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#61 oldham13

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:01 PM


Membership contracts with discounted season tickets along with a strong business plan, the support of local business, massively discounted prices for school and college students and a strong marketing plan then it is possible

96K from membership scheme
100K Plus from sponsorship
50 to 75K needed from match day admissions, merchandise and sales from the club events
Income from RFL ??

The business will need to raise up £300K per annual






We could always forge a partnership with Manchester City and play at the new stadium being built for the reserves on the A635...

ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

We Are Oldham Roughyeds


#62 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:00 PM

When the Oldham Bears went into liquidation they did so with over a million pounds worth of debt.

 

Did the four directors  ( which includes the two current directors ) upon reforming the club as Oldham Rugby League Club (1997) Ltd pay off the debts of the Oldham Bears.

 

The answer was no.

 

So why should anyone pay off the debts of the present club.

 

The debts have accrued due to the management of the directors and they and they alone should be responsible to pay the debts of that club but as they are only liable under law to pay or lose the amount of their own shareholding a lot of directors of different sports clubs run under the guise of a Limited Company do not seem to care.

 

The debts in the accounts state they are £200,000 plus but who is the money owed to.

 

In regard to whether a new club would be allowed to start up again with Oldham RLFC in whatever guise having got into financial  problems for a second time is up to the RFL.



#63 SINGE

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

When the Oldham Bears went into liquidation they did so with over a million pounds worth of debt.

 

Did the four directors  ( which includes the two current directors ) upon reforming the club as Oldham Rugby League Club (1997) Ltd pay off the debts of the Oldham Bears.

 

The answer was no.

 

So why should anyone pay off the debts of the present club.

 

The debts have accrued due to the management of the directors and they and they alone should be responsible to pay the debts of that club but as they are only liable under law to pay or lose the amount of their own shareholding a lot of directors of different sports clubs run under the guise of a Limited Company do not seem to care.

 

The debts in the accounts state they are £200,000 plus but who is the money owed to.

 

In regard to whether a new club would be allowed to start up again with Oldham RLFC in whatever guise having got into financial  problems for a second time is up to the RFL.

The main reason, of course, is to avoid sporting sanction (not saying you donlt know this Harry)

Given the RFL typically makes it up as it goes along, anything could happen.


Edited by SINGE, 07 May 2013 - 02:31 PM.


#64 emigrated roughyed

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 02:34 PM

When the Oldham Bears went into liquidation they did so with over a million pounds worth of debt.
 
Did the four directors  ( which includes the two current directors ) upon reforming the club as Oldham Rugby League Club (1997) Ltd pay off the debts of the Oldham Bears.
 
The answer was no.
 
So why should anyone pay off the debts of the present club.
 
The debts have accrued due to the management of the directors and they and they alone should be responsible to pay the debts of that club but as they are only liable under law to pay or lose the amount of their own shareholding a lot of directors of different sports clubs run under the guise of a Limited Company do not seem to care.
 
The debts in the accounts state they are £200,000 plus but who is the money owed to.
 
In regard to whether a new club would be allowed to start up again with Oldham RLFC in whatever guise having got into financial  problems for a second time is up to the RFL.


Thats assuming that the present club will go belly up, it wont. Not so long as CH keeps his Cash cow, it will continue to trail along the bottom of the barrel. Why cant CH go back to being an accountant, he did it before he doesn't have to be dependent on the club to pay his mortgage......let it go man. By the way I would pay 20 per month and I live in Australia, I presently pay $180 per year for a Rabbitohs membership for my daughter and I. We see one match per year and get a key ring and cap, and I believe it value for money. The Rabbitohs management make you feel like one of the family.

#65 saints10coach

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

When the Oldham Bears went into liquidation they did so with over a million pounds worth of debt.
 
Did the four directors  ( which includes the two current directors ) upon reforming the club as Oldham Rugby League Club (1997) Ltd pay off the debts of the Oldham Bears.
 
The answer was no.
 
So why should anyone pay off the debts of the present club.
 
