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LEE BRIERS


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#101 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:19 AM

Super league is making a laughing stock of Rugby League. DR is just morally wrong! I stopped watching that level round about the third season. If I didn't love my amateur club so much I could very easily walk away from the game completely now. No great loss to the game I suppose, but I know there are many others who feel the same way as I do. Went to my first game in 1971 and fell in love with the game, but it was about sport then, not money, and no I'm not a dinosaur. Don't want a return to Winter and 20 stone props. Let SL clubs run reserve teams instead of spending huge amounts on a few players and for God's sake - STOP ALLOWING FORWARD PASSES!

#102 shaun mc

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:05 AM

But if you are worried by another club's players having a big impact on the season - surely this applies whether they are 22 or 32?

No I'm not Dave, check what I posted - I talked about development players/under 23's only.
And those being owned and registered by a parent club then becoming dual registered.
A 32 year old has no place on DR (however maybe Andy Powell could be an exception!), but isn't he a great example of what reserve team competitions are for?
Anyone over the age of 23/24 or has played more than 25 SL games should not be available for DR.


Loyallion - players that are free agents to sign with other clubs as they wish such as Rooney and Thackray are not part of the dual registration arguement. DR players are not able to sign elsewhere as they are employed and registered by a parent/SL club.
The whole 'we played within the rules' thing absolutely does not wash with me whatsoever.

Clubs should know the RFL won't think things through and create robust processes!

Edited by shaun mc, 05 May 2013 - 10:06 AM.


#103 jpmc

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

Whitehaven had Jamie Rooney playing for them. Hardly an up and coming young player. Are we saying that only young players on the up should be allowed to turn out in the Championship to progress the game? Its within the rules that Haven can sign and play Rooney (and Doran who used to play in Swinton's A team many years ago) as can Workington play Thackray. It was within the rules that Swinton could play Briers to help the young players in their team.

Change the rules before castigating teams!

This is a terrible post to read.

#104 The Parksider

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 10:59 AM

Clubs should know the RFL won't think things through and create robust processes!

The lack of tight rules may not be an oversight by the RFL, it may be deliberate so clubs can use the system as they want.

This is all about benefitting SL clubs and serious struggling CC clubs so why would the RFL who allowed it tighten it up so it no longer benefits SL clubs and seriously struggling CC clubs??

#105 Dave T

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 11:55 AM

No I'm not Dave, check what I posted - I talked about development players/under 23's only.
And those being owned and registered by a parent club then becoming dual registered.
A 32 year old has no place on DR (however maybe Andy Powell could be an exception!), but isn't he a great example of what reserve team competitions are for?
Anyone over the age of 23/24 or has played more than 25 SL games should not be available for DR.


Loyallion - players that are free agents to sign with other clubs as they wish such as Rooney and Thackray are not part of the dual registration arguement. DR players are not able to sign elsewhere as they are employed and registered by a parent/SL club.
The whole 'we played within the rules' thing absolutely does not wash with me whatsoever.

Clubs should know the RFL won't think things through and create robust processes!

Thats fine. There are about 50 different versions of DR in demand if you listen to the fans. That is obviously your personal preference.

The point im challenging is the one about people being outraged that players from other clubs are having a big impact on the Championship. If a person has a massive issue with that, then they cant support DR in any form, but many will as their club are using it in a way they can justify.

#106 Dave T

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:02 PM

Let me try and clarify further.

Fans of certain clubs justify DR if used for u23's - who benefits?

The players.
The SL club.
The Championship club.

So the above three things benefited.

So onto Lee Briers - who benefited?
The player - yep.
Sl club - yep.
Championship club - yep.

In their outrage on DR people bring all sorts of things into the equation:
Players forced onto clubs
Own club players being released.
Being a SL club feeder team.

All these things are issues whether a player is 22 or 32 but people will accept it if its a young lad. Or is it because they are defending their own clubs actions.

There are so many contradictions in peoples arguments on this.

