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Calder, it is time?


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#121 Ponterover

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:09 AM

Good luck finding those "future consumers" - what a horrible phrase borne out of the modern trend of reducing everything to number crunching, targets and management babble.

You will not find enough of these "new RL supporters" to support a brand new SL team. The same will happen if you place an artificially created team in any area where RL is already established - people have their teams, they support them. They are not interested in new teams and will not instantly switch to support a new team in the numbers needed to survive in the top flight. For some reason, it is always the Wakefield/Castleford/Featherstone area that is the subject of these nonsense merger club suggestions. They would be equally likely to fail if suggested in Hull, Halifax/Huddersfield, Widnes/St Helens - the people who live in these areas don't want them and that is why they would fail. How many more times will people keep proposing mergers before they realise this?

Nailed

#122 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 07:45 AM

..and that's good to hear. The discussion though is not really about Wakefordstone. It's must that the situation covers a number of current issues in the game.
Clearly the clubs will not merge voluntarily for all the reasons posted on here.However, in order for a club to thrive and survive in the 21St century game, you need money, players, spectators and in the area under discussion it is my view that these do not exist in enough volume to support all three teams in SL in the area. The current battle involving WAkefield, Cas, Fev is good for local fans and well done to fev for what they are doing, but none of it will change the fundamental truth.

So what do you propose doing with Huddersfield then John? Are they worthy of standalone SL existence on the gates they're getting? They, along with Bradford and Fax seem to be attracting a similar sized combined audience to Fev, Cas and Wakey.

Oh and who's going to pay the wages by the way during this long term interim period while a sufficient number of new fans are attracted to the merged club. Will Ken Davy, Andrew Glover and Feisal Nahaboo be prepared to plough their dosh into these new entities? I don't believe what I'm reading on here sometimes.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 21 April 2013 - 08:06 AM.

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#123 jackknife

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

I dont think anyone involved with either team would follow a merged team but if they simply share a shiny new ground then surely they share the costs but stil receive full profits from there own home games so this would make financial sense for everyone involved. Id say a 3way share would be to hard to keep the pitch decent as there would be 2games a week at least so id suggest wakey n cas build a ground n share it as both teams are already in SL
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#124 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:10 AM


I dont think anyone involved with either team would follow a merged team but if they simply share a shiny new ground then surely they share the costs but stil receive full profits from there own home games so this would make financial sense for everyone involved. Id say a 3way share would be to hard to keep the pitch decent as there would be 2games a week at least so id suggest wakey n cas build a ground n share it as both teams are already in SL


Take Cas out of Cas jackknife and you'll end up like Swinton and Oldham. Be careful what you wish for. Concentrate on developing Wheldon Rd and stay put.

Edited by Terry Mullaney, 21 April 2013 - 08:41 AM.

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#125 JohnM

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:30 AM

So what do you propose doing with Huddersfield then John? Are they worthy of standalone SL existence on the gates they're getting? They, along with Bradford and Fax seem to be attracting a similar sized combined audience to Fev, Cas and Wakey.

Oh and who's going to pay the wages by the way during this long term interim period while a sufficient number of new fans are attracted to the merged club. Will Ken Davy, Andrew Glover and Feisal Nahaboo be prepared to plough their dosh into these new entities? I don't believe what I'm reading on here sometimes.


No need to propose anything for Hudds. The spirited response from Fev, cas and Wakey fans on here covers the main issues. Also it's not about "Calder" per se. ..it's merely a good example. In the end, though, the outcome will be decided by the realities of life in the 21St century.

#126 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 08:36 AM

No need to propose anything for Hudds. The spirited response from Fev, cas and Wakey fans on here covers the main issues. Also it's not about "Calder" per se. ..it's merely a good example. In the end, though, the outcome will be decided by the realities of life in the 21St century.


But that doesn't answer the question I pose regarding the feasibility of financing of such ventures. I'd like to hear how the pro merger people on here would address that.
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#127 Robin Evans

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:00 AM


Nailed


Seconded!
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#128 The Parksider

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:08 AM

With respect, you and Forever Trinity are not the future consumers of rugby league. Nor am I and nor are the vast majority of those of us on this forum. The future consumers are younger, more media savvy and do not share the same affiliations, nor (in many cases) the blinkered and often antagonistic views of where the game should go next (based, usually, on nothing more than where it has been).

Whether you like it or not, rugby league owes you no favours and will continue without you. I'm sure it would like you on board but (and this is just my opinion) it should pay little mind to what you say as you are living in the past and will unwittingly destroy the game if paid more than a cursory heed.

Well said Keeny.

#129 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:09 AM

No victimhood, and I have no problem with opposing views (if I didnt talk to somebody I had a disagreement with id never speak to anyone)

This is about being told I am the sort of person whos holding the game back because of how I believe the game should be going.

Ive seen people banned for very little reason and id much rather be on the terraces watching the game than talking to the cretins that inhabit the forums.