The debts have accrued due to the management of the directors and they and they alone should be responsible to pay the debts of that club but as they are only liable under law to pay or lose the amount of their own shareholding a lot of directors of different sports clubs run under the guise of a Limited Company do not seem to care.
 
The debts in the accounts state they are £200,000 plus but who is the money owed to.
 
In regard to whether a new club would be allowed to start up again with Oldham RLFC in whatever guise having got into financial  problems for a second time is up to the RFL.

The Bears directors did not include the two current directors.

#66 oldham13

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

Are people serious about a fans buy out for Oldham Rlfc, if so a public meeting is clearly needed!

The aim of the meeting would be to gage support for a fans buyout and also to identify suitable people to take on specific roles and responsibilities. I do think we need to find serious backers to prop up this business project.

One question unanswered at this time "is the club for sale" or are the current board just looking for partnership investment?, one option available is to purchase 50% of the club and work in partnership with the current board.

FC United of Manchester have developed a viable sports business in recent years, We could learn from this club!

http://www.fc-utd.co...m_structure.php

office@fc-utd.co.uk




Membership of FC United of Manchester

For 2012/13 season there are currently 3210 members, 2766 adult members and 444 FCUth members.

Own Your Own Club
FC United of Manchester offers you a unique opportunity to own your own football club.

The club is fully owned and democratically run by supporters on a one member one vote basis. Members vote on all major decisions, such as electing the Board.

Every member has an equal share in ownership, so for £12 you could co-own our club.

Not For Profit
FC United is run in a profitable way, but is a not for profit organisation.

All money raised is reinvested in running the club, providing services for members and carrying out community work.

The constitution means the club can never be bought by an individual or a company, so no fat-cats can get their hands on our club's money.

Share Our Vision
Most members are committed fans of FC United, but we encourage membership by anyone who believes in our aims and ethos.

By putting supporters and community at the heart of our club, we're showing that fans can have a powerful say in the way football should be run.

The more members we have, the louder our collective voice will be.

Membership Draws
As an added benefit of membership we have a random draw of all registered members four times a season and a prize is presented to the winner:


•Draw 1 - VIP passes for two to a home game
•Draw 2 - Shirt signed by the squad
•Draw 3 - £100 voucher for the club shop
•Draw 4 - VIP attendance for two at the end of season presentation night
Every member goes into the draw, so all members have four chances a season.

If The Kids Are United
Young people play an important role in FC United and for only £3, junior members can join and prepare for when they're old enough to become co-owners at age 16.

Many junior activities take place throughout each season and junior members can help to plan these for themselves.

How to Join
Membership is £12 a year for adults or £3 for juniors under 16 and it's easy to pay membership by lots of methods:

• Online through the club shop
• Post a completed form for each member. Downloadable form here. Send with a cheque payable to FC United to: Membership, FC United of Manchester, Hope Mill, 113 Pollard St., Manchester, M4 7JA.
• Contact the FC United Office by phoning 0161 273 8950 to pay by credit/debit card.
• Email Membership@fc-utd.co.uk with your details.
• Visit the Membership Stall outside the Megacabin at Gigg Lane on matchdays.

FC United of Manchester - changing the face of football and returning it to the fans.




The Manifesto: Who We Are and What We Mean

FC United of Manchester is a new football club founded by disaffected and disenfranchised Manchester United supporters. Our aim is to create a sustainable club for the long term which is owned and democratically run by its members, which is accessible to all the communities of Manchester and one in which they can participate fully.

Although driven by very different circumstances, FC United of Manchester takes as its inspiration a number of supporters' groups who have gone down this route, including AFC Wimbledon, who have offered unstinting support.

FC United of Manchester is intended to create a football club which addresses the concerns which many Manchester United fans have had over the last decade or more with how the club and football have developed, culminating in the club's takeover by Malcolm Glazer. We will follow the best traditions of Manchester United's past by developing policies which encourage youth participation in terms of both playing and supporting.

