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CHALLENGE CUP - TIME FOR A CHANGE


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#21 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:13 AM

-Lowest league team plays at home (i.e. amateur clubs if playing pro clubs, as well as NL1 when playing SL have guaranteed home draws)
-Only one overseas player allowed for SL clubs if playing a lower tier team

Thats fair

#22 Dave T

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:13 AM

Personally I love the challenge cup - a big tie in a knockout is brilliant.

 

I'll forever remember games like Wire v Wigan at Widnes when we beat them to get to Wembley for the first time in almost 20 years.

 

Semi finals are outstanding events.



#23 Dave T

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:14 AM

-Lowest league team plays at home (i.e. amateur clubs if playing pro clubs, as well as NL1 when playing SL have guaranteed home draws)
-Only one overseas player allowed for SL clubs if playing a lower tier team

Thats fair

Yes, I think there are some tweaks that we could come up with, I've always though the lower ranked team playing at home is better, but then I'm not sure whether 1400 at Keighley yesterday would be more lucrative than around 4k at the HJ Stadium.



#24 buford t justice

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:20 PM

id leave the challenge cup as it is, but move the Northern Rail cup final to Wembley as a curtain raiser to the Challenge Cup - would give the smaller clubs a long overdue day in the big time and something to aim for.
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#25 statties

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 12:32 PM

It would be a shame to lose the Cup. It does have a proud tradition.

 

Dont forget, the RFL have a vested interest the CC as they receive more revenue on the tournament than the money they receive from SL.

 

An idea might be to keep all SL teams out of the draw until there are two teams left, then have 4 groups of 4 or just straight to last 16. I reckon this would up the interest among the Championship clubs, especially as they get closer to being one of the two teams to join the SL clubs.

 

Or perhaps replace the rivalry round used for Magic Weekend and replace it with the Quarter Finals of the Challenge Cup. That should fill a stadium in one day no matter which 8 teams are left.

 

Not saying they are perfect ideas or that it does in fact need changing. The real issue is to make sure it is affordable and that the competition gets the promotion it deserves.



#26 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 10:25 PM

If they do restructure the league sizes, I'd look at changing to a group format. It would be the best way to generate more guaranteed fixtures (needed for season tickets to guarantee a gate) as well as guarantee cross-league fixtures to keep some interest up.

Could go with
SL - 12 teams (22 fixtures + Magic Weekend)
Championship - 12 teams (22 fixtures)
Championship 1 - 14 teams (26 fixtures)

Cup Qualifying Rounds (all seeded):
Qualifying Round 1 (48 clubs, NCL D2-3, CL South, Regional League qualifiers and Student qualifiers).
Qualifying Round 2 (52 clubs, NCL PL & D1 clubs enter).
Qualifying Round 3 (56 clubs, Championship, Championship 1 & 4 French clubs enter).
Qualifying Round 4 (40 clubs, SL clubs enter).

Winners of Round 4 into Challenge Cup competition.
Losers of Round 4 into Challenge Trophy.
Losers of Round 3 into Challenge Vase.

Challenge Cup - 4 x 5 teams (2 home + 2 away).
Challenge Trophy - 4 x 5 teams (2 home + 2 away).
Challenge Vase - 8 x 7 teams (3 home + 3 away).

Quarters, Semis & Final.

All games on same weekends. All finals at Wembley.

You'd shave off one fixture a year with this format (Round 5 of the Challenge Cup), as well as guarantee 2 big home games for the smaller clubs in the group games and one round against a SL team for a CC1 & NCL team, making it a big money spinner for them. All Cup comps are linked. The Cup dream is there for all still.
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#27 Just Browny

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:34 AM

Personally I love the challenge cup - a big tie in a knockout is brilliant.

I'll forever remember games like Wire v Wigan at Widnes when we beat them to get to Wembley for the first time in almost 20 years.

Semi finals are outstanding events.


Absolutely. Those knocking the Challenge Cup will fall silent if their club makes it to the semis or beyond.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#28 Mumby Magic

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:53 AM

Ok you saying that as a Bulls fan as you have had a few trips to the capital and also stand a chance of winning the cup at some point in the future. Batley put up a great fight yesterday, but ultimately they didn't win. If you have read the proposal in League Express the likes of Batley etc. would still get a chance to play a Super league team if they reached the last two of their respective competition as well as get the chance to play at Wembley, so those clubs are not being denied the

That would reduce the one-sided scores that have been common place in this competition since the game went full time

We have a bee in our bonnet like no other about one sided games like no other sport. It will happen at any level at any time. If say Wigan beat Widnes by 80 do we say lets have 13 in SL, Leeds beat Bulls by 76 Lets make it 12 to stop these one sided games. If games are one sided at ANY level in ANY competition then so be it. As a regular contributor on here and if you take the time to look at my post I post unbiasedly about the Bulls. I am a RL fan and concerned about the game and constant - if you excuse the terminology - farting around with the game can do more harm than good. Toulouse not so long back, a French semi pro club got to the Semis if memory serves me correct beating SL opposition along the way. Why should the Cup be placed in the hands of SL clubs? What about the extra revenue that the visit of Hull, Leeds or Wigan can generate to say Gateshead, Oldham or Skolars.

