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Super League 2 leagues of 12


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#21 Gruff

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

Just to clarify on what is being proposed.

 

The idea, as far as I understand it, is that the two bottom teams will be relegated from Super League at the end of 2014, regardless of which teams they will be. There could even be three teams relegated if the clubs decide they want Toulouse in the competition in 2015 with a TV deal possibly on the table from BeIn Sport.

 

There will then be two divisions of 12 each, which will play each other once (eleven games) in the first half of the season.

 

In the second half of the season, those clubs will split into three divisions of eight teams, depending on finishing places in the first half of the season. The bottom four Super League clubs will be in with the top four Championship clubs (which may include the two SL clubs relegated the previous season). Those teams will play each other at home and away (14 games) in the second half of the season.

 

The top four clubs in the second tier, at the end of that season, will then return to Super League for 2016.

I like it - seems to tick all the boxes.

 

 - Something for all clubs to play for throughout the season.

 - Gives clubs the opportunity for promotion and relegation each year.

 - Opportunity for multiple TV packages.

 - Second half of season gives an elite league for the shield, a secondary league for promotion and relegation and a plate, and a tertiary league for developing teams to win the bowl.



#22 hindle xiii

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

It looks like some kind of SPL hand-me-down.


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#23 Theboyem

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:10 AM

The Labour Party manifesto for the 1983 general election was described as the longest suicide note in history, and I would compare this proposal to that.
 
It's about Rugby League losing its belief in itself, and not recognising that shuffling the cards makes that all too obvious.
 
It isn't addressing the real issues that affect the game.
 
It's unnecessary and will do great damage.

I agree entirely. There is a phrase if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well I think its fair to say that whilst RL in this country isn't exactly broken it isn't exactly running as well as it should either and is due a service. But this would be akin to scrapping your car because it needs a couple of new tyres and an oil change. And then going out and buying a banger to replace it. No, no and thrice no.

#24 Bulliac

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

Why would Sky money be paid across two divisions?

 

Div "2 is likely to be the current Championship division who can't afford to go full time, and still wouldn't be able to even with half the Sky money, so why would Sky, who have shown no interest whatever [their loss] in showing that,  give money to be paid those clubs?


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#25 nadera78

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

Sounds ludicrous to me.

 

This is a sport that knows it doesn't have the (playing and financial) resources for two divisions but is desperately trying to please the smaller clubs. The fact is, even if we include two French teams, we only have the resources for a 12 team competition. This is just another way of avoiding the real issues confronting the game.


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#26 hindle xiii

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

Say what?!?!?!?!

 

That sounds almost as complicated to explain as the current 8 team play offs. And as pointless.

I really hope they keep the Top-8 play-offs as well!

 

It'll make me chuckle.


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#27 Dave T

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

Just to clarify on what is being proposed.

 

The idea, as far as I understand it, is that the two bottom teams will be relegated from Super League at the end of 2014, regardless of which teams they will be. There could even be three teams relegated if the clubs decide they want Toulouse in the competition in 2015 with a TV deal possibly on the table from BeIn Sport.

 

There will then be two divisions of 12 each, which will play each other once (eleven games) in the first half of the season.

 

In the second half of the season, those clubs will split into three divisions of eight teams, depending on finishing places in the first half of the season. The bottom four Super League clubs will be in with the top four Championship clubs (which may include the two SL clubs relegated the previous season). Those teams will play each other at home and away (14 games) in the second half of the season.

 

The top four clubs in the second tier, at the end of that season, will then return to Super League for 2016.

Hmm, if we dig back a few months, that's not far off what i proposed. 

 

I think I did two tens though splitting into 6/6/8



#28 Larry the Leit

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

Just to clarify on what is being proposed.

 

The idea, as far as I understand it, is that the two bottom teams will be relegated from Super League at the end of 2014, regardless of which teams they will be. There could even be three teams relegated if the clubs decide they want Toulouse in the competition in 2015 with a TV deal possibly on the table from BeIn Sport.

