warrington are already sniffing around young North Walian talent.



#51 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,172 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:02 PM

I didn't realise that Crusaders and Scorpions were set up for the purpose of getting Welsh lads involved in the game. I thought they were set up by businessmen, to give RL a presence in Wales and give the many RL fans in that Country teams of their own to watch. I thought the idea was to get schools playing the game (Done) and set up amateur teams (Done) that will provide players for the future, knowing that a team packed with inexperienced lads now would not survive, and knowing that a successful team, no matter where the players come from, would be more of an attractive proposition. I am born in bred in Salford of English parents but followed Celtic Crusaders from their very first ever league match and still follow Crusaders today, but maybe I should not be allowed to follow a Welsh team. Understand your concerns Audois and I'm not looking for an argument. I think we both support expansion, but I am sick to death of people up here being so negative about first Celtic Crusaders being in the RFL, and now from various sources complaniing North Wales Crusaders are not a "Welsh" team!

If it doesn't matter how many Welsh lads are in the side then why bother getting schools playing the game or setting up amateur sides?

 

Just bus a few NCL players in from Lancashire that's always worked well in the past.

 

Now I'm not saying that's what's happened but it very much matters where the players come from because it's the difference between flash-in-the-pan success (see Celtic Crusaders) and sustained success.

 

If this is to be built on then local players do matter.



#52 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,172 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 03:04 PM

Player development will come at the Crusaders. At the end of the day it has taken the Scorpions three seasons to develop a squad of predominantly Welsh players and this was on the back of having a thriving grassroots game. The grassroots game has made major strides in North Wales over the past twelve months and Wales Rugby League are finally beginning to take notice of goings on here.

 

 

 

Clive Griffiths' main concern has been putting a competitive side together for the Crusaders. He's a big believer in young Welsh talent and that should be the next phase for the club. I agree this has been too long coming because the likes of Warrington are already sniffing around young North Walian talent.

I agree that the environment is different but it's inaccurate to say that only now have Scorpions become predominantly Welsh. In their first season they had one non-Welsh player.



#53 Methven Hornet

Methven Hornet
  • Coach
  • 9,496 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 04:43 PM

I didn't realise that Crusaders and Scorpions were set up for the purpose of getting Welsh lads involved in the game. I thought they were set up by businessmen, to give RL a presence in Wales and give the many RL fans in that Country teams of their own to watch. I thought the idea was to get schools playing the game (Done) and set up amateur teams (Done) that will provide players for the future, knowing that a team packed with inexperienced lads now would not survive, and knowing that a successful team, no matter where the players come from, would be more of an attractive proposition. I am born in bred in Salford of English parents but followed Celtic Crusaders from their very first ever league match and still follow Crusaders today, but maybe I should not be allowed to follow a Welsh team. Understand your concerns Audois and I'm not looking for an argument. I think we both support expansion, but I am sick to death of people up here being so negative about first Celtic Crusaders being in the RFL, and now from various sources complaniing North Wales Crusaders are not a "Welsh" team!

 

I think getting Welsh lads involved in the game was one of the reasons for setting up the Welsh clubs, just as the RFL's aim of having at least one CC1 club in each English region is partly driven by a similar motive of having locally based players. But it isn't the only reason. As you say, the clubs are important in themselves for giving the game a presence in both north and south Wales, and for inspiring the development of the game in those regions; but they are also there to provide playing opportunities for the developing talent in their regions, and to help supply players for the national side.

The old model of expansion, that of training players in Lancs and Yorks and bussing them in to play, wasn't really sustainable, and I do like the fact that the new CC1 is of a standard that new, far-flung clubs can, or will soon be able to, include local talent. We will never have semi-pro clubs that are entirely made up of local players, and that shouldn't really be necessary, but it should be an aim to include a fair number (just as it should for heartland clubs). Crusaders, being so near to Lancashire/Cheshire, need to resist the temptation to see the nearby established player pool as always being the answer. Good luck to them.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#54 Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster
  • Coach
  • 1,685 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 06:35 PM

Phil Davies started the Scorpions for no other reason than he knew there was a market for RL in South Wales when Celtic Crusaders moved North. I watched all of their home games except two in their first season as I had got used to travelling to South Wales every other week, and I prefer Rugby League to Super league. There would be no North Wales Crusaders if Celtic Crusaders had not moved North and Jamie Thomas had not realised that the people of North Wales wanted to watch Rugby League. Without "flash in the pan" Celtic Crusaders and all the hard work that was done there by a lot of good people Rugby League would not exist in Wales now. I have watched Bridgend Blue Bulls, Cynon Valley Cougars and Blackwood Bulldogs many times but where are they now that "flash in the pan" Celtic Crusaders are not there? Of course it matters that they produce Welsh born players, and I love to see Elliott Kear, Gil Dudson and Ben Flower doing so well, while Rob Massam, Lewys Weaver and Owain Brown will also go on to better things, but these clubs will not move forward without the initial input of players from outside the area. Scorpions don't have the same choice as Crusaders in who they sign because of logistical and financial restraints. 



#55 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,172 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:21 PM

Bridgend Bulls existed before Celtic Crusaders. The Welsh league was vibrant before Crusaders. It collapsed after their demise.

