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Marwan Koukash - Set to ignore the salary cap!


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#101 RSN

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

The topic , as usual has gone the way of most recent posts about Salford & Marwan Koukash- Doubters who think he is skint , & Haters with short memories .

I'm not so stupid as to argue against claims Koukash is sometimes ill educated in the ' craft of SL manners ' or not hyprotical , yes he is pursuing a cap increase for Salford's/ his interest .

We had a well mannered Chairman who guided the club for over 30 yrs , never upset anyone mainly because he never had the Players Or capital to really contest. but ultimately he left us a devastated club owing millions by playing fair ...
Now we have a not so well mannered Chairman for 12 weeks , who is upsetting everyone , because he has capital and wants to use it for players to contest, and he he might not play fair ..

ask me which one I prefer , and say that those 3 quotes above aren't patently true.


Good post.

#102 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

I don't hate Koukash, or doubt he's got the money.  I do doubt that he'll spend it at Salford and be there for the long term though, and I'd hate to see them left in limbo again.


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#103 Dave T

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:28 PM

The topic , as usual has gone the way of most recent posts about Salford & Marwan Koukash-  Doubters who think he is skint , & Haters with short memories .

 

I'm not so stupid as to argue against claims  Koukash is sometimes ill educated in the ' craft of SL manners ' or not hyprotical , yes he is pursuing a cap increase for Salford's/ his interest .  

 

We had a well mannered Chairman who guided the club for over 30 yrs , never upset anyone mainly because he never had the Players Or capital to really contest. but ultimately he left us a devastated club owing millions by playing fair ...

Now we have a not so well mannered Chairman for 12 weeks , who is upsetting everyone , because he has capital and wants to use it for players to contest, and he he might not play fair ..

 

ask me which one I prefer , and say that those 3 quotes above  aren't patently true.

I haven't seen any of these doubters who think he is skint. I'm not sure what you mean by haters with short memories tbh.

 

The thing is with the three quotes - it is easy to say that we undersell ourselves, I'd rather he came up with solutions, paying more for players won't solve this. It didn;t before 1995 when we used to sign Union players and they have far more money than us, so targeting a battle with Union is just a waste of time and energy tbh.

 

I'd have more time for his point about under-selling the game if he was suggesting giving more funds to a centralised marketing team or similar.



#104 SCRseadiver

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:29 PM

It's a bit hard to properly understand what the Doctor is trying to achieve from these kinds of comments?

 

Is is about publicity and media attention, if so then it's working. If it's about gaining political advantage amongst the clubs then it can't be helping.

If it's truly about winning on the field though then I don't get it. Surely if the cap is tight then you a) Spend big off the field on infrastructure and support staff.

 

He's started well by bringing in Noble. But instead of breaking the cap why not build the best academy structure in SL and attract the top Rugby talent in the Greater Manchester area. Target the top 14-18year olds, buy the best development coach you can find, build the best gym and then let the pot simmer for 5 years.

 

After that time you'll be guaranteed to be a Top 4 teams with depth of talent and cheap stars coming through.

It just seems like he's not putting enough emphasis on the foundations and is impatient. But, as I say, that's assuming his agenda is transparent...

   Dr Koukash wants a winning/competitive side on the field as the first of the tasks he addresses.He was amazed when Leeds played in the WCC game in February

against a side from Australia with a far larger cap,and was not surprised when the visitors won.

    Dr Koukash does not have delusions of averageness.I do not know how long he took to have his first race horse winner but winning is his only focus.

    As some clubs fail to pay the salary cap as it stands he has no interest in the revenue streams of other clubs but has become aware that other clubs breach the salary cap.

    This issue has been the top of his agenda right from the start.

     As he took over the club in January the silence emanating from Red Hall has been deafening.

     How long does it take to decide whether or not guidelines brought in years ago are still relevant and beneficial to the sport ?



#105 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:31 PM

I'd have more time for his point about under-selling the game if he was suggesting giving more funds to a centralised marketing team or similar.

 

Or started getting the numbers through the gate at Salford!


