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Farage poles the electorate


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#121 John Drake

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

Does anyone on here actually have a vote on Thursday? There are no elections taking place in my neck of the woods.


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#122 JohnM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

UKIP will split the vote, but the Tories are banking on capturing the centre, anti-Labour vote at the next election - and, of course, taking back the hard right defectors to UKIP, who will fear the return of a Labour government. I doubt the Tories are that concerned by council results at this stage as long as they retain power at the centre.

UKIP will come nowhere near gaining a Westminster seat - it is too extreme for that.

  

 

Conservative chances of success in local elections vastly increased as Tebbit promote UKIP: http://www.dailymail...azi-salute.html


Edited by JohnM, 01 May 2013 - 08:44 AM.


#123 JohnM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:03 AM

I'm sorry. I'll write that again.  Scotland will find out for itself when it applies to join the EU and the €  post- devolution.  I meant  subsidiarity

 

Correction accepted, but they are very different creatures: subsidiarity, and the powers it involves, being in the control of the member states; devolution would be the EU dictating what the member states can be responsible for.

 

The rest of Methven's post seems to answer questions I did not ask.

 

You didn't ask any questions, but you did come up with a couple of common errors - understandable given that they are constantly pushed by the Europhobic parts of the press, but errors nonetheless. That is that the EU is in any way socialist or that it is overly bureaucratic. It is, and has been, dominated by the centre-right for years now, at Council, Commission and Parliament level. And, as your fellow Thatcherite, the Polish Foreign Minister, points out, the EU bureaucracy contains fewer than half the officials the UK's HMRC. 

 

 

Its great to be a Thatcherite. She kept us in Europe.

 

in any case you don't need to automatically misrepresent and take issue with everything I post. You and I agree on many issues.

 

For example,  we both support Scottish Independence and we both support EU membership.

 

Anyway, no errors. Can you point me to where I wrote that the EU is socialist?  I did point out that France is undoubtedly a socialist country but made no such claim about the EU. Equally,  by most measures, Germany is hardly right wing.

 

As for EU bureaucracy, yes, it accounts for around "just" 40,000 staff but its as you well know, not a numbers game. Eurocrats don't do anything like the same job as R and C staff. R and C staff deal with the minutiae of collecting revenue and tax.  Those in the European  Parliament deal with things like spending 180,000,000 € a year to move the whole thing between Brussels and Strasbourg once a month.



#124 gingerjon

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:17 AM

Does anyone on here actually have a vote on Thursday? There are no elections taking place in my neck of the woods.

 

I do indeed.  Bucks County Council is up every four years.

 

The ward has changed slightly since 2009 but broadly back then the Tories got 57%, Lib Dems got 20%, Ukip 15%, Labour & independents the rest.  Turnout was 44%.  We have candidates from the Tories, Lib Dems, Ukip and Labour this time round.  It would take a massive stay-at-home or swing from the Tories to Ukip to make much of a difference here.

 

Across Bucks as a whole last time the Tories won 46 seats, Lib Dems 11, everyone else 0.  The Tories got just shy of 50% of the vote, Lib Dems 29%, Ukip 14% (40% turnout).  County-wide there could be places where a Tory 'protest' vote to Ukip might have an impact but only if the Lib Dem vote turns out (which I suspect it won't) or in the odd places where Labour has an outside chance.


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#125 JohnM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:37 AM

 I have already exercised my postal vote: in favour of Lincolnshire joining the UK in place of Scotland.



#126 Wolford6

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

 I have already exercised my postal vote: in favour of Lincolnshire joining the UK in place of Scotland.

 

 

Let's be honest, they don't call it the Lincoln Handicap for nothing.

B)

 

In fact, they're so handicapped that they ask if we can run it for them in Yorkshire.


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#127 gingerjon

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

Here's the councils being contested

 

You can see why Cameron is on a hiding to nothing.  All the Tories can do is lose from this position.


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#128 JohnM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 10:57 AM

aye, we're not daft , you know.  

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. Don't....



#129 Griff9of13

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:42 AM

The 'Fox' wades in with her two-penneth


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#130 West Country Eagle

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 04:31 PM

Does anyone on here actually have a vote on Thursday? There are no elections taking place in my neck of the woods.

