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CHALLENGE CUP - TIME FOR A CHANGE


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#61 Dave T

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 07:56 AM


I think there's a structure that can be out in place to make sure that all Championship teams can be involved in a Plate competition regardless of how well they do in the Cup up to a certain point. It would however most likely involve seeding the 4th Round (which I think they should do anyway).

yep - i like the idea, just thought the execution had a major flaw last time.

#62 Bulliac

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 10:28 AM

More should be done to get maximum bums on seats. The London - Fev attendance was a joke, and theyr'e now playing Bradford on a Friday night! They should be made to play when visiting fans can get there! Likewise with other mid-week games involving long distance motorway journeys, it's not fair on the travelling support!

I've posted elsewhere that this fixture could be a disaster. The problem for London is that they have undoubtedly the biggest catchment area for their own fans and travelling across the London area on Friday evening is going to be chaotic, which may well mean that many London fans will be unable, or won't even bother trying, to get to the Stoop before Kick off.

Edited by Bulliac, 25 April 2013 - 10:29 AM.

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#63 Southerner

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 11:33 AM

I agree there needs to be a shake up to increase interest and reduce winning margins. I am not qualified to answer this question, however would a 5m rule (instead of 10m) for the Challenge Cup increase interest and/or reduce margins? Personally It would do because (1) a major difference between pro and amateur teams are fitness levels, a 5m rule would reduce this advantage. (2) a substantial rule change usually brings about an increase in interest (especially as it's a throw back to the olden days).


Edited by Southerner, 25 April 2013 - 11:37 AM.


#64 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:31 PM

I agree there needs to be a shake up to increase interest and reduce winning margins. I am not qualified to answer this question, however would a 5m rule (instead of 10m) for the Challenge Cup increase interest and/or reduce margins? Personally It would do because (1) a major difference between pro and amateur teams are fitness levels, a 5m rule would reduce this advantage. (2) a substantial rule change usually brings about an increase in interest (especially as it's a throw back to the olden days).

But then it's not the same sport any more.

Any ideas to muck around with the actual laws of the sport on the field will not happen, nor should it. It would take away all integrity of the sport.
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#65 gingerjon

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 02:35 PM

But then it's not the same sport any more.

Any ideas to muck around with the actual laws of the sport on the field will not happen, nor should it. It would take away all integrity of the sport.

 

Cricket has different laws depending on the competition - it's still cricket.

 

In principle, for rugby, I think you're right but it's not necessarily clear cut.


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#66 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 06:09 PM

Cricket has different laws depending on the competition - it's still cricket.

In principle, for rugby, I think you're right but it's not necessarily clear cut.

It's advertised as a different form of cricket though. Test cricket, one day cricket and international cricket.

Are we suggesting having Rugby "League" and Rugby "Cup"?

Edited by Wellsy4HullFC, 25 April 2013 - 06:09 PM.

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#67 statties

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:20 PM

I agree there needs to be a shake up to increase interest and reduce winning margins. I am not qualified to answer this question, however would a 5m rule (instead of 10m) for the Challenge Cup increase interest and/or reduce margins? Personally It would do because (1) a major difference between pro and amateur teams are fitness levels, a 5m rule would reduce this advantage. (2) a substantial rule change usually brings about an increase in interest (especially as it's a throw back to the olden days).

 

 

Cricket has different laws depending on the competition - it's still cricket.

 

In principle, for rugby, I think you're right but it's not necessarily clear cut.

 

wow, I never even contemplated this. What a great opportunity to test new ways to make our sport even better. Agree GJ, there is nothing wrong with playing under minor law changes. Whether taking it back to 5m or not is the right one I am not so sure Southerner, but definitely worth exploring on another feed about new laws we would think to enhance our game and then try them out (not all at once) in the Challenge Cup.



#68 statties

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Posted 25 April 2013 - 09:25 PM

or, in some ways contrary to my thoughts on another thread, what if the CC became the WCC and a return to a mid season World club KO competition that international SL started in the 90's.

 

Now that is a way to preserve the CC but take it to a greater scale



#69 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 06:47 AM

wow, I never even contemplated this. What a great opportunity to test new ways to make our sport even better. Agree GJ, there is nothing wrong with playing under minor law changes. Whether taking it back to 5m or not is the right one I am not so sure Southerner, but definitely worth exploring on another feed about new laws we would think to enhance our game and then try them out (not all at once) in the Challenge Cup.

That's what friendlies are for, not a century+ cup competition. It's not for experimenting with the laws.

If they want to try this 5m change to see if it would make it more competitive, roll it out in a few friendlies first. Personally, I don't believe it'll make any difference. If it did, we'd have brought it in by now to make SL more competitive!
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#70 petero

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

A few sensible contributors on here make the case or simply state that in their opinions: the CC has run it's course and should be passed to history; I agree.

 

I have often been called a dinosaur by others on here, many of these are ones generally that tend to make quotes to the effect: we are in the 21st century now......etc, whatever that means? Yet they are in the main also, ones who are stating the case for the CC on the grounds of it having such historical and traditional items about it that make it essential to be retained at all costs, why? 

 

The CC is now so often, an embarrassment insofar as the visual effect that the so-called crowds display to the casual viewer when televised, the games are generally second rate in to many instances and the lack of atmosphere (not at them all) is absolutely un-R/L like. The CC is in the way of the season proper as the trend of coaches and players now it seems is to seek less games not more, then this is the obvious way to achieve that also.

