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More English players off to NRL


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#21 RSN

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:39 PM

So why are they taking more of our players than ever before?

By the way, your assertion that Australia's 5th team could beat us is ridiculous.


They may not be able to win but they could compete.

Full backs - Slater, Barba, Stewart, Dugan, Bowen

Wings - Morris, Boyd, Yow Yeh, Mead, Uate, Williams,

Centres - Inglis, Lyon, Hodges, Morris, Tonga, Jennings,

Half backs - Thurston, Cronk, Reynolds, Wallace, Pearce, Cherry Evans,

Hookers - Smith, Farah, Ennis.

Forwards I could name 20.

All those players could cut it at international level. We have 20ish players which are international class and can compete with top end NRL. They have more depth, But our top 20 is a match for the whole Aussie side bar Smith, Cronk and Thurston.

#22 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

They may not be able to win but they could compete.

Full backs - Slater, Barba, Stewart, Dugan, Bowen

Wings - Morris, Boyd, Yow Yeh, Mead, Uate, Williams,

Centres - Inglis, Lyon, Hodges, Morris, Tonga, Jennings,

Half backs - Thurston, Cronk, Reynolds, Wallace, Pearce, Cherry Evans,

Hookers - Smith, Farah, Ennis.

Forwards I could name 20.

All those players could cut it at international level. We have 20ish players which are international class and can compete with top end NRL. They have more depth, But our top 20 is a match for the whole Aussie side bar Smith, Cronk and Thurston.

Sorry to nit pick on that but if you're having an Aus 5th team you have to have 10 players in the wing, centre, and half back position not 1. At that level... we'd probably compete.

#23 The Parksider

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:51 PM

I think it is marvellous news that lots of Brits are going to the NRL. This could be the making of the international game and could signal the end of Australias dominance. We have already seen the benefits to the Kiwis of having so many in the NRL. Yes they lose the mid season one off's, but they have won several competitions in the last decade.

That's a positive view.

If our young players don't make it and come back here are they all the better for it (unlike those who tried RU and came back) If a young Englishman takes an NRL place is there an NRL player who may then be available to play here???

Maybe more positives!!

#24 zorquif

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

Neither did the blanket media attention they started getting after RU went professional.

 

 

I think they got a lot more attention post RUWC 2003



#25 jacksy

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:22 PM

That's a positive view.

If our young players don't make it and come back here are they all the better for it (unlike those who tried RU and came back) If a young Englishman takes an NRL place is there an NRL player who may then be available to play here???

Maybe more positives!!

The Aussie salary cap means less antipodeans are going to come here and more opportunity for young british lads to come through. Add that to the Brits in the NRL and more going, how can it not be good for our game. I do not see a downside to this i think it's a win win for us.

 

For years my (FC) team have been saying that brit lads aint good enough. Funny thing now, is that all of a sudden we have quite a lot of lads popping up that clealy are good enough now we can't get aussies and kiwis.


Edited by jacksy, 23 April 2013 - 01:24 PM.

Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.


#26 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:30 PM

Jacksy, the downside is that our game, the ESL is being asset stripped. Your assertion would be true if the juniors coming through are already as good as the players going to the NRL. Since the juniors coming through will require at least a few seasons to be as good (if they can be), there will be a drop in quality for the whole league. If (looking like when) Tomkins goes he is a player who is irreplaceable in our league. His standard of player comes through every 20 years or so. If you take out the highest quality players, the average must drop.

#27 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

I think they got a lot more attention post RUWC 2003

yes, and they milked it better than we could have done in a similar situation. Still, the biggest sport in the country doesn't have a successful national team. For me that speaks volumes.

#28 walter sobchak

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:45 PM

So why are they taking more of our players than ever before?
By the way, your assertion that Australia's 5th team could beat England is ridiculous.

Probably for the same reason they sign kiwis, also I didn't say Australia's 5th team could beat England but "give us a run for our money."

#29 jacksy

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:51 PM

Jacksy, the downside is that our game, the ESL is being asset stripped. Your assertion would be true if the juniors coming through are already as good as the players going to the NRL. Since the juniors coming through will require at least a few seasons to be as good (if they can be), there will be a drop in quality for the whole league. If (looking like when) Tomkins goes he is a player who is irreplaceable in our league. His standard of player comes through every 20 years or so. If you take out the highest quality players, the average must drop.

The aussies were assett stripped by all and sundry for donkeys years. There game did not suffer and the quality did not go down. How did they manage that? quality coaching, quality tactics, good management and being media savvy


Edited by jacksy, 23 April 2013 - 01:52 PM.

Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.


#30 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 01:59 PM

The aussies were assett stripped by all and sundry for donkeys years. There game did not suffer and the quality did not go down. How did they manage that? quality coaching, quality tactics, good management and being media savvy

They managed that for several reasons:
1) They have a larger pool of talent to select from (lets be honest its a bigger game out there)
2) The players who came over were largely past their prime. There are a few exceptions to this, but not many.
3) The Aussies have a far better youth structure in general and are more patient in bringing the youth through. But when the chance does arise they are more likely to trust the youngsters (in the modern era Leeds and more recently Wigan seem to be getting the hang of this point with Warrington and Saints also seeming to start catching on). How many aussie clubs would go out and panic but an average journeyman?