 

There will then be two divisions of 12 each, which will play each other once (eleven games) in the first half of the season.

 

In the second half of the season, those clubs will split into three divisions of eight teams, depending on finishing places in the first half of the season. The bottom four Super League clubs will be in with the top four Championship clubs (which may include the two SL clubs relegated the previous season). Those teams will play each other at home and away (14 games) in the second half of the season.

 

The top four clubs in the second tier, at the end of that season, will then return to Super League for 2016.

 

 

 

It's got to be a bluff, and opening gambit with the eventual end-game being something less extreme, but something that would be rejected if it were proposed first up.  That way the ones yielding the power can be seen as having negotiated fairly and settled on a solution that the other clubs feel compelled to support.

 

I like 14, and I like P&R.  What I would like is for Gary Hetherington and his pals to keep their greedy mitts off the structure of the sport.  Sport is a business, and it's not just about the top few clubs making as much money as possible, it's about all clubs being given a structure where they can all build towards profitability.  Look at the strides that the likes of Featherstone and Wakefield have made in the last couple of years, let's not kick them in the teeth again.

 

If that means we have a structure that allows growth and long term stability and profitability for all in the longterm then lets work at that, what we shouldn't be chasing is a structure which is all about maximising profits for the few.


Edited by Larry the Leit, 03 May 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#29 Larry the Leit

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:20 AM

double post 


Edited by Larry the Leit, 03 May 2013 - 10:20 AM.


#30 Lounge Room Lizard

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

Not a fan at all of this and the leadership at the top just gets worse. Very complicated and trying to please everybody while the problems are just left to get worse. The standards on and off the pitch get watered down each year. And where are the 24 clubs?

 

I would rather the RFL just said look a Licence for SL as from 2015 on a 3 year deal cost X amount. A bond of half a million is required. Clubs must run a reserve grade and U20 and U18s team and there must be certain other minimum standards met by ALL clubs. A club failing to meet such standards faces losing some of its bond. Any club going under would not receive its 1 million bond and that money would be used to pay debtors and be used to help develop the Grassroots level. A similar thing to operate at Championship level with clubs forced to commit and meet certain standards but obviously not have to pay such a big amount. I dont know if thats practical, but seems better than what is currently being planned



#31 Southstander13

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

I hope this isnt the actual structure, it would mean that those in the top 8 will play each other 3 times in the regular season and then possibly another couple of times in play-offs, not to mention the cup too.

 

How would the Salary Cap work? 

 

I can see where they are coming from, and it would lead to a very fluid movement between the divisions. Every game would without doubt mean something too!! Just might be overkill with repeat fixtures.



#32 hindle xiii

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:22 AM

Hmm, if we dig back a few months, that's not far off what i proposed. 

 

I think I did two tens though splitting into 6/6/8

Are you not concerned about playing the same teams 3, possibly 4, 5 times a season? That includes any unforseen play-off structure and Cup games.


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#33 Southstander13

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

Gruff, on 03 May 2013 - 11:06, said:
I like it - seems to tick all the boxes.

- Something for all clubs to play for throughout the season.
- Gives clubs the opportunity for promotion and relegation each year.
- Opportunity for multiple TV packages.
- Second half of season gives an elite league for the shield, a secondary league for promotion and relegation and a plate, and a tertiary league for developing teams to win the bowl.


Im actually warming to the idea after intially thinking its ludicrous! You make some good points.

Just worry about repeat fixtures, dont want to play the same teams 4/5 times a year.

Edited by Southstander13, 03 May 2013 - 10:27 AM.


#34 The Daddy_merged

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:26 AM

If this proposal does go through this will set Rugby League back many years. It smacks of levelling the sport down to the lowest common denominator, this format does not create stability or allow clubs to build or develop players. Although licensing has its faults the main reasons why it was brought in were absolutely correct, ie, to develop clubs etc

 

I can only see the NRL moving further forward and creating an even bigger gap, instead of levelling up and creating more elite competition ie, Internationals etc and expanding into new areas the sport is levelling down to clubs which are barely able to support professionalism. 



