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Calder, it is time?


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#221 gnidir

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:51 AM

Please get real Keeny.

This "Calder" club cannot happen until 2015 by which time Chase and Clark will be gone.



By 2015 2,500 Fev fans will be lining up for Superleague at last. Do you really think they will back Calder under those circumstances. Again get real. Let's debate rugby League not fantasy Rugby league.

Mr. Glover is the leading light at Wakefield and he must be looking forward to putting well over the current 8,000 into Newmarket and kicking on from there.

Do you want to write to him and ask him if he's going to abandon that and set up a Calder club there?? Shall I write and ask??

What do you think 8,000 Wakefield Trinity fans would say if told 2015 will be Calder United??

With the shaky prospect of whether this will work or not which big name players will the club sign with whose money??

Or will players decide there's a more secure salary and future going to Hull and Leeds as ussual. How is a club that many locals will have a massive animosity to be attractive to the next Darryl Clark??

When you intimate that people are sympathetic to the idea on this thread, how many exactly and out of those who will go??

you say "The combined commercial opportunities would help plug any initial losses".

On what evidence? Surely the main sponsors of all three clubs are fans of those clubs. Have you checked if they are for a Calder United because I bet they are not.

You are a very naughty boy pitching for a Calder United yet telling us all is OK in Hull, Rovers just need to work out how to get 15,000 crowds.


I have to say, on the point of sponsors, don't you think we should be looking for main sponsors of our clubs to be from market leaders in a business sector? Isn't that what we are aiming at through putting the game on TV?

If we only want to aim for local benefactors to back our sport, then why televise the game at all? This is a particular irk of mine. Often people criticise the league for not attracting big sponsors, but the clubs themselves devalue the competition by failing to realise the true value which skysport provides.
Returning to the original question, it's where do we want to be at the top level if our sport, do we want the multinational superleague which created such hype when it was proposed back in the 90s, or are we happy to stay as we are and hope the growth of so many other sports, especially after such a successful Olympics, does not affect us?

#222 OMEGA

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 08:56 AM

I love all these analogies with "family", 'Highland clans' etc...
It really shows zero understanding of the area and it's people.

I've lived here all my life, over 50 years, and if we were forced into some kind of merger we wouldn't be another West Tigers or St George Illawarra, we wouldn't even be the next Gateshull or Shuddersfield. We'd become the next Yugoslavia with separated cultures, a splintered fan base, uniquely different people who just do not blend or mix and it would end in disaster?

#223 oldrover

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:03 AM

I have to say, on the point of sponsors, don't you think we should be looking for main sponsors of our clubs to be from market leaders in a business sector? Isn't that what we are aiming at through putting the game on TV?

If we only want to aim for local benefactors to back our sport, then why televise the game at all? This is a particular irk of mine. Often people criticise the league for not attracting big sponsors, but the clubs themselves devalue the competition by failing to realise the true value which skysport provides.
Returning to the original question, it's where do we want to be at the top level if our sport, do we want the multinational superleague which created such hype when it was proposed back in the 90s, or are we happy to stay as we are and hope the growth of so many other sports, especially after such a successful Olympics, does not affect us?

in the case of fev, i don't think mr Nahaboo is "local".


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#224 Mumby Magic

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

There are 12 pages on here but I would still ask why? What is the benefit.

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#225 The Parksider

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

1. Alle 'bloody' luia. Well said Parky. How the hell is it all going to be financed when nobody but the dreamers on here think its a good idea? Huddersfield, Bradford and Fax are playing to a similar aggregate audience so we might as well throw them into the mix as well. I'm sure we'll find replacements for Ken Davy and the chap at the Bulls whose name escapes me.

2. If the predicted changes to the game's structure do come to pass then all three Calder clubs may well be playing and flourishing in SL sooner than some people think.

1. Yes IMHO the Bradford/Halifax/Huddersfield area also suffers from having 15,000 paying fans, good local sponsors and up to 20 quality local born professionals.

Enough resources for one club, plus there's a super stadium and a ricj backer and a couple of cracking business minds to boot.

This would be enough to blow the Wigans and Leeds out of the water, and turn a fine profit to strengthen the game but sadly the resources are over stretched to preserve three failing/failed clubs.