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#106 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:34 PM

Fair call.  Without them having to account for all their debits/credits and HMRC involvement I don't think that it can ever be assured.

 

I believe it was a club chairman who referred to the impossibility of checking on brown envelopes just a few short years ago. I can't remember who it was, but I do remember the 'brown envelopes' quote. And of course he was right. Nobody can possibly check that.


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#107 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:34 PM

Or started getting the numbers through the gate at Salford!

 

That will take a lot longer than three months, though. Give him a chance.


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#108 Larry the Leit

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:38 PM

That will take a lot longer than three months, though. Give him a chance.

 

Yes of course, I assume that you're a local, have you noticed any push on the marketing side of things?


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#109 tonyXIII

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

Yes of course, I assume that you're a local, have you noticed any push on the marketing side of things?

 

You assume wrong. I live 90 miles away in enemy territory, aka Yorkshire (at you, Wolford! ;) ). I live in Malton, a really nice place to live, and another thing in its favour is that you can't get the Manchester Evening Nonsense here. :)


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#110 Red John

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:46 PM

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I read what he said as an attempt to goad the RFL into some form of action over the salary cap. I think he's too savvy to have just blurted this out without having thought about it. I also doubt he's gone shooting his mouth off without asking questions first. He's got some very experienced backroom staff in at the club now, and, in one of the early press conferences, seemed to defer to them on specifically rugby related matters.

 

He certainly seems to have rocked the boat amongst the fans, if not the RFL.

 

Yes of course, I assume that you're a local, have you noticed any push on the marketing side of things?

At the moment the club are conducting a 'root and branch' reform of all its operations. I suspect the marketing push will begin in earnest in the build up to next season when we'll (hopefully) have something to market.


Edited by Red John, 09 May 2013 - 07:47 PM.


#111 RSN

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:07 PM

Or started getting the numbers through the gate at Salford!


It's so much easier getting fans through the gates with a winning side though. I've seen it at Barrow in 09 and I've seen it fall over the last 4 years. We were hitting 3k when we were winning, we are getting barely a third of that now. How much coverage the club has got hasn't change at all.

People turn upto watch a winning side. Koukash wants one and has the finances to do so. When the club starts winning crowds will increase. A rich backer in a modern stadium in an area with huge potential to be a massive RL club wants to buy a team to make the club successful.

We are holding the sport back by not letting him do it.

#112 gingerjon

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

At the moment the club are conducting a 'root and branch' reform of all its operations. I suspect the marketing push will begin in earnest in the build up to next season when we'll (hopefully) have something to market.

Fair enough. Didn't know that.
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#113 Scuuba

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:14 PM

This is definitely my take as well RJ. I just don't think a guy with that kind of successful background would go about alienating so many people without a proper reason for doing so!

 

 

But the point still stands, is he interested in the good of the league (with comments such as 'the sport is undersold') or is he simply looking for the fast track to a title? There is a reason the cap exists, and it's generally accepted that it keeps the league fairly competitive and keeps non sugar daddy teams from tearing themselves apart trying to compete. Granted this hasn't been fool proof, but would a larger cap just increase the chances of history repeating on a bigger scale?

 

The last thing you want is a league completely dictated by the whims of rich individuals and where rugby generated income becomes minor compared to handouts and chairman loans. There isn't the same ownership queue lining up as there are with football clubs, so if you push the ceiling too high then you give clubs no option when an owner pulls out.

 

 

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I read what he said as an attempt to goad the RFL into some form of action over the salary cap. I think he's too savvy to have just blurted this out without having thought about it. I also doubt he's gone shooting his mouth off without asking questions first.



#114 Pottsy

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

Fair enough. Didn't know that.


Common knowledge locally but we'll forgive you. Koukash inherited a car crash of a club.

Ed Farish is conducting a full review of each dept (last I heard he was looking at the community dept). Given the mess left behind it's a big job.