Yep, council elections here in Bristol. In my ward (Easton, I think), it seems to be a shoot-out between the standing Lib Dem and Labour, with the Greens coming up on the rails. We also have an independent candidate. Haven't seen any literature from UKIP (thankfully) or the Tories (ditto). Have no idea who I'll vote for, as I now resent the Lib Dems and am fed up of Labour not getting their house in order. Will have to look at the election leaflets.

I can understand right-wingers voting for UKIP, as they're like a more rabid/loony version of the Tories, but I can't understand why anyone left-leaning would vote for them. They're not only bonkers, but proper right-of-the-Tories bonkers.
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#131 tonyXIII

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:03 PM

We have elections here in North Yorks tomorrow, too. Four candidates - Lab, UKIP, Cons, Lib/Dems. At the last election, the Tories polled 67% of the vote in North Yorks. In my local Division (Malton), the breakdown was Cons 54%, Lib/Dem 40%, Lab 7% (give or take rounding errors).

 

Should I vote Lib/Dem to put the Cons nose out of joint? (not a whim, I have voted Liberal before in local elections) Or should I vote UKIP just to wind you lot up?

 

Eeeny, meeny, miny, mo! :lol:


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#132 Wolford6

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:24 PM

We have elections here in North Yorks tomorrow ... (Malton).

 

Should I vote Lib/Dem to put the Cons nose out of joint? (not a whim, I have voted Liberal before in local elections) Or should I vote UKIP just to wind you lot up?

 

Eeeny, meeny, miny, mo! :lol:

 

You must be on cloud nine after having the good fortune to move to the proper side of the Pennines.

 

All your neighbours will be voting UKIP as they are worried about all this immigration turning into a dangerous trend.

 

;) B)


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#133 Methven Hornet

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:35 PM

Its great to be a Thatcherite. She kept us in Europe.

 

in any case you don't need to automatically misrepresent and take issue with everything I post. You and I agree on many issues.

 

For example,  we both support Scottish Independence and we both support EU membership.

 

Anyway, no errors. Can you point me to where I wrote that the EU is socialist?  I did point out that France is undoubtedly a socialist country but made no such claim about the EU. Equally,  by most measures, Germany is hardly right wing.

 

As for EU bureaucracy, yes, it accounts for around "just" 40,000 staff but its as you well know, not a numbers game. Eurocrats don't do anything like the same job as R and C staff. R and C staff deal with the minutiae of collecting revenue and tax.  Those in the European  Parliament deal with things like spending 180,000,000 € a year to move the whole thing between Brussels and Strasbourg once a month.

 

 

Its great to be a Thatcherite. She kept us in Europe.

 

She sure did! (Apologies to those who had just about managed to get her out of your minds).

 

thatcherMS0311_468x7772.jpg

 

in any case you don't need to automatically misrepresent and take issue with everything I post. You and I agree on many issues.

 

For example,  we both support Scottish Independence and we both support EU membership.

 

No we don't. If UKIP or JohnM believe in something, a good rule of thumb is to disagree.

 

Anyway, no errors. Can you point me to where I wrote that the EU is socialist?  I did point out that France is undoubtedly a socialist country but made no such claim about the EU. Equally,  by most measures, Germany is hardly right wing.

 

"Clearly the "EU" isn't entirely socialist..." clearly indicates that you think the EU is largely or even mostly socialist. Which is clearly erroneous (see the domination of EU institutions by the centre-right) and the type of error a Ukipper would make. And just because many centre-right parties in Europe (eg those in Germany) take a more responsible attitude to both economic policy and social protection, that doesn't make the countries they govern in any way socialist.

 

As for EU bureaucracy, yes, it accounts for around "just" 40,000 staff but its as you well know, not a numbers game. Eurocrats don't do anything like the same job as R and C staff. R and C staff deal with the minutiae of collecting revenue and tax.  Those in the European  Parliament deal with things like spending 180,000,000 € a year to move the whole thing between Brussels and Strasbourg once a month.

