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natan brown next?


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#1 bedlam breakout

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:15 PM

lets be kind to nathan brown, that has to be the worst saints team of the sl era that hes coaching but wouldnt be suprised if hes next for the chop, saints have never replaced james graham martyn long cunningham lyon sculthorpe sullivan etc etc, wellens is way over the hill and all this is starting to culminate in a 2nd rate saints team, think brown will get the blame and soon be gone, nice new stadium though.


Edited by bedlam breakout, 20 April 2013 - 06:34 PM.

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#2 Saint Billinge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:21 PM

lets be kind to nathan brown, that has to be the worst saints team of the sl era that hes coaching but wouldnt be suprised if hes next for the chop, saints have never replaced martyn long cunningham lyon sculthorpe sullivan etc etc, wellens is way over the hill and all this is starting to culminate in a 2nd rate saints team, think brown will get the blame and soon be gone, nice new stadium though.

 

Can the Saints afford to dismiss him?


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#3 bedlam breakout

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

Can the Saints afford to dismiss him?

isnt it called a" mutual thing" these days?


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#4 foozler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Can the Saints afford to dismiss him?

 

Since 2010 Saints have had Potter, Simmons, Rush & Cunningham and now Brown which means Saints need some consistency on the coaching front. I think Brown will get this season, however if things are not improved this time next year, he will be gone.


Edited by foozler, 20 April 2013 - 06:34 PM.


#5 Padge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

Saints should stick with Brown



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#6 Saintslass

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:58 PM

Since 2010 Saints have had Potter, Simmons, Rush & Cunningham and now Brown which means Saints need some consistency on the coaching front. I think Brown will get this season, however if things are not improved this time next year, he will be gone.

Brown won't be fired as McManus was quite open publically that he specifically chose Nathan Brown.  With McManus' reputation on the line I'd say Brown was very safe.

 

However, if we lose at London next week that will be four losses on the bounce.  Simmons got sacked for that (and that was after taking the team to the GF the previous season) so maybe McManus wil be consistent.  But I doubt it very much.



#7 Saintslass

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 06:59 PM

Saints should stick with Brown

Why?  Because everyone else can beat us with him as coach?



#8 Padge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:01 PM

Why?  Because everyone else can beat us with him as coach?

No



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#9 Saint Billinge

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:04 PM

isnt it called a" mutual thing" these days?

 

It's the compensation that would be the issue. For me, let's see how it goes. 


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#10 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:26 PM

I think Saints should either stick with Brown or else get Milward back.

#11 foozler

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

Brown won't be fired as McManus was quite open publically that he specifically chose Nathan Brown.  With McManus' reputation on the line I'd say Brown was very safe.

 

However, if we lose at London next week that will be four losses on the bounce.  Simmons got sacked for that (and that was after taking the team to the GF the previous season) so maybe McManus wil be consistent.  But I doubt it very much.

 

Oh I don't know.

 

The chairman made his money in a pretty ruthless business environment, I don't think he would have a problem firing Brown if things were really going down the pan. But then I think he would only do so having given him a season to prove himself.



#12 MrFussy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:45 PM

I'm not a big fan of Brown but at present replacing him would in all likelihood achieve nothing.  I doubt even Wayne Bennett could achieve much with this group of players.  That's where the problem lies and that's where we need to aim to improve.  If we recruit well and things don't improve then that will be the time to question Brown, until then I think it would be unfair to put too much of the blame on him.



#13 RSN

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:08 PM

Needs to sign a proper scrum half, have Gaskell at 6 and play Lomax at full back. They won't win anything without a settled half back combination. I don't rate Brown anyways but you can't expect to win anything with Wellens and Wilkin in the halves.

#14 Saintslass

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:08 PM

Oh I don't know.

 

The chairman made his money in a pretty ruthless business environment, I don't think he would have a problem firing Brown if things were really going down the pan. But then I think he would only do so having given him a season to prove himself.

But McManus would have one helluva compensation payout to make if he fired him in the near future as he is on a three year deal and I reckon the boss didn't get where he is today by paying massive compensation payouts!



