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Calder, it is time?


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#21 The Parksider

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:14 AM

1. Without wanting to start an argument.

2. From what I can gather, the cas stadium has gone, Wakefield seem to be the most vibrant f the clubs at the minute, it looks likely their stadium will go ahead.

3. I was posing the question of the most positive outcome for the game, but much of the feedback seems to indicate it's not wanted. I can't see another way for the game to prosper at the top level in the area. So, at best it seems many of the posters here are content to merely survive.

4. Does this open up the further question if whether some big decisions need to be made at the next round of licensing?

1. It's not an argument it's a debate and that's what the site is for so start one! Don't be put off by anyone your free to post away.

2. Cas stadium money problems, Wakey stadium not a sod turned. We work on the we believe it when we see it principle here, but it's a decent bet.

3. Not a matter of "not wanted". There were three clubs in Leeds playing semi pro independently, now there's only one highly successful independent club, the other is the "A" team and the third gone. There are models like this that work. This could happen in places like Calder and Hull. I guess that's what could happen.

4. Moving to a ten club SL that could be without P & R is a big decision being mooted at this very point in time. This is a massive massive decision, the biggest since SL started.

It could give those chosen just the boost they need to kick on.

It could give those not chosen an almost certain decline into being "junior" semi pro clubs.

IMHO of course!!!

Edited by The Parksider, 18 April 2013 - 08:16 AM.


#22 EastLondonMike

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:20 AM

in principle the 'M' word makes sense (to me anyway), but i have doubts as to whether a new combined club, with the existing clubs feeding it, would generate anything other than a few thousand fans, if that. you'd still get the hardcore fans of each club going to see they're own team play in the lower leagues.

 

The only way to get anything close to the figures of 15,000 that are being thrown around is for all three clubs to cease to be, form one club, and work they're nads off to engage with fans of all three clubs in the hope they buy into any new club. Which is obviously extremely risky, and would take 10 years or so of perseverance. And as a RL fan i would hate to see three clubs with such fantastic history and tradition in the game cease to be.


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#23 The Parksider

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 08:40 AM

The only way to get anything close to the figures of 15,000 that are being thrown around is for all three clubs to cease to be, form one club, and work they're nads off to engage with fans of all three clubs in the hope they buy into any new club. Which is obviously extremely risky, and would take 10 years or so of perseverance. And as a RL fan i would hate to see three clubs with such fantastic history and tradition in the game cease to be.

I don't agree here.

You indicate that a Calder club could be formed lets say at Newmarket Lane.

Then you take a big "risk" with "hope" (your words)and ask died in the wool Cas fans and died in the wool Fev fans to go support it.

You also take away a Wakefield Trinity that has been "on the up" since Glover took over and who on Sunday had an 8,000 crowd for a competitive clash with Warrington one of our biggest clubs.

You then ask those Wakefield fans to support "Calder". I think I know what their attitude would be when they are all getting behind the club because they rightly think it can go places, and you snatch it away.

The best model IMHO and i bet this is what's in Glovers head and will IMHO be in Wood and hetheringtons heads is Cas and Fev leave SL so Wakefield are the only SL gig in the area, Wakefield then get in Newmarket which boosts crowds further, and slowly over 10 years local junior players decide to sign on at Wakefield rather than Leeds, Saints or Hull etc.

Then every year Wakey park their season ticket bus in Cas, Normanton, Ponte, Fev etc etc and look to slowly build on new generations of fans without the old tribal animosities, maybe picking up a few hundred a year if they compete on the field.

Wether they will end up with 11K crowds like Wire or 15K crowds like Wigan who knows, but as long as they end up another big club the game will be all the better for it and this model is not based on either risk or hope.

Edited by The Parksider, 18 April 2013 - 08:42 AM.


#24 jpmc

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

No area's or clubs could argue against mergers if only leeds & bradford would lead the way and merge.
We could then start to talk about potential 20k+ gates instead of scratching around hoping for 10k gates

#25 ehbandit

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:15 AM

I think all Yorkshire teams should merge and all NW teams should merge. we can then have 2super teams which may attract crowds of 100,000 each week. these teams could play 24 games a year.