This is IMHO only of course, it may be more clubs is best, I'd like to hear the argument why.

2. I dunno what the 2015 format will be Terry, Or how many Wakefield Met clubs will be in it.

#226 The Parksider

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:28 AM

There are 12 pages on here but I would still ask why? What is the benefit.

The benefit of mergers is theoretical only at this point.

In that if RL has a possible 160,000 paying fans, and if you give them only 10 clubs to support all based on a region or a big city like Cheshire, Bradhuddersfax, London. Wigan Met, Calder, Humberside it is in theory possible you may end up possibly instantaneously with 10 clubs on 16,000 crowds.

Big profits and salaries all round.

The discussion aims to work out the chances of this happening, and I think the vast majority of posters to this thread think the chances are close to zero. But Mr. Keen still has the opportunity to rescue the debate.

#227 The Parksider

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

I have to say, on the point of sponsors, don't you think we should be looking for main sponsors of our clubs to be from market leaders in a business sector? Isn't that what we are aiming at through putting the game on TV?

If we only want to aim for local benefactors to back our sport, then why televise the game at all? This is a particular irk of mine. Often people criticise the league for not attracting big sponsors, but the clubs themselves devalue the competition by failing to realise the true value which skysport provides.
Returning to the original question, it's where do we want to be at the top level if our sport, do we want the multinational superleague which created such hype when it was proposed back in the 90s, or are we happy to stay as we are and hope the growth of so many other sports, especially after such a successful Olympics, does not affect us?

I don't know, I think that SKY money in a deal where RFL supply an Elite League for TV, and SKY supply tens of millions of pounds was the main point.

After that I suppose the clubs may have dreamed of carrying national sponsors on their shirts, Hovis, Tetleys, Co-op, Tesco, Carlsberg, etc etc. Maybe that's only for clubs who are on TV proper and not hidden away on a subscription channel.

I also think clubs will take sponsors at every level, from British Aerospace to Mr & Mrs Jones who sponsor Kevin Sinfield's half time orange.

I'm sure we want the multinational superleage too, can't afford to stand still in business, it's a matter of getting there.

#228 The Parksider

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 09:45 AM

The question posed is what's best for the game, and there are differing views.
If it was cas v Wakefield in a competition outside superleague, I imagine it would still draw a crowd, if feisal nahaboo was offered superleague tomorrow provided he financially backed it, would he? I tend to think so
I just wonder, no I actually think that for the game to really prosper Into the competition it aimed to be, we need to look at where we want to be and act, in saying that, I think we can preserve the history and move to the future, it must be better than 3 clubs strangling each other in a pitfight, or am I hopelessly optimistic on this one?

Hmmm can't find any Cas.v.Wakefield crowds outside top division ones.

In 1987/8 Fev and Wakefield were chasing promotion and the two crowds were 3,500 at Fev and 4,300 at Wakey.

Your not hopelessly optimistic.there is a chance IMHO the ten club proposal may come off and tose clubs strangling each other be separated. 2015 will be ultra fascinating.

#229 Ponterover

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:21 AM

Please get real Keeny.

This "Calder" club cannot happen until 2015 by which time Chase and Clark will be gone.

By 2015 2,500 Fev fans will be lining up for Superleague at last. Do you really think they will back Calder under those circumstances. Again get real. Let's debate rugby League not fantasy Rugby league.

Mr. Glover is the leading light at Wakefield and he must be looking forward to putting well over the current 8,000 into Newmarket and kicking on from there.

Do you want to write to him and ask him if he's going to abandon that and set up a Calder club there?? Shall I write and ask??

What do you think 8,000 Wakefield Trinity fans would say if told 2015 will be Calder United??

With the shaky prospect of whether this will work or not which big name players will the club sign with whose money??

Or will players decide there's a more secure salary and future going to Hull and Leeds as ussual. How is a club that many locals will have a massive animosity to be attractive to the next Darryl Clark??

When you intimate that people are sympathetic to the idea on this thread, how many exactly and out of those who will go??

you say "The combined commercial opportunities would help plug any initial losses".

On what evidence? Surely the main sponsors of all three clubs are fans of those clubs. Have you checked if they are for a Calder United because I bet they are not.

You are a very naughty boy pitching for a Calder United yet telling us all is OK in Hull, Rovers just need to work out how to get 15,000 crowds.

