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lee briers


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#21 unicorn106

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 06:57 AM

Will we still be thinking the Lee Briers situation is ok if Swinton beat Haven and then end up above us? I certainly don't.
I don't want to see 1 single championship games result influenced by a player such as Briers. Don't care who they play for or who they are playing. As much as I'll laugh at Coxy squirming over DR - its wrong. We could be on the end of it at some point.

 Nobody in their right mind should think the Lee Briers situation is okay. I don't like the system one little bit, but if we have to use it, they should make it under 23s only. We and haven have used the system as it should be used ( appart from Ade Gardener), we will be playing a team on Sunday which will probably have 4 DR players in it. Survival in this division could all boil down to who gets in the best players using DR.......That is so wrong.



#22 Keith T

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

Can you just imagine what state the Championship would bein if every club adopted the same policy that Swinton have done over DR?

If each club had "signed" 6 SL club players at the start of the season and thenused up to 5 other SL players on DR there would be a lot current Championship players not playing in this league. Take our team if we had done the same with Widnes. Which 9 or 10 players from our team wouldn't be in there?

I can understand some long suffering Swinton fans sticking up for what their club is doing and many at Town would be doing the same in their position but it doesn't alter the fact that this is not the way to go for the future of the Championship competition

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#23 town4me

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

This over use of the DR system could become more common as the season goes on as going down is now unthinkable and could take years to get over or could even kill club off alltogether. I am sort of in favour of it if its used lightly like both west cumbrian teams have used it but some are now, or some will possibly use it later on in the season, as a crutch to achieve survival at all costs.

Edited by town4me, 01 May 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#24 shaun mc

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:38 PM

If the bottoem 9 clubs are as tight together on points in August as they are now, pect to see some totally mercenary uses of the DR system especially if SL clubs have a free weekend (Challenge cup semi finals?). This is where integrity of the competition will be thrown out. Who knows whether Town will gain or lose from it come August - what is clear is that it shouldn't happen.

#25 DavidM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:39 PM

It should be a developmental tool for 18-21 year olds and should be limited to three . The quick fix and short term gain from getting the star players on a weekly basis needs to be taken away , doing this and pushing the DR envelope as far as it will go distorts games and the league to much . I've talked of using it to strengthen us before but that's because it's there , it's not a consent of the system . And that's the problem isn't it , as long as that temptation is there to get the SL players in and get the short term , fast acting injection it will be used and one can argue abused . And as the need and frustration gather the temptation becomes irresistible ! We'll see that come july and august .I'm not blaming individual clubs , the price of failure is so great and the advantages of the easy way so obvious what we see is understandable . But the temptation needs taking away at source and the can of worms closed from on high . The RFL needs to go back to the drawing board and tighten up and narrow the parameters . Good intentions maybe , but to often its been turned into poor looking practice. If every club had used it as an aid in need to a strong playing roster then fine ,as we have , but some clubs have looked at it and decided to give it much wider significance , building a disproportionate amount of their playing strength around it .That can't be right , and I hope that there aren't teams who are built like a house of cards when this system disappears .

Edited by DavidM, 01 May 2013 - 12:55 PM.


#26 Keith T

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:32 PM

I honestly see no difference in Swinton playing Briers than Haven playing Ade Gardner, or Hunslet playing Mitch Aichurch, etc,.    The problem with this one is to do with the 6 players that they "signed" at the very start of the season and since that they played other SL player returning from injury - Wood, McCarthy and Laithwaite against us in the very first match.

 

To many people's eyes that was a cynical way of getting around the system to give Warrington players game time that they wouldn't have got otherwise.  Whilst it is not breaking any rules it certainly was outwith the spirit of the dual registration system and as I said in an earlier post, it's a good job every Championship club didn't decide to follow suit or it would definitely have become a reserve team league.


I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#27 DavidM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

That's it , the misusing of the spirit of the original idea with the confusing shenanigans we've seen , and the standard of the player just popping into our league are making a mockery of the leagues integrity . As I say narrow the perimeters and remove the loopholes , and take away that big fat short term temptation for desperate clubs and frustrated fans !!!