#107 Keith T

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

Rewind back to last season when there was in a place a dual registration system that allowed clubs to have up to 4 players Under 23 on dual registration and those players could be from any Super League club.   There was no partnering of clubs.    This system was used by many Championship clubs including some of those that are not taking part this season because of the club partnering involved.

 

A problem with that system was the same as there is this season that the Championship clubs have no control over which players are available to them to play in upcoming matches.   They are told who is available and hopefully a player who plays in the position they are short of will be available.

 

Because the Super League clubs did away with their Under 23 teams and the RFL introduced this club partnership scheme it meant that it was inevitable that SL clubs would try to use their partnered Championship club to give players game time returning from injuries.   

 

That altered the whole structure of the system because one Championship club could face another Championship club containing up to 5 full international players in theory and then another club would face them without their internationals with a different sort of result.    This is where it affects the integrity of the Championship competition.    

 

I personally, would like to see the system altered not to control players by age but by SL experience, limiting it to say 25 SL appearances.    Any player that has played more than 25 SL matches would not be allowed to be part of the system.


I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#108 Blind side johnny

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:59 PM

The lack of tight rules may not be an oversight by the RFL, it may be deliberate so clubs can use the system as they want.

This is all about benefitting SL clubs and serious struggling CC clubs so why would the RFL who allowed it tighten it up so it no longer benefits SL clubs and seriously struggling CC clubs??

 

 

You may be right. However the increasing disillusionment amongst followers of Championship clubs created by this move may simply increase that number of seriously struggling KPC clubs.

 

Would this be a good thing?


Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


John Ray (1627 - 1705)

#109 The Parksider

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:59 PM

You may be right. However the increasing disillusionment amongst followers of Championship clubs created by this move may simply increase that number of seriously struggling KPC clubs.
 
Would this be a good thing?

The effect of DR on crowds is hard to quantify because there's been a drop in crowds but also bad weather. On the whole I detect most crowds down on the same fixture last year.

Hunslet's crowds as more of an "A" team are largely unaffected, but even if they were a significant percentage down the facts as have been purveyed to me is that the deal with Leeds is keeping the club alive.

The trade off may well be less independence means less fans but there is also less wages to pay.

I suspect clubs will decide themselves if they want DR and how far to go with it, there's no rules on this however there are those who want tight rules on it, that could affect a few clubs significantly.

So I can't see the RFL tightening up the rules and strangling clubs at the same time.

#110 Manx RL

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:26 PM

Well done Lee. Well done Swinton.
- Adepto Successu Per Tributum Fuga -

#111 mark richardson

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:19 AM

It would be a travesty if Barrow were relegated and Swinton stayed up because Lee Briers scored an interception against Whitehaven?
There are many travestys in rugby league
Barrow had several years of success based on cheating.
Whitehaven have gone bump more than long john silvers leg.
Leigh have signed an unsustainable squad and are in financial mire
So what should Swinton do?
Sign a load of super league cast offs and go the same way? Yes we've no ground...yes we've got a small bunch of supporters. Nothing to do with any of this debate. Just little digs. Again and again.

The vast majority of our team since Gary Chambers took over have been full Swinton players. We seem not to be breaking any rules and our crowd on Thursday was commendable.

People should look a little closer to home before muck slinging.
They should also consider what they are advocating with their ill wishes

Edited by mark richardson, 06 May 2013 - 07:20 AM.


#112 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:42 AM

I've got nothing against Swinton. I wrote the amateur page in the Swinton programme for 10 years at Station road and Gigg lane. As one of my local clubs I go and watch them as often as I can, although I don't like going to Leigh. I have many friends who support the club and know people involved in the running of the club. My problem is with dual registration, Super league and the RFL. I look forward to going to the Swinton .v. Crusaders game. I would like to ask people like "Spelly" what they honsestly think about the situation. I can't help but look upon Swinton now as Warrington reserves. What happened to Kash Watkins Mark? He scored against Crusaders in a pre-season game and I haven't seen a mention of his name since. Is he injured?



#113 mark richardson

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

He disappeared Im afraid as hes done before. Its a shame hes a talented player. I guess you are Ken Roberts?