#26 zorquif

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:20 AM

Too parochial ehbandit. We need to merge all northern teams into one north team, and then fill up the other 9 spots in the SL with teams from France, Wales and London.



#27 Kenilworth Tiger

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:21 AM

Especially if Cas nick our coach and the bitterness is renewed . Cas would have to get rid of Chase too!

Who says RL fans are blinkered eh??
Now then, it's a race between Sandie....and Fairburn....and the little man is in........yeees he's in.

I, just like those Castleford supporters felt that the ball should have gone to David Plange but he put the bit betwen his teeth...and it was a try

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#28 ehbandit

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 09:23 AM

Too parochial ehbandit. We need to merge all northern teams into one north team, and then fill up the other 9 spots in the SL with teams from France, Wales and London.


good idea! that team has the potential to get a good crowd of 10,000! haha

#29 PREPOSTEROUS

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 10:12 AM


Too parochial ehbandit. We need to merge all northern teams into one north team, and then fill up the other 9 spots in the SL with teams from France, Wales and London.

What not just merge all clubs and play under the banner of England/Britain. Then they could play teams around the world. Its a sure fire way to attract massive crowds and prestigious sponsors to the game. We could even invite other teams to come over and play in a knockout competition. With the potential of 60m supporters we'd have no trouble selling such a tournament out.

Edited by PREPOSTEROUS, 18 April 2013 - 10:23 AM.


#30 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:02 AM

There's only one of the three clubs that is certain to have a SL ground and that's Fev. Not wishful thinking, It's happening right now.
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#31 OMEGA

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 11:43 AM

As you said, Wakefield may rise to dominance, but how big a club can they be?
 

Massive!

 

If Wakefield get it right they can rival any club in the game as they did in the 50s & especially the 60s when they were the number 1 club in the world.



#32 Wolford6

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

Population of Leeds ~750,000

Population of Bradford ~ 530,000

Population of Kirklees ~ 420,000

Population of Calderdale ~ 200,000

Population of Wakefield ~ 320,00

 

Wakefield has no chance os supporting three Superleague clubs. It will, in the long term, struggle to support one.


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#33 The Parksider

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

Population of Leeds ~750,000
Population of Bradford ~ 530,000
Population of Kirklees ~ 420,000
Population of Calderdale ~ 200,000
Population of Wakefield ~ 320,00
 
Wakefield has no chance os supporting three Superleague clubs. It will, in the long term, struggle to support one.

RL is strong in the region and there's no direct soccer competition, so I'm sure you appreciate it's not just about populations. Wakefield crowds are approaching 10,000 and both Hull and wire got big boosts with new stadiums so I'm not sure there's any evidence they would struggle to support one club?

#34 OMEGA

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:17 PM

Population of Wigan = 81,203

Population of Wigan Borough 318,100

 

In time Wigan will struggle to support a SL team

<_<



#35 keighley

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:54 PM

&nbsp;

Population of Leeds ~750,000
Population of Bradford ~ 530,000
Population of Kirklees ~ 420,000
Population of Calderdale ~ 200,000
Population of Wakefield ~ 320,00
&nbsp;
Wakefield has no chance os supporting three Superleague clubs. It will, in the long term, struggle to support one.

&nbsp;

Leeds- big soccer club

Bradford- soccer club bigger tha the Bulls.

Kirkless- soccer club bigger than the Giants

Calderdale- no soccer club.

Many more fans available to the Calderdale clubs than in those aea with soccer competition. So if 530,000 fans in Bradford can support the Bulls and City, then a combined 520,000 fans in Calderdale/Wakefield combined should, at the very least be able to support two SL clubs and the catchment area for both Cas and Fev extends beyond the Calderdale boundary, so all three might be possible.

At the outset of SL, Wakefield were in Div 2 on crowds of 1,500, Fev got dumped from the top tier and Cas were on around 5,000 at a guess.