Parky, that's one of the best posts I've ever read.

Summed up the situation perfectly, it's a shame that serial fantasists like DSK can't see sense.

#230 Ponterover

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:22 AM

A little message for all these pro-merger people from outside the area (it's certainly not called Calder)
 

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#231 Wiltshire Rhino

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:34 AM

When it comes to mergers I think all rugby league clubs should merge into one great big super club and play with ourselves!

Or maybe not. ;-)

#232 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:37 AM

I note that this "go ahead" Wakefield side you're all raving about just signed their 19 year-old Academy star as a result of the "1873 Club" - a deal that sees fans pay £2 a week to pay young players' wages.

This is all getting a bit embarrassing now isn't it?

Do we bite the bullet now or in 5 years time?

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 23 April 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#233 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:42 AM

Please get real Keeny.

This "Calder" club cannot happen until 2015 by which time Chase and Clark will be gone.

By 2015 2,500 Fev fans will be lining up for Superleague at last. Do you really think they will back Calder under those circumstances. Again get real. Let's debate rugby League not fantasy Rugby league.

Mr. Glover is the leading light at Wakefield and he must be looking forward to putting well over the current 8,000 into Newmarket and kicking on from there.

Do you want to write to him and ask him if he's going to abandon that and set up a Calder club there?? Shall I write and ask??

What do you think 8,000 Wakefield Trinity fans would say if told 2015 will be Calder United??

With the shaky prospect of whether this will work or not which big name players will the club sign with whose money??

Or will players decide there's a more secure salary and future going to Hull and Leeds as ussual. How is a club that many locals will have a massive animosity to be attractive to the next Darryl Clark??

When you intimate that people are sympathetic to the idea on this thread, how many exactly and out of those who will go??

you say "The combined commercial opportunities would help plug any initial losses".

On what evidence? Surely the main sponsors of all three clubs are fans of those clubs. Have you checked if they are for a Calder United because I bet they are not.

You are a very naughty boy pitching for a Calder United yet telling us all is OK in Hull, Rovers just need to work out how to get 15,000 crowds.

Has anyone asked Chase and Clark if they would fancy being poster boys for a bright new club with a genuine future? It's ridiculous to think that even the most hot-headed merger opponent would display animosity to any players. I think both players would relish the role, only because I know I would in their shoes. I'd certainly favour it to wasting another second of my career at a perennial underdog who could go bust at any given moment.

The alternative, of course, is losing them to the region altogether, which is merely a matter of time if the current Calder mess is allowed to continue.

Calder reaps what it sows.

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 23 April 2013 - 11:46 AM.


#234 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:44 AM

None of this changes the facts of life. There is just not the money, the players, the support, the facilities, the sponsors etc to support more than one SL club in the Wakefordstone area.

The current situation, where one SL wanabee club is flexing it's muscles in a bid to join the big boys, is good for that club and it's loyal fans and will no doubt spur the other two on.

However, such family squabbling will do no club any good in the long term and will sentence all three to continue as SLs perpetual under achievers.

Ok, so the clubs won't merge of their own volition. But in the end, one will become dominant, the 'bettsr dead than red ' brigade will be extinct and there will be just one SL club in the area. And that club could be a really competitive one, a winner, something the fans have deserved for a long long time.

Meanwhile, a lot of people will have lost a lot of money in a pointless family squabble. The enemy is at the gates, but the embattled occupants still fight amongst themselves.

In the end, it's not the RFL, it's not SL, it's not the BODs, it's not even the fans that will decide the outcome. It is inevitable

Very well put sir.

#235 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:56 AM

I note that this "go ahead" Wakefield side you're all raving about just signed their 19 year-old Academy star as a result of the "1873 Club" - a deal that sees fans pay £2 a week to pay young players' wages.

This is all getting a bit embarrassing now isn't it?

Wakefield have just come out of financial collapse this last year or so.

Wakefield are still to sort out their new ground that has the facilities to increase the crowd and the take per head.

Wakefield are still rebuilding their team.

On all three counts they are making progress. If they get the lone gig in a new smaller Super League that will help them progress even further.

Good business practice is to plan, take only calculated risks, work hard towards the goals, and not expect any great results for at least five years.

