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Calder, it is time?


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#241 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:01 PM

I think Wakfield could well achieve a 10,000 average. I think Castleford, given financing and a suitable resolution to their ground problems could get to the 8,000 level and Fev could reach 5,000 and maybe better.
 
Why would these clubs be destroyed to put a team in SL which would struggle to get more than 10,000. Let the scenario play out and see what happens.
 
This rush to regression with a view to some Super Super Super league of 10 teams being the saviour of the whole game of RL is a fantasy.

Can we leave Churchill, Germany and Flat Earth out of the debate.

A reduction in Superleague cannot be claimed to be a "fantasy" if club chairmen,CEO's and top players are talking about it, and the usually careful RL press are reporting a likely drop in Superleague numbers. On Monday League weekly spoke of "Superleague mooted for a reduction in clubs 2015".

I can accept 10 clubs may VERY well not be the "saviour" but as the 14 club league sees chairmen withdraw support at castleford and HKR and possibly Widnes, and Hughes is also heavily tipped to pack it in then we are already seeing clubs "destroyed" as superleague clubs. 14 clubs isn't the saviour in the here and now.

The scenario will play out as you say, but I at least reserve the right to talk about the situation as it stands rather than what you suggest which is say nothing because Castleford may get "funding" and a "resolution to their ground problem".

"Ssssshhhhhh a rich man may just appear", approach to debate isn't for me.

Edited by The Parksider, 23 April 2013 - 01:07 PM.


#242 Larry the Leit

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.

 

I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.

 

During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.

 

Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas. 

 

Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging. 

 

I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance.  If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?

 

Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.

 

Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup.  Why would we want to take away any of these clubs?  What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed?  I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents.  Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.

 

The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?

 

I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”.  I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.


Edited by Larry the Leit, 23 April 2013 - 01:43 PM.


#243 keighley

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:42 PM

 

Can we leave Churchill, Germany and Flat Earth out of the debate.

A reduction in Superleague cannot be claimed to be a "fantasy" if club chairmen,CEO's and top players are talking about it, and the usually careful RL press are reporting a likely drop in Superleague numbers. On Monday League weekly spoke of "Superleague mooted for a reduction in clubs 2015".

I can accept 10 clubs may VERY well not be the "saviour" but as the 14 club league sees chairmen withdraw support at castleford and HKR and possibly Widnes, and Hughes is also heavily tipped to pack it in then we are already seeing clubs "destroyed" as superleague clubs. 14 clubs isn't the saviour in the here and now.

The scenario will play out as you say, but I at least reserve the right to talk about the situation as it stands rather than what you suggest which is say nothing because Castleford may get "funding" and a "resolution to their ground problem".

"Ssssshhhhhh a rich man may just appear", approach to debate isn't for me.

 

For examples of this please see Salford, Bradford, Featherstone, Wakefield, Widnes, Warrington, Wigan, Hull, Hull KR, and London. Other than those examples, rich investors coming forward are just fantasies.

#244 keighley

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:47 PM


 

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.
 
I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.
 
During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.
 
Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas. 
 
Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging. 
 
I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance.  If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?
 
Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.
 
Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup.  Why would we want to take away any of these clubs?  What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed?  I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents.  Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.
 
The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?
 
I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”.  I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.

 

Great post. You have summed up what i have been trying to say but in a much more concise and better fashion. great post.

#245 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:24 PM

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.
 
I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.
 
During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.
 
Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas. 
 
Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging. 
 
I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance.  If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?
 
Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.
 
Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup.  Why would we want to take away any of these clubs?  What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed?  I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents.  Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.
 
The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?
 
I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”.  I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.

Great post Larry, a very well thought out and informed post
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#246 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:49 PM

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.

I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.

During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.

Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas.

Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging.

I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance. If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?

Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.

Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup. Why would we want to take away any of these clubs? What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed? I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents. Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.

The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?

I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”. I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.