 

No-one is saying that the full squad should be Welsh but everything being equal a good Welsh player is more valuable to the game than a good Lanky bussed in for the day. I hope and trust that the new Crusaders are taking local player development seriously. That's their future.


Edited by Northern Sol, 15 April 2013 - 07:23 PM.


#56 Celtic Rooster

Celtic Rooster
  • Coach
  • 1,685 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 08:32 PM

Have you met any of the "bussed in" lads that play for Crusaders? All dedicated. Bridgend had an amateur side competing in the qualifying rounds of the Challenge cup in 1952 and Aberavon had a team in the London league in the mid 80's. There has always been interest in RL in Wales. It just wasn't well developed. There is not much you can tell me about amateur Rugby League. Celtic Crusaders did great work in South Wales which Scorpions are carrying on, and North Wales Crusaders are just as interested in developing Welsh talent as either of them. I just object the inference that North Wales Crusaders are not a Welsh team - Are Swansea City FC a Welsh team? Lets all hope this time it works out. 



#57 AlwaysCru

AlwaysCru
  • Players
  • 50 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:14 PM


Looking at the Crusaders current playing squad it would seem that about a third are Welsh qualified and benefiting from being in a winning regime put together by Griffiths. I'd say for a team in their second year in a development area that's pretty good going and hopefully that third will grow.

I gather they have added under 16's and under 14's this year to last year 18's and just two weeks ago set up a wheelchair team. I don't think anyone can knock the effort of everyone involved to make the sport grow in Wales and what Cru and scorpions are doing should be commended...

What is fair to say is that Clive has brought some key players in from over the border but in the vast majority of cases he's taken boys from amateur clubs and given them a chance to step up at this level and they're repaying in spades. Plus the likes of Moulsdale and Durbin had been cast aside by the pro game and have now been resurrected.

On top of that they stayed away from DR offers on the basis of giving more opportunities to their squad including local players so its hard to criticise really....

#58 PhilCarrington

PhilCarrington
  • Coach
  • 213 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:29 PM

I didn't realise that Crusaders and Scorpions were set up for the purpose of getting Welsh lads involved in the game. I thought they were set up by businessmen, to give RL a presence in Wales and give the many RL fans in that Country teams of their own to watch. I thought the idea was to get schools playing the game (Done) and set up amateur teams (Done) that will provide players for the future, knowing that a team packed with inexperienced lads now would not survive, and knowing that a successful team, no matter where the players come from, would be more of an attractive proposition. I am born in bred in Salford of English parents but followed Celtic Crusaders from their very first ever league match and still follow Crusaders today, but maybe I should not be allowed to follow a Welsh team. Understand your concerns Audois and I'm not looking for an argument. I think we both support expansion, but I am sick to death of people up here being so negative about first Celtic Crusaders being in the RFL, and now from various sources complaniing North Wales Crusaders are not a "Welsh" team!

Maybe they weren't set up for the purpose of getting Welsh lads invoived, but at the start Scorpions did say 99% of the players would be Welsh. Reality has hit, which is no great surprise, though good to see they've still got a sizeable proportion of Welsh in the side.



#59 Northern Sol

Northern Sol
  • Moderator
  • 17,172 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

Have you met any of the "bussed in" lads that play for Crusaders? All dedicated. Bridgend had an amateur side competing in the qualifying rounds of the Challenge cup in 1952 and Aberavon had a team in the London league in the mid 80's. There has always been interest in RL in Wales. It just wasn't well developed. There is not much you can tell me about amateur Rugby League. Celtic Crusaders did great work in South Wales which Scorpions are carrying on, and North Wales Crusaders are just as interested in developing Welsh talent as either of them. I just object the inference that North Wales Crusaders are not a Welsh team - Are Swansea City FC a Welsh team? Lets all hope this time it works out. 

Dedicated or not, it is a weakness to be dependent on players from outside the area. 



#60 audois

audois
  • Coach
  • 2,019 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 09:36 PM

Have you met any of the "bussed in" lads that play for Crusaders? All dedicated. Bridgend had an amateur side competing in the qualifying rounds of the Challenge cup in 1952 and Aberavon had a team in the London league in the mid 80's. There has always been interest in RL in Wales. It just wasn't well developed. There is not much you can tell me about amateur Rugby League. Celtic Crusaders did great work in South Wales which Scorpions are carrying on, and North Wales Crusaders are just as interested in developing Welsh talent as either of them. I just object the inference that North Wales Crusaders are not a Welsh team - Are Swansea City FC a Welsh team? Lets all hope this time it works out.

The recent posters here are 100% I'm sure behind both Welsh clubs and what they're trying to achieve. We just don't want to see the Wrexham club follow much earlier expansion clubs such as Blackpool Borough who always seemed dependent on a couple of mini buses ferrying lads up from South Lancs. I think you have to try and make the rugby league culture relevant to where you are. Having a nucleus of players who live local and seen around the town and the area helps to make that happen. I recognise that it can't happen overnight but it must be a goal.

Edited by audois, 15 April 2013 - 09:39 PM.

si tu (remi casty) devais envoyer un fax au president guasch?
"Un grand bravo pour tout ce que vous avez fait, et merci de m'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure."


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959


"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"
Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users