FC United of Manchester will be formed as a member-owned, democratic, and non-profit making entity on the Industrial and Provident Society company model. The EGM will focus on the election of a board of directors by the members, and the direction of the club over the coming season.

We have ambitious and long term plans. Above all we want to be seen as a good example of how a club can be run in the interests of its members and be of benefit to its local communities. However, we are a new club and will require patience in order to reach our goals. With the help of all our members and supporters we are confident we can achieve them.

Seven core principles of how the club will operate are set out below, and once agreed by the membership, will be protected by all elected Board members:

•The Board will be democratically elected by its members.
•Decisions taken by the membership will be decided on a one member, one vote basis.
•The club will develop strong links with the local community and strive to be accessible to all, discriminating against none.
•The club will endeavour to make admission prices as affordable as possible, to as wide a constituency as possible.
•The club will encourage young, local participation - playing and supporting - whenever possible.
•The Board will strive wherever possible to avoid outright commercialism.
•The club will remain a non-profit organisation.

Edited by oldham13, 08 May 2013 - 12:28 PM.

We Are Oldham Roughyeds


#67 Ex-scrumhalf

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

Totally agree that a public meeting is needed and the right people appointed to set it up and run the "takeover". It needs people with the knowledge and the connections to bring in any backers that might be out there. I have neither enough knowledge or any connections but would certainly attend a public meeting and if there happened to be anything that I could do to help I would gladly do it.

I doubt that the club is officially for sale so we would have to find a way of ousting the current owner. Are there any legal eagles out there who would come to a meeting and advise us on this for free?

I notice that the tone of the posts has changed slightly and now refers to "The Board" when for some time CH has been referred to as the sole owner. Is he the sole owner or are others involved?

It is said that CH earns a significant amount for his role at the club. I have no idea whether this is correct or not but if it is then he is unlikely to walk away unless he gets a large amount of money for the club. Would you agree with that? None of us would give up our income voluntarily would we?

On a personal level I think it is time for a complete clearout. We do not want to carry any baggage with us if this venture is to succeed. It seems to me that a lot of people are put off by CH so partnership investment, whereby he retains some position at the club is, in my view, out of the question. One of the main things needed is to interact very closely with the fans and have a clear path to keeping everyone informed and involved. CH does nothing to make any of this work for the club. I get the feeling that if he did he would get more people on his side, but what do I know?

I really do wish that there was someone out there who could set the ball rolling because I think this could happen!



#68 thecrab

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 01:52 PM

Feel exactly the same ex scrum half.
The only people I think could front this would be RO but I'm not sure they would want to.

#69 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 02:57 PM

The Bears directors did not include the two current directors.

I did not say they were directors of the Bears.

 

I said did  the four directors upon on reforming the club ( being Chris Hamilton, Sean Whitehead, Melvyn Lord and Stuart Hardaker ) did not pay off the Bears debts.

 

None of the directors of the Bears were involved in reforming the club.

 

The main problem is the debts.

 

As I said previously they are the responsibility of the two present directors , or shareholders of the club  CH and SW.

 

 

That information is known by them and the clubs accountants.

 

There is no transparency in regard to the club. Its like a secret society owned, in the main by one man and run by one man.

 

If the club are not prepared to be more open and open up the books for potential investors to analyse the situation in regard to the finances how do they expect any support in that direction.

 

We had a chance with BQ being on board but even he did not get to see the books.

 

How have the debts been accumulated

 

Who is owed the money.

 

Is it HMRC?.  Is it to the players?.  Are they trade debts.?  Is it even to the Council.? Is it to the bank.?

 

Or is it to the directors.

 

If it is to the Directors then that in itself is not a big problem for the club to continue in the present mode.

 

If it is to the bank then again as long as the bank is prepared to give its support then it can continue to trade.

 

If there is a debt to the council then it is given on behalf of all council tax payers so we should know about it.

 

Trade debts  can be from previous years or the current  financial year

 

However, if it is any one or both of the first two ,HMRC or the players the position is more serious.