Wonderful mi owd mucker, whoever you are. My grandson's four and all he talks about is Fev and there are lots, lots more just like him down Post Office Road way. Good to hear from you again btw.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 23 April 2013 - 02:51 PM.

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#247 jackknife

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:11 PM

if the merge happened I certainly wouldnt support the new team im a cas fan btw n yes im just 1 fan I know but surely there will be a lot more cas, wakey n fev fans that feel the same so id be suprised if the new team managed 12-15k supporters.

Dint hull merge with gateshead but yet gateshead stil exist right at bottom of pile and dint huddersfield merge with shefield but shefield stil have a team so how many of gateshead n shefields fans follow the merged team?

If cas wakey n fev merged to make calder would those teams stil have a team in the lower leagues if so most if not all would stil follow there original teams.
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#248 jackknife

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:13 PM

Iv always called it xscape castleford
COME ON THE CORN
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#249 jackknife

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 04:22 PM

Infact xscapes address is;

Colorado way
castleford
wf10 4ta
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CLASSY CAS 4EVA
Go Go Go York City Knights!

#250 JohnM

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:04 PM

I think when John said "Ok, so the clubs won't merge of their own volition. But in the end, one will become dominant, the 'better dead than red ' brigade will be extinct and there will be just one SL club in the area. And that club could be a really competitive one, a winner, something the fans have deserved for a long long time" it was very well pu

But (and I seek clarity Mr. M.) I took that as suggesting one existing club eventually dominating would be the key and not a three way merger?

Perhaps we now agree??


It does not seem to me to be likely that under current conditions any of the three would initiate a merger, especially as Fev have SL ambitions. I can actually imagine them getting one, too. However, I cannot see them being sustainably successful enough to stay there for long. But during that there years, they could well damage Cas and Wakey as they attract those Fev fans who like SL.

I can also see a situation where say Cas became the dominant team...or Wakey.

All this competition may be good for diehard fans, but it is 'internal' and won't help any of the three compete with Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Wire, Bradford etc. Thus in my view the current situation is not in the best long-term interests of those clubs or the game.

If they we're to grasp the metal now, there is hope...after the turf wars. Don't think that will happen, so yes, I think I agree...after a huge waste of fans and directors money, some years down the line, Wakey will come out on top.

#251 Ponterover

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:13 PM

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.
 
I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.
 
During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.
 
Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas. 
 
Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging. 
 
I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance.  If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?
 
Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.
 
Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup.  Why would we want to take away any of these clubs?  What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed?  I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents.  Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.
 
The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?
 
I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”.  I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.

Well said

#252 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:48 PM

Good afternoon all. I thought I'd wade in to this one.
 
I don't live in Wakefield, Featherstone or Castleford. I live in the Midlands and have done for a number of years. I lived in Wakefield for the first 25 years of my life, and I am a Wakefield Trinity supporter.
 
During that time I had no reason to visit either Castleford or Featherstone, unless it was to watch or play Rugby League. I'll centre my point on Castleford more than Featherstone from herein, I doubt very much whether anyone from Castleford visits Wakefield too often unless it's for administrative reasons, maybe attend Wakefield College for a couple of years or very occasionally to go to the shops (unless their work takes them there of course). People from Castleford will surely be far more likely to go in to Leeds, it's bigger and probably more convenient for them to do so. If Cas are to merge, why would it not be with Leeds? Clearly that's silly, but there's more of a link there than there is between Cas and Wakefield. Please note that the Ski-slope at Castleford is called Xscape Leeds, not Xscape Castleford, or Xscape Wakefield MDC.
 
Castleford is part of Wakefield MDC, but I think that this is only since a bizarre boundary change decision in the 1970s. There is not only a significant distance and wide open green spaces between the two places, but culturally they are miles apart. There is little or no interaction between the places, Cas has enough infrastructure for people to do the family shop, get their entertainment etc to stand alone – not from Wakefield but as a stand alone town it it's own right. It has little to attract others to the town from Wakefield, and that is said with no disrespect at all, but Wakefield is a bigger place with it's own amenities in easier reach of other centres of population that the stop/start A-Road to Cas. 
 