O and if you want me to refer to my club we got stuffed 71-10 in a CC Cup semi-final before the game went fully pro.

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#29 Mumby Magic

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:56 AM

id leave the challenge cup as it is, but move the Northern Rail cup final to Wembley as a curtain raiser to the Challenge Cup - would give the smaller clubs a long overdue day in the big time and something to aim for.

Best idea so far.

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#30 gingerjon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 07:20 AM

The Challenge Cup Final already comes close to selling out without suddenly needing to find dedicated spaces for about 10,000 fans wanting to cheer on the Northern Rail Cup final.  Given that the Challenge Cup needs to start around 2.30-2.45 the NRC match would have to kick off at, what, noon?  Allowing for extra time and presentations.

 

Also, the Challenge Cup is sponsored by Tetley's and the Northern Rail Cup isn't.  Been to Wembley on Challenge Cup final day?  See how much branding the sponsor gets all over the stadium?  Are they going to want to share that?

 

The Northern Rail Cup Final is already a grand day out and key date in the rugby league diary.  By making it a curtain raiser for the main event of the Challenge Cup final you'll devalue it.

 

IMO.


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#31 hindle xiii

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:01 AM

id leave the challenge cup as it is, but move the Northern Rail cup final to Wembley as a curtain raiser to the Challenge Cup - would give the smaller clubs a long overdue day in the big time and something to aim for.

Agree with this, I mooted something similar last week.


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#32 Dave T

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 10:25 AM

The Challenge Cup Final already comes close to selling out without suddenly needing to find dedicated spaces for about 10,000 fans wanting to cheer on the Northern Rail Cup final.  Given that the Challenge Cup needs to start around 2.30-2.45 the NRC match would have to kick off at, what, noon?  Allowing for extra time and presentations.

 

Also, the Challenge Cup is sponsored by Tetley's and the Northern Rail Cup isn't.  Been to Wembley on Challenge Cup final day?  See how much branding the sponsor gets all over the stadium?  Are they going to want to share that?

 

The Northern Rail Cup Final is already a grand day out and key date in the rugby league diary.  By making it a curtain raiser for the main event of the Challenge Cup final you'll devalue it.

 

IMO.

Yep - the sponsorship issue is a problem.

 

I have no issue with a double header in principle, my problem with it as it was back when it was trialed is that I think you qualified if you were knocked out before Rd 5, which tbh is a bit of an incentive for a club like Fev and Halifax to make sure they were knocked out by that stage so that they would have more chance of a Wembley trip.

 

If you would do a 'shield' competition, it should be the last two lower division clubs left in the comp - using QF's and Semi's if needed.



#33 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

I'd plum for getting the NRC/Challenge Plate (or whatever you want to call it) on it's own at Wembley, not as a curtain raiser. Let it grow. Might only start off around 10k but could develop into a great weekend.
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#34 bobbruce

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:31 AM

I'd plum for getting the NRC/Challenge Plate (or whatever you want to call it) on it's own at Wembley, not as a curtain raiser. Let it grow. Might only start off around 10k but could develop into a great weekend.


That would certainly be a brave move but it is a massive gamble. What does Wembley cost to hire £200,000 - £300,000?.

#35 gingerjon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

That would certainly be a brave move but it is a massive gamble. What does Wembley cost to hire £200,000 - £300,000?.

 

400k is what we heard when Sarries booked it.


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#36 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:34 AM


400k is what we heard when Sarries booked it.


But you wouldn't require the entire facility so can imagine it costing a lot less.
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#37 Padge

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 11:57 AM

Moving the Northern Rail Cup to Wembley would immediatlely alienate the sponsor, Northern Rail. They'd just love the idea of thousands of fans travvelling on Virgin Trains to the capital rather travelling around the North on their trains.



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#38 Just Browny

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:11 PM

Moving the Northern Rail Cup to Wembley would immediatlely alienate the sponsor, Northern Rail. They'd just love the idea of thousands of fans travvelling on Virgin Trains to the capital rather travelling around the North on their trains.


Actually all of those people travelling by Virign might be a great advert for Northern Rail..

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#39 Just to be clear

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:48 PM

Just to be clear, the Challenge Cup makes a profit, provides the club game's six biggest TV audiences of the year by a significant margin over the rest, and the biggest physical attendance being one of only two matches to attract over 30,000.

And those who say the game is financially in trouble and complain about the lack of exposure want to scrap it.

#40 superten

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

it should be saved.Run two cup comps or even three one for the full time pros one for semi pros and one for the amateurs.Theres very few shocks in cup now days. IF for example we reward the top two teams in championship a place in the pro cup what reward for there seasons efforts. At least its something since promotion isnt on the table or may be even the top ten teams to have a comp of 24 where top 8 in super league get a bye in round one and join the 8 winners in round two.


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