For me those are the three main reasons, although there are others.

#31 RSN

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:06 PM

Sorry to nit pick on that but if you're having an Aus 5th team you have to have 10 players in the wing, centre, and half back position not 1. At that level... we'd probably compete.


I didn't have time to think of ten of each. You'd find 10 centres and half backs. You'd find five hookers. Probably struggle on wingers though and maybe ten props. Second Rowers they're very strong in aswell.

#32 hindle xiii

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

Let's not get too carried away, it's not as if Tansey, Mathers, Thorman and Worrincy came back any better. One trip down under a world beater does not make.


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On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#33 jacksy

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:17 PM

They managed that for several reasons:
1) They have a larger pool of talent to select from (lets be honest its a bigger game out there)

     no arguments there, except that we have the whole of Great Britain
2) The players who came over were largely past their prime. There are a few exceptions to this, but not many.

     I do not agree with that, i am sure every team within SL had many Oz/Kiwi players in their prime within their team. That is not including those that went to Union or AFL. 
3) The Aussies have a far better youth structure in general and are more patient in bringing the youth through. But when the chance does arise they are more likely to trust the youngsters (in the modern era Leeds and more recently Wigan seem to be getting the hang of this point with Warrington and Saints also seeming to start catching on). How many aussie clubs would go out and panic but an average journeyman?

Our youth structure has been there for (David Waite era) years but clubs like mine, chose not to give kids a chance at all. Now look at FC and the lads that have played this year, not one of them has looked out of place. In fact some look bloody marvellous

For me those are the three main reasons, although there are others.


Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.


#34 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:26 PM

What era are you referring to when you say  Aussiesa   ewhere past their prime?It was stated that we assett stripped them for donkeys years not the 80s or 90s.

They managed that for several reasons:
1) They have a larger pool of talent to select from (lets be honest its a bigger game out there)
2) The players who came over were largely past their prime. There are a few exceptions to this, but not many.
3) The Aussies have a far better youth structure in general and are more patient in bringing the youth through. But when the chance does arise they are more likely to trust the youngsters (in the modern era Leeds and more recently Wigan seem to be getting the hang of this point with Warrington and Saints also seeming to start catching on). How many aussie clubs would go out and panic but an average journeyman?

For me those are the three main reasons, although there are others.


but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#35 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:26 PM

Jacksy,

so basically we agree on 2 out of 3 point (you say the whole of Great Britain, but being a minor sport thats a tad naive).

I still think very few of the real aussie stars came over in their prime. Johns and Langer did spells when they were past it, Miles at Wigan in the twilight of his career. Kenny and Sterlo from the generation before I'll grant you but they played in the UK in the Aussie off season.

Wouldn't do if we agreed on everything though would it?

#36 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:29 PM

What era are you referring to when you say  Aussiesa   ewhere past their prime?It was stated that we assett stripped them for donkeys years not the 80s or 90s.

I thought we were talking about whilst the standards of the sport were massively different. For that those era's are the main ones. (some argument for the 70's but less so)

#37 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:32 PM

pre war and post war up to the early early 60s we took lots of the top players from the financially weaker Aussie leagues.That is why they imposed a transfer ban on us taking their players

I thought we were talking about whilst the standards of the sport were massively different. For that those era's are the main ones. (some argument for the 70's but less so)


but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

#38 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:39 PM

pre war and post war up to the early early 60s we took lots of the top players from the financially weaker Aussie leagues.That is why they imposed a transfer ban on us taking their players

and in essence stopped the asset stripping I was talking about!

That option isn't open to us.

#39 jacksy

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:42 PM

Jacksy,

so basically we agree on 2 out of 3 point (you say the whole of Great Britain, but being a minor sport thats a tad naive).

I still think very few of the real aussie stars came over in their prime. Johns and Langer did spells when they were past it, Miles at Wigan in the twilight of his career. Kenny and Sterlo from the generation before I'll grant you but they played in the UK in the Aussie off season.

Wouldn't do if we agreed on everything though would it?

No it would  not :)  I was not just talking about SL stripping them of players though..Lyon/Barrett/Gidley etc... i was also talking about AFL and Union taking there players too..Folau,Hunt,SBW etc. If we sat down and made a list. I am pretty sure the vast majority of overseas SL signings would not have been has beens.


Edited by jacksy, 23 April 2013 - 02:43 PM.

Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players.


#40 RidingPie

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 02:48 PM

No it would  not :)  I was not just talking about SL stripping them of players though..Lyon/Barrett/Gidley etc... i was also talking about AFL and Union taking there players too..Folau,Hunt,SBW etc. If we sat down and made a list. I am pretty sure the vast majority of overseas SL signings would not have been has beens.

I'm also quite sure that the SL signings that weren't by and large were not the best (Lyon I'll grant you but he had well documented problems and was a deemed a big risk, Barrett and Gidley to a slightly lesser extent) players in their generation. Had Warrington for example signed Alfi in his prime, that would have been different.




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