I don't think anyone on here is a cretin event he ones who's views I don't share

I think that if you hold a view any view that you believe is progressive and the way forward then views that oppose that have a good chance of being seen as regressive
Especially if those views favour a return to a discredited way of doing things

I don't know whether mergers are a good idea or not, although if it wasn't for a merger there would quite possibly be no featherstone rovers as we know them

But I'd be up for giving it a go if I felt it took rugby league forward sometimes a leap of faith can be invigorating. I also find 'entrenched' ideas and opinions reactionary and unproductive as well as dreary

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso, 21 April 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#130 The Parksider

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:15 AM

Your opinion I neither care about or share. But as long as fev exist as an independent club I will follow them. To say people like me aren't the future or rl ignores the fact that I sincerely hope to be a purchaser of the product for at least another 20+years!And you know the attitudes of all the youth, young adults and juniors who follow wakey/fev? Where is the link to that study?

I will be a purchaser for the next 20 years too if fate allows.

I'll probably spend it all on Superleague games, cup finals and Internationals, but take in a few Hunslet games for old time's sake.

The latter income will help keep Hunslet alive.

The former income will help the game of Rugby League thrive.

Not enough fans watch clubs like HKR and Cas and so these clubs make losses, so you cannot assume that your £10 is as important as another fans £10.

Some of us are spending to keep dead businesses going, some of us are contributing to the profitability of the game.

NOT HAVING A GO good sir, it's just how this business is.

As to how kids react, going round Leeds the dads and grandads haven't influenced kids into watching Hunslet and Bramley. They all want Superleague.

Meetings to keep Hunslet and Leigh alive were mainly attended by old men.

That's the best study I can manage.

Edited by The Parksider, 21 April 2013 - 09:18 AM.


#131 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

And financial Darwinism will produce a winner. What you want is for is for God in the shape of the RFL or SL, to intervene and kill or order hari kari on teams to ensure that whomsoever is deemed to be the fittest shall survive.

That's not natural sporting evolution, it's unfair market manipulation.


Rugby league doesn't exist in a financial Galapagos archipelago though
The real Darwinism is going on in the outside world that it is part of. History and attitudes within the sport have dealt it a very weak hand
That's one of the reasons why being bold rather than conservative have been its saviour
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#132 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:16 AM

I was involved with the original protests against the mergers back in 1995 and even 18 years without top flight rugby for my club, I would not change a thing. Fev, Cas and Wakey are all good clubs by there own right and there is clearly major issues in the game that needs to be addressed and not this.

The way some people post on here you would think that we are blessed with all SL clubs having a 20k attendances. Merger would be the end of the game for me but I suppose there would be thousands of new fans lined up to take my place if it happened? Meanwhile back in the real world
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#133 Robin Evans

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:55 AM


NOT HAVING A GO good sir, .
.

I know you're not. It ok to disagree. I fundamentally disagree with most of your stance on the direction rugby league is going. Wouldn't stop me buyin thi a pint and have you listen to even more of my dreary sheeeeiiiiite! :lol:
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#134 Robin Evans

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 09:57 AM

I was involved with the original protests against the mergers back in 1995 and even 18 years without top flight rugby for my club, I would not change a thing. Fev, Cas and Wakey are all good clubs by there own right and there is clearly major issues in the game that needs to be addressed and not this.

The way some people post on here you would think that we are blessed with all SL clubs having a 20k attendances. Merger would be the end of the game for me but I suppose there would be thousands of new fans lined up to take my place if it happened? Meanwhile back in the real world

Is it me n thee n Terry v the world again?? :lol:
Agreed 100% .... again!
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#135 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:00 AM

If an when it happens I just hope we are spared the tears of the calder and all tat went with it.


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#136 keighley

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

Understood. It's a long term thing, though. If, and of course it's a big IF, the three clubs joined in some way, then newer, younger fans would in my view take your place.

However, such a joining will not take place voluntarily and we'll inevitably end up with just one SL club in the area and it won.t be Feb as the critical mass of support just ain't there.

 

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.



#137 Ponterover

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:25 AM

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.

Absolutely, I'd say at least 20% of the crowd are under 16, this is largely thanks to the great community work the club do in the local schools.

I never influenced my son's choice of team, I'd long fallen out of love with the game when he started taking an interest. It was him that dragged me back to the game, at Featherstone.

#138 Padge

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:29 AM

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.



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#139 Robin Evans

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:37 AM

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.

No, but there is lots of bloody good research available (I can ref this if req), that those growing up in a violent household are much much more likely to be convicted of a violent offence when they become adults!
So in answer to your question, ... no, not necessarily but more more likely than a son who's dad is not a murderer!!
Daft analogy, but I hooe that answers ya question me owd cocker!
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#140 Ian (Pencil) Elliott

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Posted 21 April 2013 - 10:38 AM


I never influenced my son's choice of team, I'd long fallen out of love with the game when he started taking an interest. It was him that dragged me back to the game, at Featherstone.


I have influenced my son and I am proud that he enjoys watching the Rovers. If he wanted to change to support a glory hunting SL club then it would not really bother me but he would need to find some other mug to take him because I wold deffintily not.
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