Edited by DavidM, 01 May 2013 - 01:44 PM.


#28 town4me

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

One good thing to see is it hasn't exactly made swinton dominate the league. Limit it to no more than 3 players at a time and no older than 23 years old.

Edited by town4me, 01 May 2013 - 01:51 PM.


#29 DavidM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 01:55 PM

You can't gel a team can you mate, it's all so fragmented and unplanned . How can all these players have the heart to fight for Swinton in the trenches when they can whizz off when the moves served its purpose . It's backfired hasn't it .The danger is other teams piling in to the limit with stars if they're sinking fast . But that may backfire to ? Our guys may not all be of that ability but have one loyalty and desire to give it all for one club .

Edited by DavidM, 01 May 2013 - 01:59 PM.


#30 wonky

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:20 PM

to be honest i havent seen in any of towns games when the dual reg players have stood out above the standard of the championship players. certainly none of the widnes lads have for town, paul wood and mccarthy certainly never. but lee briers could certainly control and win the game on his own on thursday.
the futures bright,the futures blue and white

#31 town4me

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:28 PM


to be honest i havent seen in any of towns games when the dual reg players have stood out above the standard of the championship players. certainly none of the widnes lads have for town, paul wood and mccarthy certainly never. but lee briers could certainly control and win the game on his own on thursday.

yeah i agree wonky briers is a different situation as he can control a game play making,organising and with is kicking game. He must be the most high profile SL players used so far on DR.

#32 DavidM

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:29 PM

Lets hope that doesn't start on Sunday wonky ! . This could easily be of one of toughest remaining home games . Your right wonky , teams do it to a degree because they can and the SL team is pushing them for their own purpose , but it doesn't always bring the required end result - remember Richie Owens for Keighley on telly , he was awful that night !!

Edited by DavidM, 01 May 2013 - 02:29 PM.


#33 wonderofwood

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

to be honest i havent seen in any of towns games when the dual reg players have stood out above the standard of the championship players. certainly none of the widnes lads have for town, paul wood and mccarthy certainly never. but lee briers could certainly control and win the game on his own on thursday.

your correct Wonky - sometimes DR can work against you - they dont train with the team all week and then are expected to play at SL level. Look at what Worky have had this year off widnes - 3 academy players just coming out of the under20's comp and one playing in a foreign postion and the two other coming back from serious injury and then Davies , again who is a bit part player and Kavanagh who spent 3years in the championship before Widnes came up. You really wouldnt expect them to stand out against seasoned pros. That's why I personally feel for both the parent club and the accepting club a one year loan deal where they train together and are part of the team is a much better way of getting the best out of the player , which only benefits the team.

 

hence why when everyone talks about Swinton they must realise that they took 19/20 year old lads which wern't given full time contracts  at Warrington and gave 6 of them 12month contracts. I have no problem with this BUT seasoned pro's just getting game time after injury above regular Swinton players is wrong and add to that the even more amusing situation where Swinton have then loaned players back tp Warrington & London Bronocs makes a farce of the rules.

 

However I will say this, Warrington were against the situation and have spent a lot of time and money over the last three/four years developing young lads and these boys are the cream of the crop , even those that wern't given full time contracts . So I commend them for looking after them and I can also see why Swinton would take them, they cost buttons and given time will be playing some suberb rugby for the swinton fans to see.


Edited by wonderofwood, 01 May 2013 - 05:26 PM.


#34 Death to the Rah Rah's

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:01 AM

I think it stinks, and if it was Town who were facing Swinton with Lee Briers playing you would all be shouting 'foul play' on this forum. I sincerely hope that Whitehaven beat Swinton tonight. If Swinton are going to be Warrington's 'A' team then they deserve to be relegated into Championship One and play in a development league.

The financial implications of relegation to the bottom tier for traditional professional clubs like ourselves, Whitehaven and Barrow doesn't even bear thinking about.