 

On a final note.

 

How can a company with debts of around £200,000 with little assets to support those debts be in a solvent situation.?

 

Are they not Bankrupt.?

 

There lies the main problem with the present situation.

 

No one apart from the directors know.

 

The management expect the supporters to just follow and support the club blindly, asking no questions , and not giving any information out apart from the information regarding the match itself.



#70 eclecticsheep

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 04:07 PM

Thats it in a nutshell Harry.

Every angle covered

Vexing situation

I can only arrive at one very sad conclusion myself!

Its untouchable....not even with a bargepole, who could blame Rugby Oldham for staying well clear...or flash flan(who is an astute businessman himself).

the albatross is well and truly lashed on to the neck of ORLFC.

Maybe Rimmer might be chivvied to pop down and see if adequate progress has been made on any projection made regarding minimum standards ( and I presume this has to be on a timescale)if enough of us complain to the RFL?

My thinking being that perhaps he would be a proper person to access the books to assess why there has been negligible ground development progress at Whitebank?

Clutching at straws perhaps?

#71 herbie

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 05:28 PM

What about some kind of petition that states the rugby people of Oldham have no confidence in Hamilton to take OUR club forward?
This could generate publicity and maybe put the club and how it is run under the spotlight.

#72 oldham13

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:54 PM

I do not wish to sound dismissive Herbie, you make a valid point but

 

A petition to whom?

 

The club is a business and confidence or no confidence in the current board with no backers coming forward the rugby people of the town are voting with their feet.

 

In the interest of balance the current board could wind the club up and end Oldham RLFC forever if they felt the business is not viable but they are continuing to put a team on the field.

 

I agree with vast majority of comments but if people are serious we need to take this project by the scruff of the neck and move it forward.

 

Public Meeting is needed!

 

At the end of the day for a buy out to happen people need to stand up and commit to the membership scheme.

 

I am willing to meet the officials of FC united to discuss how they set up the club / business but I need the reassurance of the rugby people of Oldham before putting the wheels in motion


Edited by oldham13, 08 May 2013 - 06:55 PM.

We Are Oldham Roughyeds


#73 herbie

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

Maybe the petition would give a good idea of how many people would back a change.
I would love to see a supporters led buy out bid with the help of well respected Rugby League figures in the town.

#74 oldham13

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:38 AM

I agree Herbie, I would like to see the same, it can happen if the supporters are willing to support it financially !


We Are Oldham Roughyeds


#75 roughyed34

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

Well where to start? I actually agree that a supporters led group could be good for Oldham but why all the interest in running the club down all the time? I know fact that a lot of people commenting on this dont even go to the Rugby anymore, thats sad. You should get behind the TEAM who wear our colours with pride, no matter what you think of the way the club is being run. It would be nice if the anti hamilton brigade could support the lads who are trying to get us out of this division. You negative folk might get some credit instead of whining about CH, Whitebank etc if you actually went to matches!! Supporting a team is for life and personally i dont want nothing to do with back biting and negativity, the club would get better crowds and have a bit more money for ground improvements etc if you got off your a***s and went to the games. Its a two way street. See you at Hemel on Sunday, oh sorry i forgot you will all be gardening or knitting or something.

Taff



#76 tub

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:49 AM

Re the £200k owed , I guess some of its creditors but the majority of it maybe director loans ?   CH is going to want far more money than anyone is prepard to pay.

 

A  solution is to form a new club like FC United or AFC Wimbeldon and work our way back up the divisions( which wouldn't take long !) , fans would be attracted to a fans led 'true' ORLFC and within a few seasons ORLFC 1997 Ltd would be starved of a fan base and collapse. RO should be supportive as the ethos of the new club would be in line with its aims

 

Geoff Cooke from RO said this was not possible ?  but if it was done through promotion why not ?

 

 

A lot cheaper and quicker ........... we could even have Whitebank when he moves out :-)  


Edited by tub, 10 May 2013 - 12:06 PM.


