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Ed Miliband


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#361 archibald

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

Oh Hell, he wants to "strengthen the minimum wage under a one nation labour". Yet can't say what that even means.



#362 Wolford6

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

He was trying to present himself as a strong dynamic autocratic leader this morning on the Andrew Marr Show ... 'I lead the Labour Party / That's how I run the Party'

 

He's too stupid to realise that's precisely why people won't vote for him or it.

 

He has no track record and always comes across as talking down to people. I bet the only proper work he's ever done was Bob-a-Job Week in the cubs.

 

I imagine him as having progressed from school swot through university debating  society, policy wonker, party hack to scheming careerist. How he ended up Leader says more about the Labour Party than about him.

 

Labour supporters want a party run by a consensus-based leadership team.


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#363 JohnM

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:49 AM

The thing is though that the private sector is flexible enough that this hasn't caused serious hardship except in a few limited instances.  The hardship came in when it was extended to state sector housing where there's no flexibility at all.  These are typically the poorest people in the UK, excepting homeless people, and they rarely have any other options in terms of housing.

 

It doesn't take excessive intelligence to see that if you remove money from someone on basic benefits only yet expect him to still pay the same outgoings then something will have to give.  The local councils don't even have the discretion to say "we have nowhere smaller to move you and we know you've no other options so we'll excuse you from the benefit cut".

 

Then there's the news today that there's going to be an average 8% rise in gas prices this winter on the back of what seems like many years of well above inflation price rises.  It might be a cold winter for some.

 

 

The thing is though that the private sector is flexible enough that this hasn't caused serious hardship except in a few limited instances

 

This statement is  plain wrong.

 

However, it doe snot atke any intrelligence to see tha there IS flexibility in the public sector. It is just that they are unwilling, unable and incapable of exercising it,  and there has been no pressure and no incentive to do anything about it.The UK housing crisis reached epidemic proportions under the last Govt and Miliband's cheap pre-conference electoral stunt, designed to stave off criticism by conference groupies of his lack of..well, everything really. 

 

 

"The local councils don't even have the discretion to say "we have nowhere smaller to move you and we know you've no other options so we'll excuse you from the benefit cut".  

 

Its their fault that they they have not run their social  housing system properly. They've had long enough to sort it out and now, when hit by the realities of life, they blame the govt. 



#364 JohnM

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:57 AM

He was trying to present himself as a strong dynamic autocratic leader this morning on the Andrew Marr Show ... 'I lead the Labour Party / That's how I run the Party'

 

He's too stupid to realise that's precisely why people won't vote for him or it.

 

He has no track record and always comes across as talking down to people. I bet the only proper work he's ever done was Bob-a-Job Week in the cubs.

 

I imagine him as having progressed from school swot through university debating  society, policy wonker, party hack to scheming careerist. How he ended up Leader says more about the Labour Party than about him.

 

Labour supporters want a party run by a consensus-based leadership team.

 

 

and his sums don't add up..

 

and he has no idea how any of this will work in practice.

 

He does know, though, because the facts are there, that having a 50% tax rate ( well, 60% in you include the jobs tax)  on incomes of over £150k reduced the tax take, so to bring it back will give him less money with which to buy votes.

 

Anyway, everything is going to be alright!  ( that's code for if Labour gets in, we're all ######ed ) Red Miliband has said he is "bringing back socialism" to Britain ...

 

see http://www.telegraph...to-Britain.html

 

So as in socialist France, we can look forward to 12 % unemployment and huge tax rises just for starters. 



#365 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:10 PM

The 'bedroom tax' was the wrong solution to a real problem. 


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#366 fieldofclothofgold

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

Well done Labour/Ed for finally saying they'd scrap the bedroom tax...  A bit late but at least they got there eventually.

You would have thought it was a no brainer for a party called Labour


but you and I weve been through that and this is not our fate.
So let us so let us not talk falsely now.
The hour is getting late
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

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#367 JohnM

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

No brainer... a good nickname for ®ed Miliband.

 

More use of non-existent brains  on the aprrentice tax : http://www.theguardi...p-plan-unravels



#368 ckn

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:35 PM

Hmmm. I wonder where I've heard views like that before on the forum.