#35 matt newsholme

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:30 AM

Can't see how system Martyn's explained is going to help with finances. Means top clubs play each other three times so more big home gates. Potentially a team in sl1 could get all top teams away from home in first half of season, thus no big gates, then have to play in middle eight division home and away so more lower gates. Would seem this system will just widen financial gulf between teams even more.

And how's the table determined at end of season? Are all results recombined and its based on wins/losses like now or is the top eight automatically the first eight positions even though a team in middle division may have won more games than a bottom end top eight team?

Needs more explaining how it would work.

Edited by matt newsholme, 03 May 2013 - 10:33 AM.


#36 Dave T

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:31 AM

The benefits I see of it (if the funding is done right) is that IMHO it gives a realistic opportunity for clubs to grow into strong SL clubs.

 

It is difficult for somebody like Toulouse or Sheffield to use the Championship as a test-bed, whereas I think the SL2 could be a more realistic starting point for clubs with ambition.



#37 Terry Mullaney

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

Sounds good to me. The game has become stale and crowds are dwindling at many SL and almost all Championship clubs, so what's a better alternative to this? Trying to please everybody is absolutely the way to go in order to reinvigorate our struggling sport. Bring it on for me.
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#38 nadera78

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:42 AM

Sounds good to me. The game has become stale and crowds are dwindling at many SL and almost all Championship clubs, so what's a better alternative to this? Trying to please everybody is absolutely the way to go in order to reinvigorate our struggling sport. Bring it on for me.

Trying to please everybody is going to cause a hell of a mess for our game. Why are people trying to recreate the sporting landscape of the 19th Century?

 

At the elite level we have the players for 12 teams, we have the finances for 12 teams, we have the spectator numbers for 12 teams, we have the corporate support for 12 teams, we have the media interest for 12 teams. So, naturally, we should create a structure where we attempt to involve 24 teams!

 

I honestly see myself as a fan of the game, rather than one particular club, and I can't see anything positive coming from this. We should be focusing our limited resources on creating a genuinely elite competition and use that to create further resources. Spreading what little we've got on 24 clubs is nothing short of ludicrous. 


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#39 Saintslass

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:43 AM

I like it - seems to tick all the boxes.

 

 - Something for all clubs to play for throughout the season.

 - Gives clubs the opportunity for promotion and relegation each year.

 - Opportunity for multiple TV packages.

 - Second half of season gives an elite league for the shield, a secondary league for promotion and relegation and a plate, and a tertiary league for developing teams to win the bowl.

I like it too.  My only concern would be repeat fixtures.  Presumably there would be something like a top five play off also because to have anymore than that in an eight team final league would be silly.



#40 Gruff

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

The system would give 5 TV packages to sell, all offering different things

 

Package 1 - Top 12 for first half of the season

Package 2 - Bottom 12 for first half of the season

Package 3 - Elite League - for some the most exciting league

Package 4 - Promotion/Relegation League

Package 5 - Bottom league - only pride etc... to play for - apparently no different to the championship now

 

Those who just want to watch the best players thrash it out week in week out will go for packages 1 and 3

Those who want to see promotion/relegation battles will have packages 1 or 2 (depending on where their team starts) and 4 

Those who just want to see their team play matches will have  1 or 2 then 5.

 

This system will also help reduce the gap in the top teams and lower teams.  if this was implemented now then the likes of Salford/London would have played the big boys, then onto the larger championship teams like Halifax.  It gives the likes of Halifax the opportunity to play top tier teams 8 times in a season, with the chance of playing them all the year after.

 

I don't see many negatives - only the fact that the top league would play each other three times over a season - but this would be extra fixtures against the top teams, not against cannon fodder.






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