#114 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:37 PM

Yes I am Mark. We had Kash at Eccles last season and he was doing really well until he got injured. He seemed to be enjoying his rugby as well. For a while he came to the games even though he was injured. The next I heard he had signed for Swinton. He is a good player Mark, but I have seen lots of good players walk away from the game. They usually get into their 30's and then wish they had carried on!



#115 mark richardson

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:39 PM

I remember reading your reports in the programme. I slways used to enjoy looking back when we signed an amateur at what you'd said.
I was excited and pleased when we signed Kash and I'm guessing hes had problems applying himself at Swinton as he did previously for us and at Oldham.

#116 gogledd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:19 PM

Like Celtic Rooster I looking forward to the Swinton v Crusaders Northern Rail cup clash on 19th May at the LSV.  I am hoping that Lee Briers makes a full recovery from injury and that he reconsiders his retirement from international rugby and plays again for Wales in the Rugby League World Cup in October.

 

But how do you think would I feel if Swinton fielded him against North Wales Crusaders (no Dual Reg agreements with any clubs) and we were knocked out inb a cup tie that we could realistically win and progress further in this competition?

 

IF we are to retain DR then it has to be regulated so that not only SL clubs benefit.


Edited by gogledd, 06 May 2013 - 04:20 PM.


#117 Dave T

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:43 PM

Like Celtic Rooster I looking forward to the Swinton v Crusaders Northern Rail cup clash on 19th May at the LSV. I am hoping that Lee Briers makes a full recovery from injury and that he reconsiders his retirement from international rugby and plays again for Wales in the Rugby League World Cup in October.

But how do you think would I feel if Swinton fielded him against North Wales Crusaders (no Dual Reg agreements with any clubs) and we were knocked out inb a cup tie that we could realistically win and progress further in this competition?

IF we are to retain DR then it has to be regulated so that not only SL clubs benefit.

are you suggesting Swinton havent benefited?

#118 gogledd

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

I understand that Swinton are getting the benefit of Lee Briers guile and experience, but I am questioning whether he should be playing in Championship games or cup games that can effct the final places and possibly the finances of other clubs. I am questioning whether DR is ethically the best thing for the Championship and Championship 1 unless there are stricter controls on dual registration.

 

The North Wales Crusaders played against South Wales Scorpions on Easter Monday. The Scorpions coach had selected 2 DR players who were pulled from selection 24 hours prior to KO by Wigan. So the Scorpions fielded a team who were not the team who had trained to play Crusaders and the coach has no control over his team selection. So how do Scorpions benefit?

 

I am suggesting there are far more benefit for the SL club and personally I am glad Crusaders have steered clear of this potential banana skin.


Edited by gogledd, 06 May 2013 - 07:08 PM.


#119 Dave T

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:37 PM

I understand that Swinton are getting the benefit of Lee Briers guile and experience, but I am questioning whether he should be playing in Championship games or cup games that can effct the final places and possibly the finances of other clubs. I am questioning whether DR is ethically the best thing for the Championship and Championship 1 unless there are stricter controls on dual registration.

 

The North Wales Crusaders played against South Wales Scorpions on Easter Monday. The Scorpions coach had selected 2 DR players who were pulled from selection 24 hours prior to KO by Wigan. So the Scorpions fielded a team who were not the team who had trained to play Crusaders and the coach has no control over his team selection. So how do Scorpions benefit?

 

I am suggesting there are far more benefit for the SL club and personally I am glad Crusaders have steered clear of this potential banana skin.

Yes - but you suggested that ONLY SL clubs benefit. I'd disagree with that tbh.



#120 Celtic Rooster

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 09:54 AM

Super League clubs benefit most because they don't have to run reserve teams and they can pay their Aussie stars a lot more! Championship clubs benefit in the short term by having more experienced or potentially more skillfull players in their side for a particular game, but those players are not available all the time and for every one of them that wears a shirt their is a lad who genuinely wants to play for that club stood around watching. Its morally wrong and doesn't give a fair reflection of championship club standards. I am seriously considering only watching amateur RL from next season and I love following North Wales crusaders.






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