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Bringing back promotion and relegation will set the sport back in this country several years

The return of boom and bust

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#81 statties

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:44 AM

what on earth makes some people think that the UK with a smaller player base, profile and income to the NRL can sustain 20+ top line professional clubs when the Aussies can only justify 15 themselves?



#82 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:48 AM

the first what?

of yourlist of two


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#83 Viking Warrior

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

Lobbys post is correct,What mustn't be allowed to happen is what you are suggesting will happen .

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.
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#84 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 10:50 AM

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.


They don't have to be dodgy many people quite legitimately qualify: it's the law and is far more important than the needs and desires of a game
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#85 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

 

Is it just me that smiles/laughs when when Widnes fans refer to Kevin Brown as a big signing?


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#86 kioli

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

I'm shocked anyone really believes that P&R will do anything other than harm RL in the UK. No surprises the only morons pushing that barrow are self-interested parties who cannot see past the end of their own nose.

Edited by kioli, 09 May 2013 - 12:35 PM.


#87 a.n Other

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:39 PM


I'm shocked anyone really believes that P&R will do anything other than harm RL in the UK. No surprises the only morons pushing that barrow are self-interested parties who cannot see past the end of their own nose.


And the ones against it are?

#88 keighley

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 12:49 PM

In 1977 how much time did the BBC give to the winners of the second division in RL, how much was in the newspapers, you seem to think a minor club in a minor sport winning a minor trophy was backpage news. It wasn't.

 

Our game has always been starve of publicity, it seemed like we had a lot of 'national' news in the past because the papers had Northern editions, those articles didn't appear all over the country, there is another myth that we had national recognition because the Daily Mirror gave us a lot of space, it gave us a lot of space in the NOrther edition, the other editions had nothing.

 

The death knell for RL as a headline backpage sport wasn't SL it was the closure of the local press offices which happened 10 years or more before.

 

You can have the most exciting P&R competition you want, it won't make one jot of difference to the amount of coverage.

 

Newspapers are yesterdays medium. The poster was mentioning the coverage of the soccer promotion/relegation clashes on Sky Sports.

 

Since Sky cover RL and relegated/promoted teams would be either leaving or joining their coverage, it would be in their interest to A) cover the p and r news for their viewers and B) hype up any relegation battles they might be covering on their slate of televised games.

 

The media landscape is vastly changed since 1977. I don't think that's a relevant comparison.



#89 keighley

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:02 PM

what on earth makes some people think that the UK with a smaller player base, profile and income to the NRL can sustain 20+ top line professional clubs when the Aussies can only justify 15 themselves?

 

I don;t know all that much about Aussie RL but I thought they had such a huge reservoir of junior talent that they could fill any number of teams. If the oft repeated mantra that the Aussies could field three different international teams any one of which could win the world cup then I am sure they could find the players for an expanded NRL. 

 

It seems to me that, despite the huge TV contracts, the existing clubs in the NRL, like the top SL clubs, are so greedy that they don't want to split the pie more ways and are thus resistant to to expansion even though they have persons wishing to bankroll new teams in various cities.

 

If they sit on their asses and fail to expand they will leave the new areas to the AFL and soccer, neither of which will spurn the opportunity. The NRL are making a serious mistake in not expanding in my opinion. I hope it dos't come back to haunt them.



#90 keighley

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:06 PM

And the ones against it are?

 

 Morons who can;t see beyond the end of their nose.



#91 Marauder

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 01:54 PM

I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation. 

 

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport. 

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads. 

 

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union. 

 

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

The competition has gone stagnant, even now we are looking at teams already having nothing to play for in the league & since 1996 we've only had 4 different winners who are now in 1st, 3rd, 5th & 8th places, something needs doing and I don't mind if they nick the idea BARLA has muted if/when they introduce a new National league which will is designed to allow teams to drift back to a traditional season.


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#92 Baaarrow

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation. 

 

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport. 

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads. 

 

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union. 

 

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

Completely disagree !!!!

For me and thousands of others who love the game, this is the best news for many many years !

The game is fast becoming stale, the Championships are dying with only 4 clubs capable of pulling in crowds of over a thousand, there is NOTHING to play for year in year out, licensing has failed in almost every aspect apart from a few nice stadiums and the rise of Widnes.

For me this change can't come quick enough and I am already looking forward to an exciting battle to avoid the bottom two of SL next year !!!!

BRING IT ON !!!!!!


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#93 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:24 PM

My guess is that the top clubs (financially) wouldn't mind this change as it will weaken the bottom third/half of Supeleague, and it will pave the way for a much reduced number of clubs in the competition in the future and an EVEN greater share of the Sky money for them.

 

My instinct remains that this is a bargaining tool, and opening gambit, and that something less silly will come along and be accepted that wouldn't have been accepted had it been leaked/suggested in the first instance.


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#94 Ackroman

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:25 PM

Failure is what happens when you can't win. It's when you can't sustain failure then you need to redress the system and you only redress the system if failures cannot be replaced.

 

It has never been the case that's its the same old clubs that go bust and re-group so what licencing has done is forced clubs who fail unsustainably to do so on an epic scale rather than seeing clubs demoted and replaced by a fresh perspective and demographic.

 

There are some very compelling arguments that fear of failure, followed by action to prop up failed enterprises actually devalues the system.

 

This is likely what's happening in RL in this country right now. It's switches people off.  Read Roberto Ungers theories for more insight.



#95 brooza

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

since 1996 we've only had 4 different winners who are now in 1st, 3rd, 5th & 8th places

Surely this means we have other teams pushing to win


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#96 Viking Warrior

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

Is it just me that smiles/laughs when when Widnes fans refer to Kevin Brown as a big signing?

it wasn't us who did all the spouting about him signing, it was the media who called him a major coup for the chemics.
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#97 Bob8

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:58 PM

alex murphy, jim mills, martin offiah, jonathon davies, paul newlove, ellery hanley, need i really go on???

 


I was in the South at that time.  In the 80's I had never heard of Alex Murphy, Jim Mills or Paul Newlove.


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#98 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 02:59 PM

it wasn't us who did all the spouting about him signing, it was the media who called him a major coup for the chemics.

 

 

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

 

 

So who were you referring to as the two marquee signings in the quote above then? 


Edited by Larry the Leit, 09 May 2013 - 03:00 PM.

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#99 Viking Warrior

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

kevin brown and gareth hock, which marquee signings did your club make????
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#100 Dave T

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 03:32 PM


I was in the South at that time.  In the 80's I had never heard of Alex Murphy, Jim Mills or Paul Newlove.

Yep - it's laughable that anybody could suggest that Paul Newlove was a well-known name in sport.






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