Who would have then predicted that today, Wakefield are on 7 to 8 thousand, Cas, even in this bad period, are on 5 to 7,000 and Fev are on 2,000 plus.

Even by my, admittedly rough guess figures, the support for RL in Calderdale has doubled since the start of SL.

I don't see why, especially with new stadia at Fev and Wakefield, this upsurge of support for RL in Calder cannot continue and that two or even three SL teams cannot emerge in the area. Sometimes the phrase " throwing the baby out with the bathwater" seems to be a perfect fit foe these self centred, internecine merger fantasies.

#36 RSN

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 02:57 PM

If Wakefield get the new ground IMO this will see them rise to be the biggest club in the area. It'll make them so much more attractive than the clubs around them. A club with increasing crowds in a brand new stadium will mean that between themselves, Cas and Fev that they'll likely be the first choice for fans, sponsors and young players, hence they'll rise as a club and begin dominating Cas and Fev like Leeds did to Hunslet ect.

 

Fair enough Leeds have over twice the population as the Calder area but they've got to compete with other sports teams. What do Wakefield have to compete with currently apart from Cas and Fev.

 

A club on the up, a new stadium, a decent size catchment area, an area which produces a hell of a lot of RL talent and is the most popular sport in the stadium and already getting 8 - 9k fans a season. How isn't that a recipe for success?

 

Most important word of my post though is the first one though.



#37 a.n Other

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:00 PM

&nbsp;&nbsp;

Leeds- big soccer club

Bradford- soccer club bigger tha the Bulls.

Kirkless- soccer club bigger than the Giants

Calderdale- no soccer club.

Many more fans available to the Calderdale clubs than in those aea with soccer competition. So if 530,000 fans in Bradford can support the Bulls and City, then a combined 520,000 fans in Calderdale/Wakefield combined should, at the very least be able to support two SL clubs and the catchment area for both Cas and Fev extends beyond the Calderdale boundary, so all three might be possible.

At the outset of SL, Wakefield were in Div 2 on crowds of 1,500, Fev got dumped from the top tier and Cas were on around 5,000 at a guess.

Who would have then predicted that today, Wakefield are on 7 to 8 thousand, Cas, even in this bad period, are on 5 to 7,000 and Fev are on 2,000 plus.

Even by my, admittedly rough guess figures, the support for RL in Calderdale has doubled since the start of SL.

I don't see why, especially with new stadia at Fev and Wakefield, this upsurge of support for RL in Calder cannot continue and that two or even three SL teams cannot emerge in the area. Sometimes the phrase " throwing the baby out with the bathwater" seems to be a perfect fit foe these self centred, internecine merger fantasies.

I think the poster was referring to the population of Calderdale (Halifax, Elland, Brighouse, Sowerby Bridge, Todmorden, Hebden Bridge etc)

#38 Wolford6

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:03 PM

Yes, the populations are of the metropolitan districts.


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#39 Wolford6

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

Population of Wigan = 81,203

Population of Wigan Borough 318,100

 

In time Wigan will struggle to support a SL team

<_<

 

 

Preston, Blackburn, Bolton and Chorley are big nearby towns without a pro RL team.

 

Wigan is also in Greater Manchester.

 

I would guess that the club has a potential spectator footprint, in total, of well over 1 million people.


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#40 OMEGA

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

Preston, Blackburn, Bolton and Chorley are big nearby towns without a pro RL team.

 

Wigan is also in Greater Manchester.

 

I would guess that the club has a potential spectator footprint, in total, of well over 1 million people.

 

 

Preston, Blackburn, Bolton  Manchester have some of the UKs and indeed the Worlds largest football teams as well.

 

If we're talking surrounding areas then Wakefield could conceivably move into Barnslay with a further population of 80,000.

 

Hell if we're speculating Wakefield could move into Dewsbury, Leeds, Pontefract or anywhere but I'm being unrealistic now!


Edited by OMEGA, 18 April 2013 - 03:22 PM.





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