 

So without much reflection on the subject I would say that the most obvious direction to take is to abandon it and put it to rest before it dies a natural death. :(



#71 welshmagpie

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 02:04 PM

Hello all, first post here so bear with me.

Personally, I love the idea of the Challenge Cup but am too much like many of you aware of its problems. I've just written my university dissertation on the role of Wembley and the Challenge Cup in the history of Rugby League, so it's almost ideal timing to voice my opinion on it.

It needs to be revitalised somehow. This is how I would do it.

Firstly, give it an international feel. Invite the champions of Serbia, Russia, Italy, Czech Rep (teams that take part in Euro Shield / Bowl) over for entry into one of the early rounds against amateur teams, that in itself must entice some local RL fans that support a pro club to go down to their local amateur club to see something that they may never witness again.

Secondly, in the later rounds, have all SL teams play away from home with no foreign players allowed unless they were playing in an all SL tie. I see somebody noted how 1,400 at Keighley was not as valuable to them as 4,000 at Warrington. My solution, to make these rounds the only RL games in the country I.e. no amateur games that weekend.nget the communities involved,mback to he example of Keighley have their players spend the weeks prior to the game visiting a handful of schools nearest Cougar Park attempting to flog £5 child tickets. If a child goes, so does a parent. The cup can only help improve community relations with the championship and championship one teams.

The cup is special and unique, we have to market it that way!

#72 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:18 PM

A few sensible contributors on here make the case or simply state that in their opinions: the CC has run it's course and should be passed to history; I agree.

I have often been called a dinosaur by others on here, many of these are ones generally that tend to make quotes to the effect: we are in the 21st century now......etc, whatever that means? Yet they are in the main also, ones who are stating the case for the CC on the grounds of it having such historical and traditional items about it that make it essential to be retained at all costs, why?

The CC is now so often, an embarrassment insofar as the visual effect that the so-called crowds display to the casual viewer when televised, the games are generally second rate in to many instances and the lack of atmosphere (not at them all) is absolutely un-R/L like. The CC is in the way of the season proper as the trend of coaches and players now it seems is to seek less games not more, then this is the obvious way to achieve that also.

So without much reflection on the subject I would say that the most obvious direction to take is to abandon it and put it to rest before it dies a natural death. :(

Isn't the CC Final the highest grossing RL game of the year in this country? I think that gives it reason enough to be retained!
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#73 Dave T

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:48 PM


Isn't the CC Final the highest grossing RL game of the year in this country? I think that gives it reason enough to be retained!

yup. Absolutely astounding that people want to scrap it just because 'its not as good as when I were a lad'

#74 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 09:53 PM

That's what friendlies are for, not a century+ cup competition. It's not for experimenting with the laws.

If they want to try this 5m change to see if it would make it more competitive, roll it out in a few friendlies first. Personally, I don't believe it'll make any difference. If it did, we'd have brought it in by now to make SL more competitive!


Wellsy - A 5m rule was a Rugby League rule for many years, so to say it wouldnt be rugby league any more is wrong. The Aussies pushed successfully to extend it to 10m as a knee jerk reaction to enhance the attack their own game (rather than trialling out other alternatives for several years). Unfortunately this single rule change has led to wider score margins, more predictable game, and less shocks. The game has more fitness emphasis on the bonkers running back and forward by 10m rather than flair and core rugby skills of running passing and tackling.

Personally I despise the 10m rule and would drop it overnight.

The aim should be to have close scores far more than allowing the attack to have far too much room

#75 roughyedspud

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:58 AM

if we need to change the laws of the game to even out a cup game....then the cup has had its day imo

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#76 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:10 AM

Wellsy - A 5m rule was a Rugby League rule for many years, so to say it wouldnt be rugby league any more is wrong.

So if you brought mob rules back to football, would it still be the same game?

The sport is defined by the laws of the game. If you change the laws, then you're playing a modified sport. It wouldn't be rugby league, it would be modified rugby league. Regardless of whether they did it when you were growing up or not, if you change the laws for certain games it's not the same game.

The Aussies pushed successfully to extend it to 10m as a knee jerk reaction to enhance the attack their own game (rather than trialling out other alternatives for several years). Unfortunately this single rule change has led to wider score margins, more predictable game, and less shocks. The game has more fitness emphasis on the bonkers running back and forward by 10m rather than flair and core rugby skills of running passing and tackling.

You playing that broken record again?
How many draws this season? How big has the winning margins been this week?

Personally I despise the 10m rule and would drop it overnight.

I think we all know that by now!

The aim should be to have close scores far more than allowing the attack to have far too much room

So we'll just get really low scores with next to no attack and end up like union where we're kicking for goal all the time? I think too many of our teams struggle to put together a decent attack with the 10m rule as it is!
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#77 Mumby Magic

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Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:27 AM

With regards the London game. It's been an ongoing theme that I've been to many a London ground but strangely not Stoop. Last year plans were in place but they moved it to Leyton! I couldn't get to the first game due to it being on Friday. So was delighted that when we drew them in the cup and thought it was a Sunday. I have had to rearrange a whole weeks plans to try and get to the game, but really why a Friday?

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