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Marwan Koukash - Set to ignore the salary cap!


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#161 Larry the Leit

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:26 AM

Now I know that RU clubs need bigger squads, but I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions. 

 

I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.



#162 The Parksider

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.

I understand Paul Caddick is one of the richest men in sport, he is Leeds carnegie's chairman.

#163 foozler

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:01 AM

I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.

 

There is a local moneyman at Newcastle and Caddick obviously puts money into Carnegie.



#164 gingerjon

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Some perspective on the current salary cap level in RL.

 

 

The Yorkshire Post this morning has a report on Saturday's RU Championship play off match between Newcastle Falcons and Leeds Carnegie. So second tier of English club RU in a competition which currently has no title sponsor.

 

According to the YP, Newcastle's playing budget for the season now closing was £4m and Leeds Carnegie's was £2m. In the article Hetherington does mention the 'mania' in rugby union for throwing cash around at players but nonetheless he indicates that the Carnegie budget will be the same for next season.

 

Now I know that RU clubs need bigger squads, but I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions. 

Given the rate at which clubs go bust in rugby union the perspective I'm getting is that we'd do well to avoid such wreckless short-termism.


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#165 Scuuba

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

Surely it's no coincedence in that nearly all fully professional British sports teams are either bank rolled by wealthy individuals or else not competitive?

If anything these numbers highlight exactly why SLE can't increase the cap, unless more clubs are propped up by weathly owners?



#166 The Parksider

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

If anything these numbers highlight exactly why SLE can't increase the cap, unless more clubs are propped up by weathly owners?

Not exactly.

Superleague has several wealthy owners who have stated they don't want to put any more money in.

Also several wealthyb owners who have stated their clubs should run without their money.

I can't think of many owners who just want to throw millions around......

Well maybe mr. Koukash and mr. Nahaboo...maybe....

#167 Cockney4league

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

Does the salary cap include bonuses as well? Could you possibly give someone a lower salary but pay them a huge win bonus or do the bonuses have to be in the salary cap?

#168 brooza

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:42 AM

Does the salary cap include bonuses as well? Could you possibly give someone a lower salary but pay them a huge win bonus or do the bonuses have to be in the salary cap?

It's all in here: http://www.therfl.co...ules?section=E1

 

Makes interesting reading. For example, any player that has played at the same club for 10 years only has half their salary count towards the cap (up to a maximum of £50,000)


Edited by brooza, 13 May 2013 - 11:43 AM.

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#169 Cockney4league

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:51 AM

It's all in here: http://www.therfl.co...ules?section=E1

 

Makes interesting reading. For example, any player that has played at the same club for 10 years only has half their salary count towards the cap (up to a maximum of £50,000)



#170 Cockney4league

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:53 AM

Thanks for the link I will read that. I didn't realise that, I presume Leeds who have had Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire for 10 years must save a lot of money on the cap.

#171 brooza

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:05 PM

Thanks for the link I will read that. I didn't realise that, I presume Leeds who have had Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire for 10 years must save a lot of money on the cap.

Even with 3 players, the maximum is £50k, which I imagine we hit.

 

I think I worked it out a while ago that Leeds get an extra £150,000* on the cap with all the exemptions

 

 

*Number plucked out of the air from my hazy memory


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#172 brooza

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:08 PM

Found my post, an extra £190,000 for Leeds, though I used the wrong starting point

 

http://www.totalrl.c...-4#entry2662190


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#173 foozler

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:03 PM

Given the rate at which clubs go bust in rugby union the perspective I'm getting is that we'd do well to avoid such wreckless short-termism.

 

You give the impression that clubs in English RU going bust is a big problem. I know Wasps were in bother last year and it looks like London Welsh could be after their backer has pulled out but I can't think of any others in the top two competitions in recent times. So no more really than in RL.

 

I just find it amazing that Championship RU appears to have a higher cap than Superleague.

 

You can understand Koukash's issue, that the current cap levels will be placing some major limits on who he can recruit, even though money is no issue for the club. I presume he got involved with Salford to win things, generally you need the best to win trophies and more often than not the best cost money. It could be argued the current low cap level is a big disincentive for people from outside the sport to invest their money in RL as it places a major restriction on the assembly of a competitive team of top talent in the short term. Which is probably what is needed at Salford.



#174 TwoBlues

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:56 PM

While England sleeps,over in Australia the salary cap is set to rise http://www.zerotackl...to-hit-7m-9557/



#175 Dave T

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:48 PM

You give the impression that clubs in English RU going bust is a big problem. I know Wasps were in bother last year and it looks like London Welsh could be after their backer has pulled out but I can't think of any others in the top two competitions in recent times. So no more really than in RL.

 

I just find it amazing that Championship RU appears to have a higher cap than Superleague.

 

You can understand Koukash's issue, that the current cap levels will be placing some major limits on who he can recruit, even though money is no issue for the club. I presume he got involved with Salford to win things, generally you need the best to win trophies and more often than not the best cost money. It could be argued the current low cap level is a big disincentive for people from outside the sport to invest their money in RL as it places a major restriction on the assembly of a competitive team of top talent in the short term. Which is probably what is needed at Salford.

The simple fact is that Rugby League has a cap that matches it's levels of income. Rugby Union has one that matches it's level of income.

 

The difference in turnover between RU clubs and RL clubs is staggering, especially when you look at the crowds.

 

As long as Union fills massive stadiums in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Dublin and Paris on a regular basis, and we struggle to fill Wigan, Hull, Huddersfield and Leigh, then they will always be richer.



#176 The Parksider

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:53 PM

The simple fact is that Rugby League has a cap that matches it's levels of income. Rugby Union has one that matches it's level of income.
 
The difference in turnover between RU clubs and RL clubs is staggering, especially when you look at the crowds.
 
As long as Union fills massive stadiums in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Dublin and Paris on a regular basis, and we struggle to fill Wigan, Hull, Huddersfield and Leigh, then they will always be richer.

Indeed they will, what's also missed is the idea that if Koukash can spend more than the cap he can buy in quality players, but where from?? If they let him spend another £million and he just buys up players from other SL clubs that would be a farce. He can outspend several SL clubs now, I guess he'd better just get on with doing what other top SL clubs do - go buy the best SL players the bottom clubs have.

#177 Dave T

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:06 PM

Indeed they will, what's also missed is the idea that if Koukash can spend more than the cap he can buy in quality players, but where from?? If they let him spend another £million and he just buys up players from other SL clubs that would be a farce. He can outspend several SL clubs now, I guess he'd better just get on with doing what other top SL clubs do - go buy the best SL players the bottom clubs have.

If Union and the NRL had salary caps that were only £500k above ours then I think there would be a valid argument to raise ours to help us combat losing players. 

As their salary caps are massively higher than ours, a raise of even £500k would be a waste of time and would simply put more clubs in a difficult financial position.



#178 Middleman

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:40 PM

Joe Ford is the Son of former Oldham , Wigan player Mike Ford , 22 a bright prospect , but playing the other code like Andy Farrell's kid .

 

Marquee players I guess are the best two - three players ( Internationals - ETS etc ) you have , after a set cap , anything else you pay them is up to you , providing you have either the backer- sponsorship - or business plan to afford it .

 

this way you get 24-36 of the best/ better players to stay in the comp?

 

this would also free up the cap to attract more players from RU - like above. and maybe quota players , I would suspect now are more likely to be Pacific Islander qualified who are prospects but off the NRL radar .

 

 

 

 






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