If you think that what you have presented to me (very little) is justification for jumping in with both feet on a massive gamble, then it simply is not. That's IMHO - anyone agree with me or not??

Edited by The Parksider, 23 April 2013 - 11:59 AM.


#236 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:03 PM

Has anyone asked Chase and Clark if they would fancy being poster boys for a bright new club with a genuine future? It's ridiculous to think that even the most hot-headed merger opponent would display animosity to any players. I think both players would relish the role, only because I know I would in their shoes. I'd certainly favour it to wasting another second of my career at a perennial underdog who could go bust at any given moment.

Your not making any sense now and TBF you usually do.

Chase can't get a transfer to another English club which Calder United would be, and he's got a deal back in the NRL.

Clarke knows he's been touted as another Roby, and has the chance to go to the games richest club who are winning cups.

Do you really believe these two would stay at Castleford (when the club want them out)on the idea a "Calder United" may happen in 2015.

With respect Calder United exists only in your head.

Edited by The Parksider, 23 April 2013 - 12:04 PM.


#237 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:12 PM

Very well put sir.

I think when John said "Ok, so the clubs won't merge of their own volition. But in the end, one will become dominant, the 'better dead than red ' brigade will be extinct and there will be just one SL club in the area. And that club could be a really competitive one, a winner, something the fans have deserved for a long long time" it was very well put.

But (and I seek clarity Mr. M.) I took that as suggesting one existing club eventually dominating would be the key and not a three way merger?

Perhaps we now agree??

#238 thundergaz

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:14 PM

Their is only one club in our area that is struggling at this present time and we all know who that is. Featherstone rovers is my team and we've been in the championship leagues ever since they started and we have had our fair share of ups and downs especially the downs. Our club as never been better run than it is today even when we were in the old top flight. We may never get the chance of top flight rugby who knows but I've watched my team on its hands and knees playing in the champ one with only die hards turning up to watch. What I'm trying to say is I would rather watch featherstone rovers no matter how good or bad we are than a so called Calder team. My club is on the up for the first time in a long time and the people behind this are/have done/doing a great job and most of you are suggesting to throw all this hard work away and form a Calder team that would have an average attendance of 3k at the very best? CALDER WOULD NEVER WORK get it into your heads. It was suggested when SL first came on the scene and look what happened then. No person who supports Cas Fev and wakey want it so its dead in the water before it starts.

Edited by thundergaz, 23 April 2013 - 12:17 PM.


#239 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

My club is on the up for the first time in a long time and the people behind this are/have done/doing a great job and most of you are suggesting to throw all this hard work away and form a Calder team that would have an average attendance of 3k at the very best?

Where do "most of us" suggest that Gaz??

I certainly don't and Mr. Keen seems to be in the absolute minority.

The better proposal seems to be one Calder club in Superleague.

Having said that not necessarily Wakefield at all.

As you say your club are in the mix.

Edited by The Parksider, 23 April 2013 - 01:28 PM.


#240 keighley

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:47 PM

Where do "most of us" suggest that Gaz??

I certainly don't and Mr. K seems to be in the absolute minority.

The better proposal seems to be one Calder club in Superleague.

Having said that not necessarily Wakefield at all.

As you say your club are in the mix.

 

Winston Churchill was warning of the dangers of the new germany in the 1920 s and 30 s. he was a lone voice crying in th wilderness. he was laughed and for his views.

 

In hindsight, was he wrong.? we all know the answer to that.

 

The fact that most people have been sucked into the view that one club for the wakefield area is the way to go sggests a culture of jumping on the bandwaggon and siding with the power structure of the game. it's always the easier route to follow.

 

It does not make it right or correct. At one time everyione sided with the one universal church's view that the earth was flat.

 

Following the prevailing wisdom is not always proven to be the correct course.

 

I don't think it is the correct one here.

 

I think Wakfield could well achieve a 10,000 average. I think Castleford, given financing and a suitable resolution to their ground problems could get to the 8,000 level and Fev could reach 5,000 and maybe better.

 

Why would these clubs be destroyed to put a team in SL which would struggle to get more than 10,000. Let the scenario play out and see what happens.

 

This rush to regression with a view to some Super Super Super league of 10 teams being the saviour of the whole game of RL is a fantasy.






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