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Calder, it is time?


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#181 Padge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:25 PM

But we did have P&R within the same league. Clubs fixtures against teams from the "other league" improved or declined depending upon where they'd finished the previous season.  Ok you couldn't be relegated from the Rugby League, but your status within that league could alter.  One of the major reasons for the split with Union was that they definitely didn't like the competitive edge league and cup comps gave.  They preferred the more "gentlemanly" atmosphere of perpetual friendlies.

How can you have P&R in the same league.

 

It was one league of 30(ish) clubs depending on year, and it had no P&R, nobody was ever promoted and nobody was ever relegated.

 

To try and pretend we have had P&R for ever is an utter nonsense and you know it.



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#182 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:48 PM

Jurassic Park is a work of fiction. Fev'sdrive for Super League is not. If they do achieve Mr.. pencil's dream, then they will need the very glory hunting fans he so despiseS if they are to stay there...and that will be I think at the expense of wakie and case. So no net gain.

I do not despise glory supporters, never said that. I don't understand them but certainly don't despise them, I have many mates who support Man Utd. I think they are pretty sad supporting a club from over the pennines but I don't despise them.

Try putting more words into my mouth if you want.
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#183 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

Actually as a progressive fan of the game I couldn't care less what the three clubs do, they can fight it out. The sad thing is two out of the three will suffer badly. They won't die, they will continue, but the sad fact is that the fight to be top dog will not be pleasant.

What do you mean progressive fan. You support bloody Wigan and I support Fev what's the difference. I suppose I will get the usual I only care about Fev rubbish and you love all parts of the game. I bet if your club went through what mine has you would see things differently.

For example what are the likes of you doing to boost the much needed (according to the forum mafia) London club? Going to watch Wigan away once a year in London is not classed as help. Surely a so called progressive fan would give up watching some Wigan games to support London. You can't say London is too far away because I am sure you have made past Wembley finals to watch your beloved Wigan. Progressive fan my botty.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#184 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:13 PM

Having read comments from the people that matter i.e. The people who live in the area and/or support the clubs concerned, it seems to me that there is no perceived need, or desire for a merger.

Could we perhaps leave it at that and respectfully ask those poking their noses in to mind their own business?

How astonishingly arrogant and naive but if burying your head in the sand is of comfort to you then I suppose crack on.

Just to clarify though, the people that "matter" here are those throughout the entire rugby league fraternity and even beyond. What's at stake here is not simply how we structure Super League in the Calder region but rather how we continue to grow demand and revenue for the entire top flight and thus the game overall. I'm afraid that as Cas and to a slightly lesser extent Wakey (and to a slightly lesser extent again, Hull KR and Widnes) continue to stink up Super League with their pitiful facilities and resources and lack of "go forward" vision, the league as a whole loses credibility and vital TV and commercial revenues. It's not something that we can take lightly or leave in the hands of a few blinkered blow-hard traditionalists like yourself.

Everyone matters and you might not ultimately have any say when it comes down to it. That's the long and short of it.

#185 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:17 PM

As for the Fev fans smug rejoicing in the face of their home defeat (that's right, defeat) by Wigan, this is hardly any great achievement or ushering in of a new dawn. It's just a good performance on the back of a strong 2nd tier season, no different to Hull KR beating Wire a few years back off similar momentum. A couple of miserable Super League seasons under your belt and they'd crush you without breaking a sweat. Deep down you all know this but of course who am I to stand in the way of your dream to "rub shoulders with" (ie never genuinely threaten) the big boys again?

#186 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:22 PM

How astonishingly arrogant and naive

No that's you all day long. Just because you have ideas for the game does not make then right.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#187 OMEGA

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:23 PM

The crucial aspect the staunch Wakey, Cas and Fev fans forget is that - without knowing a great deal about them - I'm guessing they're of a certain age and were thus born during or not long after periods of success or genuine competitiveness, back when those teams had no inferiority complex to the likes of Leeds and the other (now) big boys and games between them were a coin toss. The kids growing up in those areas now will have the same degree of local pride (of course) but Parky's hit the nail on the head - they want Super League and - more crucially - a team without such an inferiority complex. There's really no getting away from that, however passionate you are about your historic club. Parky is right that left to their own devices these fanbases will slowly erode year in, year out with every calibre player departure and every passing around the terraces of the bucket to stave off the administrator. That just isn't an attractive proposition to kids. The posters on here are actually selfish IMHO because they never had to put up with that in their own youth yet expect future generations to do so in their name and merely to prolong an archaic, out-of-date structure so they themselves can die knowing that they were "Wakey/Cas/Fev to the end", whatever this means. If the Hull clubs merge - and I suspect they will at some point - I will embrace the new club and consider myself no less "Hull KR til the end" than the King Canutes noisily drowning in their own self-pity (who, incidentally, will be long forgotten only a few years down the line). If anyone here has an issue with that, fine. I'd rather enjoy a level playing field and see good rugby week in, week out than waste my energy on a lost cause.

I don't like Parky's idea of just allowing Cas and Fev to rot and Wakey to cash-in, for 2 reasons:

(1) It's cowardly and dishonest, and
(2) It's potentially divisive. A go-alone SL Wakey might have the pick of the Cas and Fev kids for their fanbase but when they tour schools etc. there would still be an element of the pillaging invader about them and the inevitable animosity from the elders - whilst often no more than petulance at not getting their way - would nonetheless have more credence. As a Cas or Fev kid you'd feel like something of a traitor or hanger-on following that side, whereas a club called Calder is no less yours than anyone else in that region and would be a source of great pride to those kids. The same is true of Hull and potentially Hudds/Halifax and Warrington/Widnes if it needs to be done there as well. Waiting for 1 of the sides to consume or overpower the other(s) is simply the wrong and weasly way to go.

