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Reds to bid for Dobson and Paterson?


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#41 The Parksider

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

So what's the issue here? A club may sell players so a fan wants out of the game? Seems a bit mard to me. Glad I didn't walk away from the game when Warrington had to sell Iestyn Harris and Paul Sculthorpe.

To be fair to Keeny the issue isn't Rovers selling two players.

I think (and keeny can let us know) the issue is his anticipated Rovers decline in on field performances as a result, the anticipated consequence of drop in crowds and the anticipation to make ends meet the club will sell again if they can e.g. Mickey Paea/Kris Welham.

The model he's probably basing this on is Cas, and again at a guess down the line he sees HKR's SL application being refused and you know where that will take the club, probably back to pre-Hudgell days and crowds around 1500.

In one Keeny?

#42 Larry the Leit

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:50 AM

Been coming and would really spell the end of us as a Super League proposition if it pans out. I'd bail if we lose either or both. Having said that, they'd be my 2 priority targets if I were Dr K.

Rich and newly rich sides hovering around the carcasses of rotting clubs. Oh dear oh dear Super League, whenever will you learn?

 

I read with interest you persistent and ill informed postings recently that Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone should consider merging despite there being no real cultural or shared identity.  Not to mention the significant gaps between the conurbation and the draw of Leeds from Castleford. 

 

I now note that you feel that the loss of a couple of players from your own club would signal the end of them in the top division of the game, and that would mean you walking away.  It's interesting that you're not suggesting that HKR merge with FC now.  Why is this?

 

Note, I'd hate to see a(nother) Hull merger, but it's essentially one conurbation and one city.



#43 Dave T

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

To be fair to Keeny the issue isn't Rovers selling two players.

I think (and keeny can let us know) the issue is his anticipated Rovers decline in on field performances as a result, the anticipated consequence of drop in crowds and the anticipation to make ends meet the club will sell again if they can e.g. Mickey Paea/Kris Welham.

The model he's probably basing this on is Cas, and again at a guess down the line he sees HKR's SL application being refused and you know where that will take the club, probably back to pre-Hudgell days and crowds around 1500.

In one Keeny?

Yep - so it's up to his club to stop any rot.



#44 Larry the Leit

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

Players come and go, as do benefactors.  That's the thing that clubs and their fans need to grasp and plan for. 


Edited by Larry the Leit, 02 May 2013 - 10:33 AM.


#45 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:39 AM

The facts as they stand:

As a Hull KR fan I would like to follow and have faith in Hull KR.

As someone who has many demands on my time and money I am fussy and selective and not interested in following a "sell to survive" team, whether this is Hull KR or anyone else.

If someone decrees a merged Hull side is the best solution I would tend to agree and follow said side in the name of progress.

Dobson and Paterson are far and away our 2 best players. With them we're a borderline play-off team, without them we're barely even SL standard.

The rest of you do the maths. Blame me for being disloyal all you want but I'm merely the voice of an inevitable fan drain if this pans out. Rovers would be lucky to get 5K next season without Dobson and Paterson.

#46 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:45 AM

To be honest I think it's you who needs a reality check. You say you understand how it works because you follow sport. Then seem surprised that a cashed up teams looking to take the best players from teams struggling for cash. I'm afraid that's just how pro sport IN THE UK works.

Fixed.

#47 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 11:46 AM

Why shouldn't you?!

Seriously, you just moan about the game and your club. You b*tch about Leeds fans winning trophies all the time, but refuse to watch your club during the hard times. You are the type of fan the game could do without to be honest. Doom and gloom. Never able to be pleased. Spreader of the negative.

I'll join the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" group. More fans may watch our game when the negative nancies leave to go find where the grass is greener.

Yes, as teams are cherry-picked of their best players more fans will flock through their gates.

Brilliant logic.

Edited by DeadShotKeen, 02 May 2013 - 11:47 AM.


#48 The Parksider

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

As someone who has many demands on my time and money I am fussy and selective and not interested in following a "sell to survive" team, whether this is Hull KR or anyone else.

If someone decrees a merged Hull side is the best solution I would tend to agree and follow said side in the name of progress.

The rest of you do the maths. Blame me for being disloyal all you want.

Absolutely fair play to you and your admission you'd be interested in a merged side and would follow it is again fair play for your honesty.

Forget the loyalty rubbish. The vast majority of fans go to be entertained, and when they are not they don't go.

It shows in the crowds.

