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New League Structure Being Proposed


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#21 grumpyoldram

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:38 AM

Although the gulf in class between the have's and have nots in Super League isnt currently reflected in the league table (how the heck Widnes have 11pts is beyond me) , the Championship is certainly a lot more clear cut.

 

Sitting 6th in the league, we are 12pts adrift of 5th position and yet only 4pts clear of the bottom spot in the league.

 

The problem is, if Super League get their way and split into 2 divisions, the teams that will be incorporated into SL2 will surely drain the last drops of income from the Championship, Batley being the obvious winners in this scenario, Kev Nicholls master plan is finally coming to fruition muahahahaha.

 

I can see some positives here. With fev, leigh, fax, eagles and the dogs gone, we will be a few steps nearer to our ambition of being the best team outside superleague. What's not to like. :rolleyes:



#22 Ackroman

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:39 PM

With so few speccies, having to fund that level of relative success will be like walking a tightrope.

#23 Blind side johnny

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

I want to put something witty but I can't actually argue. Our crowds are awful, and it must be demoralising for the board and players alike, especially after a few relatively successful seasons. Will they improve if the structure is changed...hopefully...but I sadly wouldn't put any money on it.

Just glad we aren't in your position or we could be looking at 300 against Gateshead next year;).

 

 

I remember when we last played with the big boys in the top league (pre SL days). We were rubbish and got hammered almost every match. Consequently our attendances, which were comfortably in four figures, fell rather than increased culminating in only 1700 watching us play Leeds at Crown Flatt. Hence playing in the top division doesn't necessarily generate better support.


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#24 Nick07

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

I remember when we last played with the big boys in the top league (pre SL days). We were rubbish and got hammered almost every match. Consequently our attendances, which were comfortably in four figures, fell rather than increased culminating in only 1700 watching us play Leeds at Crown Flatt. Hence playing in the top division doesn't necessarily generate better support.


I would agree BSJ. Even when we were on the cusp of the top division in the mid 90's the crowds were probably only around the 2k mark, unless it was a derby game.

Not sure what can be done to stop the apathy amongst fans to be honest. Interest levels seems disappointing low, despite the product on show being quite decent at the moment.

#25 Eddie_Rombo

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:31 PM

I just knew it was too good to last Eddie and doubt I will be around in the distant future when you next have a sensible statement to make but Hey ho at least I can say I was there a bit like all oldies on the rams forum who are 50 plus and remember the lasttime dewsbury won somthing. Sadly Eddie you will never experiance it in your lifetime :)

 

Gloat all you want now Batley are on the up. Your club are struggling to get people through the gates when your playing well. I wonder how many will bother to turn up once you start losing again. 

And yes I've been there when Dewsbury have won cups/leagues and have beaten better Batley teams than the one you have now.  :)



#26 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

It's not the product on show that's the problem, it's the idiots that are running the game.

 

 

According to the supporters way back to the 1950's (CF?) the RFL has always been run by idiots. It's always been a lazy conclusion to reach for a complex problem.

 

FWIW the RFU is also run by idiots but their gates have increased substantially over the years. Someone please explain that, logically if possible.


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#27 Hugh Jarce

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

In a nutshell "Marketing!"

"Life's tough.......It's even tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne


#28 grumpyoldram

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

In a nutshell "Marketing!"

 

They also don't tinker with the rules every season, or the structure and they still have the excitement of relegation and promotion so there is nearly always something to play for, There is also added interest in that there are competitions involving British, Irish and French teams during the season so that supporters aren't lumbered with seeing the same teams week in week out. Basically they are benefitting from being a national sport rather than the parochial one that RL is always likely to be. 



#29 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:52 AM

They also don't tinker with the rules every season, or the structure and they still have the excitement of relegation and promotion so there is nearly always something to play for, There is also added interest in that there are competitions involving British, Irish and French teams during the season so that supporters aren't lumbered with seeing the same teams week in week out. Basically they are benefitting from being a national sport rather than the parochial one that RL is always likely to be. 

 

 

Not to mention friends in high places!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And fifth columnists. ;)

 

.


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#30 grumpyoldram

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:45 PM

Not to mention friends in high places!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And fifth columnists. ;)

 

.

 

And more importantly - credible newspaper columnists :lol: 



#31 Gav Wilson

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:55 PM

I have a potential suggestion. I’m going to throw it out there. If you like it, great! If you don’t then just throw it straight back…

 

What do you reckon?

 

:)


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#32 Blind side johnny

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:23 PM

I have a potential suggestion. I’m going to throw it out there. If you like it, great! If you don’t then just throw it straight back…

 

What do you reckon?

 

:)

 

 

A sensible approach but, for me, an unworkable conclusion. A Championship season starting two months earlier would give us poor souls the worst of both worlds. We'd get the freeezing weather in January and february and miss out on any chance of the good weather enjoyed by SL later in the year. All of this would be to solve the problems of one or two teams that might have a hope of promotion to SL.

 

Let's have something that tackles the issue of clubs overspending to stay in/get into SL and creates a viable competition for those of us that will always lie below such dizzy heights.

 

.