Well, if we're talking about bureaucracy in terms of waste then of course we're talking about numbers. How else would you identify waste? 


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#134 Methven Hornet

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

Here's the councils being contested

 

You can see why Cameron is on a hiding to nothing.  All the Tories can do is lose from this position.

 

I think it was William Hague who once proposed a senate-type upper house as a replacement for the Lords, with equal members from each county. Looking at that link you can appreciate his reasoning.

Mind you, didn't the Tories abolish any county council that didn't vote for them?


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#135 JohnM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:21 PM

Its great to be a Thatcherite. She kept us in Europe.

 

She sure did! (Apologies to those who had just about managed to get her out of your minds).

 

thatcherMS0311_468x7772.jpg

 

in any case you don't need to automatically misrepresent and take issue with everything I post. You and I agree on many issues.

 

For example,  we both support Scottish Independence and we both support EU membership.

 

No we don't. If UKIP or JohnM believe in something, a good rule of thumb is to disagree.

 

Anyway, no errors. Can you point me to where I wrote that the EU is socialist?  I did point out that France is undoubtedly a socialist country but made no such claim about the EU. Equally,  by most measures, Germany is hardly right wing.

 

"Clearly the "EU" isn't entirely socialist..." clearly indicates that you think the EU is largely or even mostly socialist. Which is clearly erroneous (see the domination of EU institutions by the centre-right) and the type of error a Ukipper would make. And just because many centre-right parties in Europe (eg those in Germany) take a more responsible attitude to both economic policy and social protection, that doesn't make the countries they govern in any way socialist.

 

As for EU bureaucracy, yes, it accounts for around "just" 40,000 staff but its as you well know, not a numbers game. Eurocrats don't do anything like the same job as R and C staff. R and C staff deal with the minutiae of collecting revenue and tax.  Those in the European  Parliament deal with things like spending 180,000,000 € a year to move the whole thing between Brussels and Strasbourg once a month.

Well, if we're talking about bureaucracy in terms of waste then of course we're talking about numbers. How else would you identify waste? 

  You really are Scottish aren't you! You could start an argument in an empty room, eh, see you, Jimmy?

 

Are you or are you not in favour of Scottish independence? 



#136 tonyXIII

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 09:16 PM

You must be on cloud nine after having the good fortune to move to the proper side of the Pennines.

 

All your neighbours will be voting UKIP as they are worried about all this immigration turning into a dangerous trend.

 

;) B)

 

Actually, I've lived in Yorkshire since 1973, when I started at York Uni, except for 1998 - 2012, when I lived in Greece. Shhhh! Don't tell the natives, but I like it here.

 

As for cloud 9, that comes in about a fortnight when we beat your lot. ;)


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#137 Steve May

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:46 AM

And, as your fellow Thatcherite, the Polish Foreign Minister, points out, the EU bureaucracy contains fewer than half the officials the UK's HMRC.

The "problem" of EU bureaucracy is not the number of people working in Brussels. It's the requirement to comply with EU law. I am personally very familiar with EU law on public sector procurement - the famous "OJEU" regulations.

And the problem there is not actually the regulations - it's the way people apply them. Like H&S, the issue is over-officious idiots wilfully misinterpreting the rules to make themselves feel important. The actual rules are pretty sensible and helpful.

If you took the rules away, you'd still be left with the idiots.

That's me.  I'm done.


#138 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 04:23 AM

The "problem" of EU bureaucracy is not the number of people working in Brussels. It's the requirement to comply with EU law. I am personally very familiar with EU law on public sector procurement - the famous "OJEU" regulations.

And the problem there is not actually the regulations - it's the way people apply them. Like H&S, the issue is over-officious idiots wilfully misinterpreting the rules to make themselves feel important. The actual rules are pretty sensible and helpful.

If you took the rules away, you'd still be left with the idiots.

 

Yes, I'm sure that is the case.


"There are now more pandas in Scotland than Tory MPs."

#139 Griff9of13

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

and here's another one...


"it is a well known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

#140 gingerjon

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:33 PM

and here's another one...

 

There's nothing racist about portraying black people as chimps.  It's just japes.  Eh, what?


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