Featherstone Rovers are fiercely independent. They are in a way a model to follow, their sons and daughters move away and still flock home and are still Featherstone people when it comes to Rugby League. Other clubs need to tap into this, and discover what breeds the loyalty. Featherstone is a bit of an enigma, it's a very small bordered on the historic but ultimately small town of Pontefract but yet it still supports a professional side - one that is growing in what are tough times. I would think that people from Featherstone have more reason to visit Wakefield, or indeed Castleford as part of their weekly lives, but to suggest that they should be swallowed up by a Calder team is daft as any link to those centres of population is I suspect functional rather than through any cultural sense of belonging. 
 
I wouldn't dream of commenting that St Helens, Wigan, Leigh should form one team as I have no concept of the culture and links between the places, the same applies for Oldham, Rochdale, Swinton and Salford. I also have no view on what the land between the sites is like, and it's suitability to be the home of a new stadium, but I see that isn't a barrier for people from outside of Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford to write some wasted words based on ignorance.  If it's good enough for Barrie Mac on Sky then why not for posters on here?
 
Long live Wakefield Trinity, Featherstone Rovers and Castleford. I can think of no circumstances where a merged entity could garner support and be a success. However it's worth noting that in Wakefield's darkest hour shareholders did vote to consider a merger, a point somehow missed in all these pages of nonsense.
 
Finally to address the point that the “entrenched views” that are held by people supporting the three existing clubs are not the future support of the game, then think on. My son loves Wakefield Trinity, I took him to one game and he's talked about nothing else since. I purposely didn't buy him a kit at first to brand him a supporter, but he loved the singing, the noise and the action. Much to my disappointment he loved Daddy Cool the Wakefield mascot. He was made very welcome at the club, as he always is at Coventry Bears, Leicester Storm, and most recently at NEW Ravens when I took him to see the World Cup.  Why would we want to take away any of these clubs?  What happens if Coventry and Leicester get quite big - will we see a call for Hinckley to be formed?  I'm pretty sure that at four years old he's already hooked. He likes going with me, he likes going with his grandparents.  Added to this I reckon I've got about 40-50 years on this earth, so to say I'm not the future support of my club is taking a VERY long term view.
 
The argument is as tired as any I have read on here. Please stop it folks, and instead of trying to stamp the game in to the dirt, lets try and make a success of what we have and get back talking about the game itself. What's wrong with enjoying a bit of Rugby League instead of having a good old moan?
 
I'm quite pleased that I managed to write all that without mentioning carpet-bombing, asking Frank about his obsession with the bogs at Rugby League grounds, calling anyone a plank, or referring to Terry M as “mi old mate”.  I hope you're all well. Sorry for the ramble, it's been quite a while.

So what have we learned?

(1) Places near to each other are not always that similar and the people don't always get on that well. Thanks for that startling revelation.

(2) Historic teams and fan allegiances are difficult to shift. Again, I think we already knew this.

(3) Featherstone are a great example of a small community side who have done very good things in a different era and continue to do reasonably (but no more) in a newer, tougher one. I think we can all agree on this.

(4) A tiny child enjoyed a game of rugby league at one of said historic teams. Of course he did! He's a tiny child! He's utterly immune to the commercial aspects of professional sport and of course should be. But when he's old enough to go to games and down the pub with his mates he'll want to support a contender. If they existed, this could be a merged Calder side, however he will now likely take Leeds, Wigan or Saints (if he indeed stays with rugby league at all).

You write well and with good local knowledge but none of this disguises the fundamental truth - the Calder region cannot and never will be able to support more than 1 successful Super League side and the fairest and most sensible solution - as has been seen with Wests Tigers and St George-Illawarra Dragons - is to merge the existing historic sides towards greater ends for all concerned, not least the wider game.