#15 Saintslass

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:10 PM

Needs to sign a proper scrum half, have Gaskell at 6 and play Lomax at full back. They won't win anything without a settled half back combination. I don't rate Brown anyways but you can't expect to win anything with Wellens and Wilkin in the halves.

Brown ditched Gaskell off to Salford so we won't be seeing him again.  Anyone we send to Salford never returns.  It's a bit like a graveyard for Saints players!  We do have a couple of halfbacks in the under 19s, one of whom has played all of one half of one match this season but it is clear Brown does not want to blood any young halfbacks.  Now that we are out of the cup and sliding down the table I can't see us losing anything by blooding our young halfbacks.  They may as well get some experience in as we aren't going to end up anywhere significant this season.



#16 MrFussy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:22 PM

Brown ditched Gaskell off to Salford so we won't be seeing him again.  Anyone we send to Salford never returns.  It's a bit like a graveyard for Saints players!  We do have a couple of halfbacks in the under 19s, one of whom has played all of one half of one match this season but it is clear Brown does not want to blood any young halfbacks.  Now that we are out of the cup and sliding down the table I can't see us losing anything by blooding our young halfbacks.  They may as well get some experience in as we aren't going to end up anywhere significant this season.

I mostly agree.  We need to be careful though, if we bring in young players and they're on the end of too many losses then it could knock their confidence and in turn damage their development.  I certainly think we need to be giving them some game time though, the current players filling in there are no solution at all.  At least if we can bring through a couple of youngsters then the season won't be a complete loss.



#17 MrFussy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:27 PM

Needs to sign a proper scrum half, have Gaskell at 6 and play Lomax at full back. They won't win anything without a settled half back combination. I don't rate Brown anyways but you can't expect to win anything with Wellens and Wilkin in the halves.

I think you're spot on here, though I'm afraid Saintslass is probably right about Gaskell.  I think he's off contract at the end of the year so I very much doubt he'll be back.



#18 Saintslass

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:31 PM

I mostly agree.  We need to be careful though, if we bring in young players and they're on the end of too many losses then it could knock their confidence and in turn damage their development. 

True.  That would probably depend on their temperament.  Look at Keiran Dixon at London Broncos.  He's regularly on the losing side but he still manages to perform to a great level every match.  But I do take your point. 



#19 giwildgo

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 08:55 PM

Don't think knee jerk reactions over Brown are helpful. They only real mistake so far is not insisting that Saints recruited a scrum half as a priority when he signed the contract last year. It's their clear weakness. However its difficult to say how much flexibility they had given they are overpaying average overseas players like Hohaia, Perry, Meli and Laffranchi, and substandard recruits like Turner. People are also quick to forget that Saints were just starting to hit form when they lost their two best players - Lomax and Roby to injury. They'll pick up in a month or two, and be towards the top end of SL by September.

#20 MrFussy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:35 PM

Don't think knee jerk reactions over Brown are helpful. They only real mistake so far is not insisting that Saints recruited a scrum half as a priority when he signed the contract last year. It's their clear weakness. However its difficult to say how much flexibility they had given they are overpaying average overseas players like Hohaia, Perry, Meli and Laffranchi, and substandard recruits like Turner. People are also quick to forget that Saints were just starting to hit form when they lost their two best players - Lomax and Roby to injury. They'll pick up in a month or two, and be towards the top end of SL by September.

I agree with a lot of what you say, though I do quite like Turner.  He's never likely to be world class but he often looks pretty lively and daring and providing he's not being overpaid then he's a good enough option for one of the centre positions.  I'd like to think that in the near future we could have an established backline of 1. Lomax, 2. Makinson, 3. Turner, 4. Percival, 5. Swift, though obviously that's going to be largely dependant on how some of those players kick on.

 

We have a fair few players off contract this year so Brown should have plenty of room for manoeuvre in reshaping the squad.  I just hope we have the courage to make the necessary changes and don't take a safety first approach.

 

I'd love to think the return of Lomax and Roby will launch us up the league but it's hard not to have doubts after our recent form. 


Edited by MrFussy, 20 April 2013 - 09:35 PM.





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