Calder needs to be done so let's do it right. Wakey fans have no greater claim to a lone Calder SL franchise than Cas or Fev. That they are currently a bit stronger should be irrelevant. RL for once needs a brave and joined-up approach to a difficult issue.

 

 

We are not forgetting anything, what you and many others are failing to see is that there is no desire for a 'Calder' franchise or team, no one from any of the three clubs that everyone seems to want to dictate to wants to merge or collaborate.

 

Open your ears and listen to whats being said and get a new toy to play with,

WE ARE NOT INTERESTED!



#188 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:25 PM

No that's you all day long. Just because you have ideas for the game does not make then right.

I have never claimed that my opinions are the only ones that matter though, I merely give my opinion. The merger opponents are losing the plot and IMHO this debate.

#189 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:27 PM

We are not forgetting anything, what you and many others are failing to see is that there is no desire for a 'Calder' franchise or team, no one from any of the three clubs that everyone seems to want to dictate to wants to merge or collaborate.
 
Open your ears and listen to whats being said and get a new toy to play with,
WE ARE NOT INTERESTED!

There is desire for a merged Calder side from very many people in this thread or have you not been reading? That they are generally not from Calder is irrelevant don't you think? The sport of rugby league is bigger than the Calder region.

#190 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:39 PM

There is desire for a merged Calder side from very many people in this thread or have you not been reading? That they are generally not from Calder is irrelevant don't you think? The sport of rugby league is bigger than the Calder region.

What utter garbage. So because you and a few others want a merged team then you automatically believe you should have it. I wanted 6 numbers on the lotto last night but #### happens. A merged club will only happen if the fans of the 3 clubs want it to and unless you are totally naive the feeling is that we have 3 great clubs who want to battle on as we are.

So sorry to pee on your master plan but we are not going to merge any time soon so you will just have to accept it.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#191 Padge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

What utter garbage. So because you and a few others want a merged team then you automatically believe you should have it. I wanted 6 numbers on the lotto last night but #### happens. A merged club will only happen if the fans of the 3 clubs want it to and unless you are totally naive the feeling is that we have 3 great clubs who want to battle on as we are.

So sorry to pee on your master plan but we are not going to merge any time soon so you will just have to accept it.

the fans have no say at all. They can be noisy, they can sulk, they have no say.



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#192 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:45 PM

the fans have no say at all. They can be noisy, they can sulk, they have no say.

So explain how the merger is going to take place against BODS who don't want it and supporters who don't want it? Believe it or not even you and the rest of the forum mafia can't force this one through.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#193 Ashcroft

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:54 PM

And the fans do have a say. They vote with their feet. Generally, fans of Wakefield/Castleford/Featherstone are not in the least interested in a merged club. It's never going to happen and the "idea" needs burying once and for all. 



#194 oldrover

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:54 PM

the fans have no say at all. They can be noisy, they can sulk, they have no say.

try precedence


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#195 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:03 PM

And the fans do have a say. They vote with their feet. Generally, fans of Wakefield/Castleford/Featherstone are not in the least interested in a merged club. It's never going to happen and the "idea" needs burying once and for all.

+1
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#196 Padge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:05 PM

So explain how the merger is going to take place against BODS who don't want it and supporters who don't want it? Believe it or not even you and the rest of the forum mafia can't force this one through.

I never mentioned BODS, thewy are the ones who have the say, not the fans.

 

Fans may think they are all powerful, they are not.

 

And the fans do have a say. They vote with their feet. Generally, fans of Wakefield/Castleford/Featherstone are not in the least interested in a merged club. It's never going to happen and the "idea" needs burying once and for all. 

They can take their feet where they like, their feet don't get one vote between the two of them.



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#197 Ponterover

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:09 PM

There is desire for a merged Calder side from very many people in this thread or have you not been reading? That they are generally not from Calder is irrelevant don't you think? The sport of rugby league is bigger than the Calder region.

I'd hardly call three or four patronising morons, pontificating on the future of clubs that are nothing to do with them "very many".


PLEASE GET THIS INTO YOUR SKULL:

Cas don't want it
Fev don't want it
Wakey don't want it

You and a few others wanting does not make it a good idea.

Please move on and bore someone else.

#198 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:10 PM

I never mentioned BODS, thewy are the ones who have the say, not the fans.
 
Fans may think they are all powerful, they are not.

But the BODS don't want it either because they are also fans so I am afraid your knocking.
"You cant be scared of death. When that time comes, it comes....I've been blessed. God's looked out for me, so, I'm happy." -Sean Taylor, #21, Washington Redskins

#199 Padge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:12 PM

I'd hardly call three or four patronising morons, pontificating on the future of clubs that are nothing to do with them "very many".


PLEASE GET THIS INTO YOUR SKULL:

Cas don't want it
Fev don't want it
Wakey don't want it

You and a few others wanting does not make it a good idea.

Please move on and bore someone else.

If the subject bores you then don't get involved.

 

I couldn't care less what the 3 clubs do, however I do find the discussion interesting.



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#200 Ponterover

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:14 PM

If the subject bores you then don't get involved.
 
I couldn't care less what the 3 clubs do, however I do find the discussion interesting.

The subject bores me because the issue was put to bed around 18 years ago.

It is however a subject that naturally, I care very deeply about.




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