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Bringing back promotion and relegation will set the sport back in this country several years

The return of boom and bust

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#121 BOLTON ROUGHYED

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:29 PM

Only because they were on the BBC with a captive audience, not because of huge interest in RL. 

 

 

And that actually makes it worse. Not only was there P&R but famous players and lots of coverage (allegedly) So why weren't RL club crowds as big as they are now? (When RL is apparently at deaths door -again)

 I think you'll find that their are less people watching RL now than 20 years ago.

At that time teams like Oldham, Halifax, Featherstone, Leigh, to name but a few could regularly attract 5,000+ crowds. Now they would be lucky to get 5,000 between them. All that has happened is similar/less numbers of people are watching but are spread around fewer medium sized clubs.

 SL has led to the demise at least in part to many clubs who had a decent following...This is, after all, exactly what the RL want. The only way to get close to the Australian model is to have 1 (super)league and b*gg*r everyone else. 



#122 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:34 PM

I think you'll find that their are less people watching RL now than 20 years ago.
At that time teams like Oldham, Halifax, Featherstone, Leigh, to name but a few could regularly attract 5,000+ crowds. Now they would be lucky to get 5,000 between them. All that has happened is similar/less numbers of people are watching but are spread around fewer medium sized clubs.
SL has led to the demise at least in part to many clubs who had a decent following...This is, after all, exactly what the RL want. The only way to get close to the Australian model is to have 1 (super)league and b*gg*r everyone else.


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#123 keighley

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 05:37 PM

The simple truth is the game is contracted to deliver to SKY an elite professional competition

There is no option to go part time without rejecting the SKY contract.

Reject that and the game will end up smaller than it was when it used to interest you.

 

Maybe so Parksider, but his other point is spot on. The patterns of a SL game are becoming boring and repetitive. The RU types are not all that wrong when they go on about 5 drives and a kick. Its four drives, a move towards width involving two or three dummy runners and then a kick. you can set your watch by it.

 

Are you sure about Skys insistence of a fully pro SL.? So long as they get entertaining rugby which draws the crowds and more imporatntly viewers, I don't think they care one bit whether it's fully pro or not.



#124 Padge

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 06:37 PM

 I think you'll find that their are less people watching RL now than 20 years ago.

At that time teams like Oldham, Halifax, Featherstone, Leigh, to name but a few could regularly attract 5,000+ crowds. Now they would be lucky to get 5,000 between them. All that has happened is similar/less numbers of people are watching but are spread around fewer medium sized clubs.

 SL has led to the demise at least in part to many clubs who had a decent following...This is, after all, exactly what the RL want. The only way to get close to the Australian model is to have 1 (super)league and b*gg*r everyone else. 

 

Really!!!

 

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#125 Johnoco

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

I think you'll find that their are less people watching RL now than 20 years ago.
At that time teams like Oldham, Halifax, Featherstone, Leigh, to name but a few could regularly attract 5,000+ crowds. Now they would be lucky to get 5,000 between them. All that has happened is similar/less numbers of people are watching but are spread around fewer medium sized clubs.
SL has led to the demise at least in part to many clubs who had a decent following...This is, after all, exactly what the RL want. The only way to get close to the Australian model is to have 1 (super)league and b*gg*r everyone else.

So what went wrong? Why was everything great with most clubs getting great crowds, p&r was in place, household names etc yet the game nearly went belly up and had to take the sky money?
How come?

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#126 The Parksider

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 07:14 PM

Maybe so Parksider, but his other point is spot on. The patterns of a SL game are becoming boring and repetitive. The RU types are not all that wrong when they go on about 5 drives and a kick. Its four drives, a move towards width involving two or three dummy runners and then a kick. you can set your watch by it.
 
Are you sure about Skys insistence of a fully pro SL.? So long as they get entertaining rugby which draws the crowds and more imporatntly viewers, I don't think they care one bit whether it's fully pro or not.

I guess the players would care and they'd go play union?

#127 keighley

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

I guess the players would care and they'd go play union?

 

Are there enough professional vacancies in RU to accommodate all the players in SL, especially the forwards, whose skills don't transfer so easily? I doubt that. It could be better half a loaf than none for RL pros if SL went semi pro.



#128 The Parksider

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 07:59 PM

Are there enough professional vacancies in RU to accommodate all the players in SL,

No, the point is which code will future rugby players who want to become professionals choose and in the end which SL clubs will look to play union. Several moved in that direction before.....