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#33 YOUNG UN

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:53 PM

I just knew it was too good to last Eddie and doubt I will be around in the distant future when you next have a sensible statement to make but Hey ho at least I can say I was there a bit like all oldies on the rams forum who are 50 plus and remember the lasttime dewsbury won somthing. Sadly Eddie you will never experiance it in your lifetime :)

I'm only 14 and I have seen my team the Rams win at least 4 major trophies within that time. I think Batley have won one as well. My dad, who is 89 agrees, "Yes I do remember Batley winning something once" :shout:  


Edited by YOUNG UN, 15 May 2013 - 06:59 PM.


#34 Bi11

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:41 PM

I think that the gap between full time SL and part time Championship is probably too large for automatic promotion and relegation. Many a year would see a stronger team come down than the one going up.  Perhaps the side at the bottom of SL should have to re apply to be in SL next season, and the team at the top of the Championship table and the Championship winners be also allowed to apply.  The infrastructure of the clubs could be compared; with perhaps a bias towards the existing SL club, but also if a team had been towards the bottom of SL or very successful in the Championship for a number of consecutive years this could be taken into account.  Merit points could be allocated to the candidates based on pre set criteria, with a small team from the RL to make the final decision.

 

A scheme like this would give more stability than automatic promotion/relegation whilst allowing ambitious clubs to move forward.  I would also suggest that any Championship winning/table topping candidate that decided not to apply for SL should be given a little extra prize money instead.

 

I trust that that is not too complicated.



#35 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:16 AM

I think that the gap between full time SL and part time Championship is probably too large for automatic promotion and relegation. Many a year would see a stronger team come down than the one going up.  Perhaps the side at the bottom of SL should have to re apply to be in SL next season, and the team at the top of the Championship table and the Championship winners be also allowed to apply.  The infrastructure of the clubs could be compared; with perhaps a bias towards the existing SL club, but also if a team had been towards the bottom of SL or very successful in the Championship for a number of consecutive years this could be taken into account.  Merit points could be allocated to the candidates based on pre set criteria, with a small team from the RL to make the final decision.

 

A scheme like this would give more stability than automatic promotion/relegation whilst allowing ambitious clubs to move forward.  I would also suggest that any Championship winning/table topping candidate that decided not to apply for SL should be given a little extra prize money instead.

 

I trust that that is not too complicated.

 

 

That's starting to sound lime a franchise though, isn't it Bi11?

 

Bridging this gap is, in my opinion, virtually unsurmountable at present. I reckon that the new plans are based upon a desire to reduce SL to 12 teams and how to get the rest of the system to fit into that, but maybe I'm just being cynical.

 

.


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#36 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 08:17 AM

They also don't tinker with the rules every season, or the structure and they still have the excitement of relegation and promotion so there is nearly always something to play for, There is also added interest in that there are competitions involving British, Irish and French teams during the season so that supporters aren't lumbered with seeing the same teams week in week out. Basically they are benefitting from being a national sport rather than the parochial one that RL is always likely to be. 

 

Bedford?


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#37 grumpyoldram

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

I have a potential suggestion. I’m going to throw it out there. If you like it, great! If you don’t then just throw it straight back…

 

What do you reckon?

 

:)

 

Call me selfish, but I would prefer it if the season kicked off in April and finished in December anyway - in other words summer rugby. We miss out on three of the best playing/watching months as it stands, instead playing in temperatures and on bone hard pitches that invite injury and result in decimated squads before April is out. I'm not sure that extra preparation time given by your idea, would have made much difference in the days when P and R operated. To me the problem was that newly promoted teams weren't given the funding to compete - maybe those teams should have been given the parachute payments that ensured relegated sides went straight back up. I would suggest that any future form of P and R would only involve clubs with the stability and financial clout to compete, with maybe the RFL relaxing the salary cap for newly promoted teams.



#38 grumpyoldram

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

Bedford?

 

Bedford?

 

The fact that Bedford's ground doesn't meet the criteria is surely the fault of the club, not the system - the opportunity for promotion was there. I mean WE wouldn't want clubs in SL with grounds that were not up to scratch would we ? Oh ..... hang on.  ;)  



#39 Blind side johnny

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

Call me selfish, but I would prefer it if the season kicked off in April and finished in December anyway - in other words summer rugby. We miss out on three of the best playing/watching months as it stands, instead playing in temperatures and on bone hard pitches that invite injury and result in decimated squads before April is out. I'm not sure that extra preparation time given by your idea, would have made much difference in the days when P and R operated. To me the problem was that newly promoted teams weren't given the funding to compete - maybe those teams should have been given the parachute payments that ensured relegated sides went straight back up. I would suggest that any future form of P and R would only involve clubs with the stability and financial clout to compete, with maybe the RFL relaxing the salary cap for newly promoted teams.

 

 

Agree, but where would these newly promoted clubs get the money from in the first instance?

 

Not one of the present Championship clubs would be able to generate sufficient income from their own resources, so it's back to sugar daddies again and Barrow is an example of how well that works.


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#40 grumpyoldram

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:24 PM

Agree, but where would these newly promoted clubs get the money from in the first instance?

 

Not one of the present Championship clubs would be able to generate sufficient income from their own resources, so it's back to sugar daddies again and Barrow is an example of how well that works.

 

Maybe I'm being simplistic, but, having ascertained that the club to be promoted satisfies ground criteria and has a sound business plan (plus whatever else the RL throw up to try and ensure the status quo), then that club should be given the money previously allocated to the relegated club, but it's progress should be monitored to ensure it lives within it's means for a couple of seasons. Won't happen of course - turkeys don't vote for Christmas.






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