The only remaining question is this. IMHO there will not be a merger. Pearson will likely bide his time ensuring any players he fancies for Hull at HKR he has a go at. He'll also look to ensure the best juniors now pick Hull Academy where there's currently more of a guaranteed future and bigger wages.

He'll market Hull FC to the whole of Hull and if this policy looks to be getting a bit mean towards HKR and they struggle he may save them from oblivion by offering them chance to be the "A" team. I've seen this happen before BTW.

Hull FC could benefit from Rovers out of the way, if FC hit the big time again would you go??

#49 DeadShotKeen

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:47 PM

Bit naughty of me amending bobbruce’s post like that but the point is that I can choose not to watch sport in the UK if I don’t like the way it is structured, which I don’t.

The Yanks and Aussies do not subscribe to “sell to survive”.

#50 The Parksider

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:53 PM

Bit naughty of me amending bobbruce’s post like that but the point is that I can choose not to watch sport in the UK if I don’t like the way it is structured, which I don’t.

The Yanks and Aussies do not subscribe to “sell to survive”.

Nor does Superleague.

If you and Cas carry on selling to survive you will both be out.

Don't keep blaming Superleague.

#51 The Parksider

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

Yep - so it's up to his club to stop any rot.

Apparently it's not?

The RFL/SLE are supposed to help?

#52 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 01:07 PM

Bit naughty of me amending bobbruce’s post like that but the point is that I can choose not to watch sport in the UK if I don’t like the way it is structured, which I don’t.

The Yanks and Aussies do not subscribe to “sell to survive”.

The difference being MONEY. Whether you like it or not,RL is a niche sport in the UK,it isn't in Oz.Hence clubs in the NRL don't have to sell to survive.It's the nature of most sports that clubs have to sell to survive,it's something you'll have to live with.


Once you have tasted excellence,you cannot go back to mediocrity.

#53 Hullfan

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:10 PM

Tomkins Morley Dobson Paterson all stunts IMO

#54 Old Frightful

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:31 PM

HKR by the way had more Hull born lads in their 25 than Hull........

For the first time since they've been in SL, I bet. 

 

Had Hudgell invested in youth from day 1 in SL then they may be looking rather healthier now.

 

But, all he wanted to do was get one over Hull FC, which meant all his money was spent on the best Aussies he could buy for an immediate result and it worked but in the short term only.

 

Now he's being careful with his money, Rovers will obviously try and challenge Hull for the local youngsters but let's not pretend Hudgell suddenly has this idea that this is the way forward.

 

It's just that he's fed up of ploughing money into a club that, no matter what his efforts are, never seem to be able to attract regular 10k+ gates.


          NO BUTS IT'S GOT TO BE BUTTER......                                 Z1N2MybzplQR6XBrwB9egniMH8xqYQ5s.jpg                                                                                                                     


#55 RSN

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:06 PM

Koukash should be cherry picking Cas and Hull K R asap IMO if he wants success. Dobson Patterson Clark and Huby would make decent signings. Sign Gaskell on a permanent basis if Saints are to stupid to play him more often. That would be a start for this season.

I hate saying he should pick up the players from the weaker clubs. But how do you think the transfers or Smith, Green, Moon, Ratchford, Myler, Arundel, Westerman ect ect have all come about, it's pro sport and you have to do it to get to the top.

#56 Middleman

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 06:22 PM

Tomkins Morley Dobson Paterson all stunts IMO

Tomkins of course  - free publicity & most of the NRL are finding Wigans asking fee is eye watering  

Morley Not so sure  - Salford have always wanted him, and the Morley now wanting Salford is now more likely :-

 Feb 2007 Would have liked to have been playing for Salford? I would have liked to represent my home town as a professional. I played for Salford Schoolboys, so it's a small regret that I never played for the club. I did speak to Salford 2007 before I came back to Britain, but the talks didn't go on for too long.I had all the "Judas" stuff, and that was just my family! I think the new stadium will be great for the club and the city of Salford in general. It could have had a bearing on my decision

 MEN Sport March 2013: “Let’s see what happens but I guess with this issue you never say never and I’m not saying no at this stage.I was flattered when Salford approached Warrington to see if I was available. You have to admire what Marwan Koukash is doing at Salford – he clearly means business"

 

Dobson - Paterson , your guess is as good as mine , it's more  likely Players Agents seeing Noble arrive at Salford as a cue to talk their charges up and conning existing clubs into better / extended deals.