#115 Pottsy

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:19 PM

Maybe I'm a bit naive, but I read what he said as an attempt to goad the RFL into some form of action over the salary cap. I think he's too savvy to have just blurted this out without having thought about it. I also doubt he's gone shooting his mouth off without asking questions first. He's got some very experienced backroom staff in at the club now, and, in one of the early press conferences, seemed to defer to them on specifically rugby related matters.

He certainly seems to have rocked the boat amongst the fans, if not the RFL.

At the moment the club are conducting a 'root and branch' reform of all its operations. I suspect the marketing push will begin in earnest in the build up to next season when we'll (hopefully) have something to market.


At last some sense. You don't have the success Koukash has enjoyed in his other ventures by being the 'blustering buffoon' some of the experts on here are trying to portray him as.

He's shaking the tree.

#116 Hullfan

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:29 PM

Hull fc did this a few yr back with I think Richard swain (could be wrong) maybe Shaun berrigan, the wife of who ever it was run the club shop and earned a very vast amount good on kouCASH!!!!!!!!!

#117 Red John

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:36 PM

This is definitely my take as well RJ. I just don't think a guy with that kind of successful background would go about alienating so many people without a proper reason for doing so!

 

 

But the point still stands, is he interested in the good of the league (with comments such as 'the sport is undersold') or is he simply looking for the fast track to a title? There is a reason the cap exists, and it's generally accepted that it keeps the league fairly competitive and keeps non sugar daddy teams from tearing themselves apart trying to compete. Granted this hasn't been fool proof, but would a larger cap just increase the chances of history repeating on a bigger scale?

 

The last thing you want is a league completely dictated by the whims of rich individuals and where rugby generated income becomes minor compared to handouts and chairman loans. There isn't the same ownership queue lining up as there are with football clubs, so if you push the ceiling too high then you give clubs no option when an owner pulls out.

I don't think he's against the cap per se, more that he thinks it should be raised (for all clubs, not just Salford). It hasn't even risen with inflation over the past few years, so, in real terms, it's actually falling. This has two detrimental effects. Firstly, players will be able to earn more elsewhere, either in the NRL on in Union. Secondly, there is maybe just the tiniest teensy-weensiest little suspicion that some, unnamed, but successful clubs might just possibly be circumventing it. Just maybe. Possibly.

 

So, yes, I wouldn't want rugby to become like football, where a club can buy a few trophies and consider it success (and I'm looking at you here, Warrington), but raising the salary cap a bit wouldn't necessarily drive us down that road.



#118 Padge

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

I don't think he's against the cap per se, more that he thinks it should be raised (for all clubs, not just Salford). It hasn't even risen with inflation over the past few years, so, in real terms, it's actually falling. This has two detrimental effects. Firstly, players will be able to earn more elsewhere, either in the NRL on in Union. Secondly, there is maybe just the tiniest teensy-weensiest little suspicion that some, unnamed, but successful clubs might just possibly be circumventing it. Just maybe. Possibly.

 

So, yes, I wouldn't want rugby to become like football, where a club can buy a few trophies and consider it success (and I'm looking at you here, Warrington), but raising the salary cap a bit wouldn't necessarily drive us down that road.

I think he's making noises about the cap for the reasons I posted earlier, he wants it policing properly (though I do think they try hard as it is) or changing, his preference being keep it and change it/police it better.

 

He's no bloody fool, he know's what he's saying and isn't mouthing off for the hell of it.



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#119 mick wilson

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:14 AM

I'm no lawyer, but how can the RFL have the right to restrict the earning or job prospects of Mrs A, and prevent her from working at a club because they happen to employ Mr A as a player?
 
Perhaps Mr Koukash should get some top players to play for Salford on a voluntary basis like Radlinski is said to have done for Wigan in the year that they broke the spirit of the cap.

While I don't agree with dodgy dealing, it goes on and some clubs get demoted when found out while others don't.

#120 mick wilson

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:17 AM

I imagine his unintentional whistleblowing will go down well with the other Chairman too. Everyone knows the teams at the top find ways and means to spend more than they should, they're just a lot smarterer about it.

Or classed as one of the golden boy clubs thus treated differently when caught.