#77 geoffcooke

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

Re the £200k owed , I guess some of its creditors but the majority of it maybe director loans ?   CH is going to want far more money than anyone is prepard to pay.

 

A  solution is to form a new club like FC United or AFC Wimbeldon and work our way back up the divisions( which wouldn't take long !) , fans would be attracted to a fans led 'true' ORLFC and within a few seasons ORLFC 1997 Ltd would be starved of a fan base and collapse. RO should be supportive as the ethos of the new club would be in line with its aims

 

Geoff Cooke from RO said this was not possible ?  but if it was done through promotion why not ?

 

 

A lot cheaper and quicker ........... we could even have Whitebank when he moves out :-)  

The RFL are focussed on expansion teams. Why would they want to admit a second professional team in Oldham?

Why would CH vacate Whitebank?

Why would Oldham Council assign the lease on Whitebank to anyone else?

 

Just trying to be realistic.



#78 tub

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:43 PM

Yes , all said with a bit of 'tongue in cheek'  but in response to your points ,  a successful  'TRUE'  fans run Oldham Rugby League Club would make ORLFC 1997 Ltd defunct, so there would be no club in the town and no one at Whitebank , ORLFC 1997 Ltd could not exist with none or a token  50 fans ! ..... it would have to fold

 

The RFL would readily accept a well supported team into the lower leagues



#79 HARRYRUBY

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:39 PM

When the club was reformed in 1997 did not the directors including CH say they would hold regular meetings with the fans and keep the fans informed of progress.

 

The silence since as been far from golden.

 

What is needed for professional rugby in Oldham to have a future is.

 

To have a new club with new directors.

 

To play at the rebuilt Boundary Park with a good playing service and better facilities. ( Whitebank is not fit for purpose for any ambitious club ).

 

Start with no debts ( let the present directors and shareholders sort the current debts out)

 

Rugby Oldham was not established to pay off the debts of the current pro club and as a member, and I am sure many more members would agree they should not do so.

 

Rugby Oldham do a lot of good work within the amateur game in Oldham. Tie it to the pro club in any form and it would be to its detriment.

 

For the supporters to buy the club of CH and SW and pay the debts in my opinion is a non starter.

 

Until the management are open and disclose the true situation they cannot expect any serious assistance.

 

As long as CH is getting an alleged, decent salary from the Rugby League he will continue along his well trod merry path.



#80 BOLTON ROUGHYED

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:41 PM

Well where to start? I actually agree that a supporters led group could be good for Oldham but why all the interest in running the club down all the time? I know fact that a lot of people commenting on this dont even go to the Rugby anymore, thats sad. You should get behind the TEAM who wear our colours with pride, no matter what you think of the way the club is being run. It would be nice if the anti hamilton brigade could support the lads who are trying to get us out of this division. You negative folk might get some credit instead of whining about CH, Whitebank etc if you actually went to matches!! Supporting a team is for life and personally i dont want nothing to do with back biting and negativity, the club would get better crowds and have a bit more money for ground improvements etc if you got off your a***s and went to the games. Its a two way street. See you at Hemel on Sunday, oh sorry i forgot you will all be gardening or knitting or something.

Taff

I think you are missing the point here. The point and the widely held view on the club.

I've stuck with this club through thick and thin, even tho' I believe the running of it is shambolic. I've kept putting my hand in my pocket in the hope that we can rise out of this division, at least to championship level. Sadly, like many others, I now believe that this club is simply our leaders cash cow/pension fund. It's not a fund that I feel able or willing to contribute to any more. 

If I felt like the owner engaged the fans in any meaningful dialogue, with a view to driving the club forward, I would have some sympathy.

The sad fact of the matter is that we are treated like mushrooms. In fact, we aren't even treated that well because no one even bothers to feed us s**t!!!

It is because I support the club that I feel the only way it will ever be able to move forward is with a change of ownership. It might be difficult but I'm willing to give it a try because quite frankly, I just don't enjoy going any more.






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