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#369 Derwent

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:11 AM

 

The 'bedroom tax' was the wrong solution to a real problem.


There is no such thing as a "bedroom tax". If anything it is an attempt to apply the HB rules fairly and consistently - rules which have always existed BTW but have been largely ignored by successive governments. Calling it a tax is emotive nonsense and is actually looking at it the wrong way around.

Couple 1 rent from the council and have a 3 bed house and get full HB. Couple 2 have exactly the same income from the same benefits but can't get a council home so rent privately - but they only get HB for a 1 bedroom property. Why should Couple 1 be entitled to more than Couple 2 simply because they've been in their home longer and rent from the council ?

Rather than a tax it is, in actual fact, a stopping of HB overpayments to tenants which they should never have been entitled to in the first place.

Workington Town. Then. Now. Always.


#370 JohnM

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

Correct. That's what I have been trying to say in my own cack-handed way.



#371 Steve May

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:38 AM

 

There is no such thing as a "bedroom tax". If anything it is an attempt to apply the HB rules fairly and consistently - rules which have always existed BTW but have been largely ignored by successive governments. Calling it a tax is emotive nonsense and is actually looking at it the wrong way around.

Couple 1 rent from the council and have a 3 bed house and get full HB. Couple 2 have exactly the same income from the same benefits but can't get a council home so rent privately - but they only get HB for a 1 bedroom property. Why should Couple 1 be entitled to more than Couple 2 simply because they've been in their home longer and rent from the council ?

Rather than a tax it is, in actual fact, a stopping of HB overpayments to tenants which they should never have been entitled to in the first place.

 

It's one of those things that sound like a good idea on a flipchart when some bloke in a suit thinks it up.   When it gets implemented, it turns out to be utterly unworkable.

 

Happens all the time.   I should bloody know - I've been that bloke in a suit a couple of times!

 

The first trick is to spot the seemingly sensible, but in practice unworkable, idea as early as possible and not do it.  

 

If you miss that, then the bigger (and far more difficult) trick is to see the effects on the ground and then put a stop to it.   It's all too easy to push on with something that's not working under the misguided belief that "If we get through these teething troubles" it will somehow come good.  Again, been there done that.


That's me.  I'm done.


#372 JohnM

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:45 AM

"I have felt for some time now that the 'New UKIP' is not really right for me anymore perhaps than New Labour was right for the Dennis 'The beast of Bolsover' Skinner."  see http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-24222992

 

Make no mistake. I along with about 59,000,000 others, am not a fan of UKIP.  However, it will be interesting to see if  the departure of one of UKIP's most offensive members  (along with the purging of a number of UKIP local councillors will make the party more acceptable to the Conservative Party's golf-club tendency, despite Miliband making a pitch for the same constituency.



#373 ckn

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:31 AM

I had typed a long rant going through facts and figures about the bedroom tax but just can't be bothered.  If people can't see the bedroom tax, or "subsidy" clawback, as anything other than us moving towards the US benefits system where the unlucky and unfortunate get thrown into a skip then the persistent "benefits = scroungers" PR of the last three years by ministers and the media have done their job.  If you're unlucky enough to lose your job and have nothing else to go to then that's your fault for not working hard enough, get a job you slacker!

 

Just because you're on benefits does not make you a scrounger.  I know more than a few people who are in seriously bad mental states because they just cannot find work regardless of how hard they look.  I know one person who had to be admitted to hospital for severe and almost catatonic levels of depression after seeing the impacts on people of her working in the Jobcentre and having targets imposed on her to "sanction" people.  I know a few people in their 60s who cannot find work as they're fully discriminated against for daring to be a bit older then getting harassed by the Jobcentre staff about their efforts at interview yet the government is telling us that we'll probably have to work well into our 70s in the future.  It's not as black and white as the Daily Mail would have you believe.

 

In times of austerity, yes, we should look to cut where we can but it's immoral in the extreme to be punitively cutting benefits to the poorest people in Britain at the same time as commissioning things like HS2 or cutting the tax burden on large companies and higher rate taxpayers.