Or Noble will have a pool of   targets he feels will improve the playing squad and they're just shaking the Craven Park tree to see if any fall out.  


Edited by Middleman, 02 May 2013 - 06:27 PM.


#57 goldcoaster

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 09:03 PM

For the first time since they've been in SL, I bet. 
 
Had Hudgell invested in youth from day 1 in SL then they may be looking rather healthier now.
 
But, all he wanted to do was get one over Hull FC, which meant all his money was spent on the best Aussies he could buy for an immediate result and it worked but in the short term only.
 
Now he's being careful with his money, Rovers will obviously try and challenge Hull for the local youngsters but let's not pretend Hudgell suddenly has this idea that this is the way forward.
 
It's just that he's fed up of ploughing money into a club that, no matter what his efforts are, never seem to be able to attract regular 10k+ gates.


Spot-on. Hull KR are paying the price for 5 years of short-sighted ness. It may be too late for them though.
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#58 The Parksider

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:59 AM

Spot-on. Hull KR are paying the price for 5 years of short-sighted ness. It may be too late for them though.

I don't think it is spot on.

When Rovers came into Superleague they came in, in a city that already had Hull FC with an established Academy that was taking the best kids in Hull.

It was never going to be easy, or quick for Rovers to establish a share of that, it was always going to take time.

But as a consequence of the licensing system HKR set up their academy straight away and of course seasoned professionals didn't and couldn't suddenly start coming through.

But after several years young lads appeared in the HKR side who are good Superleague players and as I say the HKR squad this year showed more Hull born lads in it than FC's squad.

I dread to think how, if Hunslet had got into Superleague how long it would have taken to have started to beat Leeds to the best local kids. Probably longer than it took HKR to attract them east rather than west of the city.

The other thing on this is if Hunslet had got into SL that would not have changed the number of quality kids playing in the city. When lad like Stevie Ward and Paul McShane came to prominence instead of just joining Leeds automatically there'd have been a tug of war between the clubs.

As I say more Hull born young lads are now in the HKR squad that in the Hull FC squad. That's one heck of an achievement and if anyone should be castigated it's Hull FC who in a hotbed of RL can't do better in their juniors.

But maybe the reality is two clubs in one city end up having to shares resources, and resources halved is less resources for both.

#59 westhuller

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:41 AM

I don't think it is spot on.

When Rovers came into Superleague they came in, in a city that already had Hull FC with an established Academy that was taking the best kids in Hull.

It was never going to be easy, or quick for Rovers to establish a share of that, it was always going to take time.

But as a consequence of the licensing system HKR set up their academy straight away and of course seasoned professionals didn't and couldn't suddenly start coming through.

But after several years young lads appeared in the HKR side who are good Superleague players and as I say the HKR squad this year showed more Hull born lads in it than FC's squad.

I dread to think how, if Hunslet had got into Superleague how long it would have taken to have started to beat Leeds to the best local kids. Probably longer than it took HKR to attract them east rather than west of the city.

The other thing on this is if Hunslet had got into SL that would not have changed the number of quality kids playing in the city. When lad like Stevie Ward and Paul McShane came to prominence instead of just joining Leeds automatically there'd have been a tug of war between the clubs.

As I say more Hull born young lads are now in the HKR squad that in the Hull FC squad. That's one heck of an achievement and if anyone should be castigated it's Hull FC who in a hotbed of RL can't do better in their juniors.

But maybe the reality is two clubs in one city end up having to shares resources, and resources halved is less resources for both.


You are wrong and mis informed about the Hull FC academy set up.We are under Pearson now running it like a it should be.Under the previous regime the lack of investment and mismanagement was embarrassing in the youth department.It will take time for us to turn this around but we are already seeing the hard work coming through with the likes of Lineham, Shaul, Crooks etc making it in SL.

#60 The Parksider

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 07:27 AM

You are wrong and mis informed about the Hull FC academy set up.

I'm not wrong that Hull have had an academy for many years and HKR started an academy up when they came in.

I'm not wrong that HKR have passed Hull in terms of having Hull born lads in their first 25 so the criticisms of Rovers are unfounded.

I'm not wrong that there aren't enough quality lads to stock one Hull team let alone two so that's a problem for both clubs in the city.

As for the quality of the academy set ups that's another question, maybe many of them are useless.

Maybe not enough quality sportsmen take up RL in this country.

But either way two clubs sharing scant resources doesn't help either be "super"




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