#129 Johnoco

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:03 PM

Some good points made about this on the red button forum after the game. Millward is now pro p&r despite being anti it when he came to the UK

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#130 The Parksider

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:16 PM

The patterns of a SL game are becoming boring and repetitive.

Well if you say so.

Thanks for letting me know.

Trouble is boring and repetitive attracts close on 10,000 average crowds to SL matches.

Lets make it more boring and repetitive and maybe more robots will come and pay £20 a throw.

I hanker after the old days when every match was exciting and you didn't know what was going to happen from one minute to the next.

My finest memory of the old days was at Mount Pleasant where in the mud Fax won 9-4.

You just didn't know what was going to happen that day from one minute to the next.....

#131 shaun mc

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

Some good points made about this on the red button forum after the game. Millward is now pro p&r despite being anti it when he came to the UK

I noticed that as well, yet because p and r in sport is quoted as part of the DNA of the supporters and therefore part of the requirements of the sporting public in the UK its viewed as wrong somehow.
Noble quoted the play-off places and final weekend relegation battles in football, as being the most exciting. You can't get away from it.....the tide is turning.
Its up to the games governing body to provide the structures, strategy, sponsorship, income and national profile in place (no mean feat BTW) to be able to put p mad r in place IMHO. It just can't happen with the chasm as it is now.

#132 The Future is League

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:15 AM

Just a sobering thought for those who think that  P & R will help the England/GB Team it Won't.  With P & R top league England/GB have never beaten the Aussie's in a series on won a world cup.



#133 oldrover

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

There are no morons on this forum; not now anyway

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#134 Red John

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

I noticed that as well, yet because p and r in sport is quoted as part of the DNA of the supporters and therefore part of the requirements of the sporting public in the UK its viewed as wrong somehow.
Noble quoted the play-off places and final weekend relegation battles in football, as being the most exciting. You can't get away from it.....the tide is turning.
Its up to the games governing body to provide the structures, strategy, sponsorship, income and national profile in place (no mean feat BTW) to be able to put p mad r in place IMHO. It just can't happen with the chasm as it is now.

This, if I read you correctly, is the problem. I doubt many people are opposed to P&R per se (although this argument that it's part of the UK's DNA is, for me, complete rubbish: are there any other sports that promote and relegate between a part-time competition and its full-time top flight?). The problem is the gulf between the divisions. Advocates of P&R seem to focus solely on the 'P' and forget the effect the 'R' has on the relegated club. If the divisions were more even, this wouldn't be such a problem. But they aren't, and it is. The only solution is to even up the divisions, but the sport doesn't have the funds to do that at the moment. Until it does, I really don't think we should be bringing P&R back.



#135 keighley

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:28 PM

Well if you say so.

Thanks for letting me know.

Trouble is boring and repetitive attracts close on 10,000 average crowds to SL matches.

Lets make it more boring and repetitive and maybe more robots will come and pay £20 a throw.

I hanker after the old days when every match was exciting and you didn't know what was going to happen from one minute to the next.

My finest memory of the old days was at Mount Pleasant where in the mud Fax won 9-4.

You just didn't know what was going to happen that day from one minute to the next.....

 

 

Well 75,000 will go to old Trafford to watch wendyball or 95,000 to Wembley to watch 1 score all game, or 70,000 to Twickenham to watch a penalty goal kicking contest but that doesn't compute into the attractiveness of the product on view in my opinion. Those examples are all dire sporting spectacles.

 

Back in the bad old days you are referencing Wigan used to average 14,000 in Winter under the old rules. Further back Northern used to do the same. I don't get your point here.

 

Whilst RL is better than any of the above, in my opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion, the SL games I have watched have an element of boring sameness to them due to safety first tactics and the same repetitive repeat plays on every set.



#136 keighley

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:31 PM

Just a sobering thought for those who think that  P & R will help the England/GB Team it Won't.  With P & R top league England/GB have never beaten the Aussie's in a series on won a world cup.

 

That just dosn't compute because we have beaten them twice in the final when we had just one big league of 30 clubs.



#137 The Parksider

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:32 PM

In my opinion, and I'm entitled to my opinion, the SL games I have watched have an element of boring sameness to them due to safety first tactics and the same repetitive repeat plays on every set.

It's a good reason for you to continue to follow the Championship then.

#138 keighley

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:35 PM

It's a good reason for you to continue to follow the Championship then.

 

Whatever.



#139 The Future is League

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:26 PM

That just dosn't compute because we have beaten them twice in the final when we had just one big league of 30 clubs.

Still no P & R is the point I'am making



#140 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:44 PM

:lol: :lol: :lol:

My mistake
There's just the one
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