 

I say this quite happily as a higher rate taxpayer, I can afford to pay a bit more tax if it means not reducing those at the bottom of society to the point they have to go to food banks to survive, I'll just cut my luxuries a wee bit to fit or maybe save a wee bit less.  It seems to be more morally repugnant to the government to make someone like me reduce my unneeded luxuries than to cut benefits to those who are only beaten in poorness stakes by the homeless.

 

I think that'll do me on this subject, it just makes me see red and raise my blood pressure to unacceptable levels.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#374 archibald

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:46 AM

Better to have food banks, and other charities, than not.

 

One, more thing, how much should people get? We keep hearing from the morally outraged, Owen bloody Jones and the like, yet I've never heard any of them come up with a figure as to what cash people should get.


Edited by archibald, 24 September 2013 - 10:53 AM.


#375 ckn

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 10:53 AM

Back on the subject of Miliband.  As with Clegg, what's the point in listening to Miliband's speech today when the newspapers were given a copy in advance and I can read it in summary format without having to listen to his irritating voice?  Isn't it disrespectful to those who are attending the event to hear it second hand?


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#376 John Drake

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:01 AM

Better to have food banks, and other charities, than not.

 

One, more thing, how much should people get? We keep hearing from the morally outraged, Owen bloody Jones and the like, yet I've never heard any of them come up with a figure as to what cash people should get.

 

"Are there no workhouses...? "


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#377 archibald

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

"Are there no workhouses...? "

I'm sorry? Care to explain?



#378 John Drake

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:14 AM

I'm sorry? Care to explain?

 

It's a quote from Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol.

 

I am reminded of it reading certain comments in this thread.

 

Draw your own conclusions from that.


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#379 JohnM

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:20 AM

I had typed a long rant going through facts and figures about the bedroom tax but just can't be bothered.  If people can't see the bedroom tax, or "subsidy" clawback, as anything other than us moving towards the US benefits system where the unlucky and unfortunate get thrown into a skip then the persistent "benefits = scroungers" PR of the last three years by ministers and the media have done their job.  If you're unlucky enough to lose your job and have nothing else to go to then that's your fault for not working hard enough, get a job you slacker!

 

Just because you're on benefits does not make you a scrounger.  I know more than a few people who are in seriously bad mental states because they just cannot find work regardless of how hard they look.  I know one person who had to be admitted to hospital for severe and almost catatonic levels of depression after seeing the impacts on people of her working in the Jobcentre and having targets imposed on her to "sanction" people.  I know a few people in their 60s who cannot find work as they're fully discriminated against for daring to be a bit older then getting harassed by the Jobcentre staff about their efforts at interview yet the government is telling us that we'll probably have to work well into our 70s in the future.  It's not as black and white as the Daily Mail would have you believe.

 

In times of austerity, yes, we should look to cut where we can but it's immoral in the extreme to be punitively cutting benefits to the poorest people in Britain at the same time as commissioning things like HS2 or cutting the tax burden on large companies and higher rate taxpayers.

 

I say this quite happily as a higher rate taxpayer, I can afford to pay a bit more tax if it means not reducing those at the bottom of society to the point they have to go to food banks to survive, I'll just cut my luxuries a wee bit to fit or maybe save a wee bit less.  It seems to be more morally repugnant to the government to make someone like me reduce my unneeded luxuries than to cut benefits to those who are only beaten in poorness stakes by the homeless.

 

I think that'll do me on this subject, it just makes me see red and raise my blood pressure to unacceptable levels.

 

 

Of course, its nowhere near as simple as you portray, but then, you'll eventually see that. and  your youthful version of altruism will become tempered with experience, 

 

However, there is a way that you can help without paying more tax ..and as we know , increased taxes generally acts as a disincentive to individuals and companies, and anyway a proportion is lost in the associated public sector bureaucracy.

 

You can join the Big Society and donate ..well, let see, 10 % of your annual salary to an appropriate charity.  That way, not only can you take advantage of Gift Aid, you know that your contribution is being spent where you want, not on things like say HS2, Trident, or cutting  UBR for uncompetitive shopkeepers. 



#380 archibald

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 11:22 AM

It's a quote from Ebeneezer Scrooge in A Christmas Carol.

 

I am reminded of it reading certain comments in this thread.

 

Draw your own conclusions from that.

You think that people should just get a boat load of cash handed to them, and those that don't think that should just shut the Hell up?






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