If Lee Briers only plays one game for Swinton and Whitehaven are defeated tonight and end up being relegated by 2 or 3 points it would be a travesty. I for one am thinking about Cumbrian rugby league and I am making a moral stance tonight and will be willing Whitehaven on to win.

Up the Haven!! (but I will be back wearing my blue and white scarf tomorrow)

#35 Oneday

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

You can't gel a team can you mate, it's all so fragmented and unplanned . .... Our guys ..... have one loyalty and desire to give it all for one club .

 

Thats the crux of it from our point of view I reckon. Its about team spirit which we have plenty of. My worry is that with such a small squad, already in the ludicrous situation of last year in putting players on the bench who will not play, and with Widnes already in an "injury crisis" are we able to take any advantage from DR?



#36 havenhater

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

Well not happy about it either but they had Gardner not so long ago and we were going to have briscoe so there all international players so what's the solution

#37 Marrafan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:39 AM

Well not happy about it either but they had Gardner not so long ago and we were going to have briscoe so there all international players so what's the solution

 

Lat season DR was a better scheme where they were only under 23's allowed on DR. That way we could not have used Gardner and you could not have used Brisco. A team like Barrow or either of us could be relegated because of who gets the best DR players and next season knowing the RFL the whole system could change. No consolation to the teams relegated and sitting in Championship 1. I think it is the way Swinton and Warrington have gone about it that annoys everyone. There was nothing wrong with the old loan system at least you had a player for a month but SL wanted to save money by picking the cream of the crop then not running a team to play them in. There is no way Briers would go to Swinton for a month!!!

It is what it is so we just have to play what's in front of us. 

 

You could get to see two different Hunslet teams in the NRC and league because of DR



#38 DavidM

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:02 AM

I've got to agree with the last two posts . We all use Swinton as a stick to beat the DR with , but its the system as it stands that's wrong .
The temptation to take the star player has proved to great for a number of clubs , so it's hard for many to take the moral high ground .
We're gonna see more and more of this I fear and its your bad luck if your on the wrong end of it . The leagues integrity is going to be highly compromised by this DR set up . I can't barrack for haven just because Briers is around , they took 2 Saints first teamers to Keighley and won a vital 3 points with Gardner highly prominent . Not criticising them , just pointing out its something that's virtually across the board and teams can't tut tut at others . Briscoe was coming here .The spirit of this rule has been totally ripped apart and so it's back to the drawing board . Come the late summer when teams are in real trouble , and those phone calls come through from Saints , Leeds , Wigan or yes Widnes , what ya gonna do ? Last day of the season with a few teams on the edge will be interesting. Hopefully next year all teams and not just some in the league will have their own squads of 26/7 players to choose from for the whole season .What a radical idea !!!!

Edited by DavidM, 02 May 2013 - 10:14 AM.


#39 Spacecake

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:43 AM

Personnally i would love to see Swinton and Hunslet relegated as they are the ones Who have abused the system. Get on Haven +8 you heard it here 1st :)



#40 donald

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

I've got to agree with the last two posts . We all use Swinton as a stick to beat the DR with , but its the system as it stands that's wrong .
The temptation to take the star player has proved to great for a number of clubs , so it's hard for many to take the moral high ground .
We're gonna see more and more of this I fear and its your bad luck if your on the wrong end of it . The leagues integrity is going to be highly compromised by this DR set up . I can't barrack for haven just because Briers is around , they took 2 Saints first teamers to Keighley and won a vital 3 points with Gardner highly prominent . Not criticising them , just pointing out its something that's virtually across the board and teams can't tut tut at others . Briscoe was coming here .The spirit of this rule has been totally ripped apart and so it's back to the drawing board . Come the late summer when teams are in real trouble , and those phone calls come through from Saints , Leeds , Wigan or yes Widnes , what ya gonna do ? Last day of the season with a few teams on the edge will be interesting. Hopefully next year all teams and not just some in the league will have their own squads of 26/7 players to choose from for the whole season .What a radical idea !!!!

worse thing is our last game is swinton at home if swinton need a win to stay up they could use 5 first teamers meaning another team goes down hopefully not a cumbrian team but it could happen




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