#253 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:55 PM

Wakefield have just come out of financial collapse this last year or so.

So have Bradford, and from a much more recent collapse to boot, yet their fans are not paying extra hard-earned cash to pay their young players, a laughable concept that should produce red faces at the RFL.

Any idea why this is? Oh let me see - there are loads more of them?

You are utterly inconsistent on this issue Parky and just pick and choose the facts to suit your strange crusade for the preservation of Wakefield Trinity. I think we all like This Sporting Life and don't like to see history rewritten or admit that our favourite sport dealt us some bum hands geographically but sometimes you have to face facts and make tough decisions to move forward.

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 23 April 2013 - 06:56 PM.


#254 WakefieldCityLoyal

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:19 PM

Why is wakefields club 1873 scheme laughable and embarrassing. It's a club lottery scheme that replaced squadbuilder about 2 years ago and now has thousands of members which in turn helps finance the clubs youth structure. Most clubs have this kind of lottery, just one example is Warringtons squadbuilder. Only thing laughable on this thread are people who don't know the area and don't know what they are on about.

#255 Trojan

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:37 PM

If Asda merged with Morrisons then I'd shop at Asda.  After all we have to eat.  But the same doesn't apply to leisure activities - you don't have to go.  That's what all the pro merger people don't seem to get.

BTW great article in LE this week about P&R!


"Your a one trick pony Trojan" - Parksider 10th March 2013

#256 JohnM

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

When Morrison's took over Safeway, some Safeway staff did their best to make integration difficult and in the south, Safeway customers refused to shop at Morrisons. Although this merger/takeover dragged Morrisons down for longer than expected, it's over now and no one remembers Safeway.

#257 JohnM

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

When Morrison's took over Safeway, some Safeway staff did their best to make integration difficult and in the south, Safeway customers refused to shop at Morrisons. Although this merger/takeover dragged Morrisons down for longer than expected, it's over now and no one remembers Safeway.

#258 Larry the Leit

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:36 PM

So what have we learned?

(1) Places near to each other are not always that similar and the people don't always get on that well. Thanks for that startling revelation.

(2) Historic teams and fan allegiances are difficult to shift. Again, I think we already knew this.

(3) Featherstone are a great example of a small community side who have done very good things in a different era and continue to do reasonably (but no more) in a newer, tougher one. I think we can all agree on this.

(4) A tiny child enjoyed a game of rugby league at one of said historic teams. Of course he did! He's a tiny child! He's utterly immune to the commercial aspects of professional sport and of course should be. But when he's old enough to go to games and down the pub with his mates he'll want to support a contender. If they existed, this could be a merged Calder side, however he will now likely take Leeds, Wigan or Saints (if he indeed stays with rugby league at all).

You write well and with good local knowledge but none of this disguises the fundamental truth - the Calder region cannot and never will be able to support more than 1 successful Super League side and the fairest and most sensible solution - as has been seen with Wests Tigers and St George-Illawarra Dragons - is to merge the existing historic sides towards greater ends for all concerned, not least the wider game.

 

I don't think any of us can really learn anything without first opening our minds to new information and points of view. I've read this thread and I've seen people advocate the merger of three clubs and witnessed them rebuff without reasoning any counter argument. I think the point that I was trying to get across in my earlier post is that this is not one common market of fans that the clubs are fighting over. There are of course small pockets where I suppose in the Normanton/Altofts area a case could be made for this being the case on a three way split, but that is only one part of Wakefield MDC, and as I have stated previously Wakefield MDC doesn't have a shared identity whatsoever. Perhaps there should be a new club in Normanton. It's bigger than Featherstone and smaller than Castleford if you're wondering, sounds like a winner?

 

People from Cas are more likely to identify with Leeds than Wakefield, as are people from Wakefield in preference to Castleford. The Calder region simply doesn't exist, other than in the minds of those that promised untold riches at the advent of Superleague. Those using the region as the basis for their arguments are seriously undermined by the physical and cultural geography of Wakefield, Castleford, Featherstone and the surrounding towns and cities. Transport links between the three conurbations where the clubs are not great, and as stated before so any joint venture would have to overcome this. Belle Vue sits on the very east of Wakefield, the side where both Cas and Featherstone are, and yet draws no support from Featherstone or Castleford, although it does draw healthy support from Crofton/Hemsworth and Normanton.

 

Wakefield are now approaching crowds of 8000 on a regular basis for the first time in my lifetime, and with tangible progress being made towards a new stadium it's conceivable that they could emulate the success we have all enjoyed seeing Warrington achieve. Wakefield is out gunning neighbour Huddersfield crowd wise who have had years of significant investment from Ken Davey, sit in a big modern stadium and have reached two challenge cup finals in recent years. 

 

Whether your imagined district could support more than one superleague is one for debate, but I'd fancy that Wakefield alone is big enough to do so alone. I can't speak for Castleford or Featherstone with any certainty, but if Wakefield could get the same proportion of locals attending games as Castleford and Featherstone do they will be a very well supported club indeed. I think your quesiton needs to be rephrased though. Can each team (regardless of where they are, Wakefield, Wakefield MDC, West Yorkshire, London, Greater Manchester, Cumbria) support a superleague side? To pick out the three in the imagined Calder region is lazy, tiresome and unsporting.

 

I've always wanted to support a contender, just so long as that contender was my team, and it's never stopped me supporting my side regardless of their standing. If we all supported Wigan because of their dominance in the 80s and 90s where would that leave us? Only one team can win the league each year, so all the others have failed. That's a tough pill to swallow, somebody always comes last, even if you reduce the league, there will always be a winner, and many many more losers. If you haven't done so already, I suggest you visit Belle Vue for a big game and sample the atmosphere now that the ground improvements have been made, and then tell the world that Wakefield haven't got a chance.

 

Sport is broadly cyclical, Trinity seem to be on the way up, Castleford look to be struggling at the moment, and people in Featherstone seem very happy with their progress. One thing is for certain, things don't remain constant in sport and Castleford may well have their day again soon. Perhaps it'd be more convenient to the argument that you and others keep making if Trinity fans were to stick the boot in to Castleford. There's no need to do that, it's a tough sport, and it's a sport I love. Less is not more.

 

So in summary, I think the barriers to creating a regional team for a wholly fictitious region cannot be overcome, however I respect your right to different opinion. I do however get frustrated at the constant drum beating that the three clubs should merge, from people who should know better, but haven't taken the time to find out either about the geography of the different areas involved or the identity of communities therein.

 

*Correction to earlier post. Xscape is being marketed as “Xscape Yorkshire” these days, but it was “Xscape Leeds” on their website the last time I looked before this evening.


Edited by Larry the Leit, 23 April 2013 - 08:41 PM.


#259 Larry the Leit

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:37 PM

Double post.


Edited by Larry the Leit, 23 April 2013 - 08:38 PM.


#260 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:56 PM

You are utterly inconsistent on this issue Parky and just pick and choose the facts to suit your strange crusade for the preservation of Wakefield Trinity. I think we all like This Sporting Life and don't like to see history rewritten or admit that our favourite sport dealt us some bum hands geographically but sometimes you have to face facts and make tough decisions to move forward.

I think you have very little support for YOUR merger idea and it's too much of a risk. Allowing one club to dominate (and you have conveniently forgotten I suggested featherstone could be that club) is the better business bet and I note that you are starting to talk this way - enough resources for only one club.

The facts are there's plenty for one club to be successful

It needs the tough decision of only one Calder club in in 2015

Moving forward isn't by merger though and I'm sad you have failed to accept the good demographic and business reasons from many on here why it's not the way forward.




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