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No red card for punching


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#41 Wolford6

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

Wardle got what he deserved. He kept punching in what wasn't an exchange of blows. He could have cost his team the game through his stupidity. I don't think he'll get much sympathy from Paul Anderson or the Rugby League disciplinary panel.

 

 

 

I always wondered what his hands are trained for, because he never passes the ball with them.


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#42 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:24 PM

The NRL don't throw red cards about for fighting, they're doing just fine. I haven't seen any compelling evidence to say that red carding players for punching helps the games image or popularity. The game isn't going to fall on its ###### because of a little fighting.

 

People say it, over and over and over, but they never offer any sort of proof for their claims that it does the sport harm. The facts say otherwise, don't they. Rugby leagues biggest spectacle, the one spectacle that pulls in an abundance of casual sports fans around the world - without relying on patriotic bullsh*t like international games do - is based on that element of the game.

 

Mark Geyer had it right the other year when he said that if there was a guaranteed fight at every game, the sports attendance figures would sky rocket something stupid. If next Monday Bailey was liable to start a brawl against St Helens, don't you think more people would watch?

 

But there seems to be this silly, prissy notion that a 10,000 strong crowd with loads of women and kids in it is somehow better than a much bigger crowd and television audience which is dominated almost exclusively by males. Let's just ignore that there are many people who watch and grew to love sports like league because of the gladitorial violence.

 

The game will survive without fighting, but removing fighting isn't going to help it in anyway. If you had two comps of equal skill side by side, one where fighting was relatively frequent and only warranted a stint in the sin bin, and one where fighting was a red card everytime and thus fighting was a rarity, which is going to dominate the other in so far as viewership? I think we all know.



#43 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 03:25 PM

Wardle got what he deserved. He kept punching in what wasn't an exchange of blows. He could have cost his team the game through his stupidity. I don't think he'll get much sympathy from Paul Anderson or the Rugby League disciplinary panel.

 

 

 

I always wondered what his hands are trained for, because he never passes the ball with them.

 

The Leeds player kneed him in the head with force several times. I don't know if anyone watched the review on the red button afterwards but it was clear as day and ridiculous. Wardle was well within his right to throw punches, the referee obviously had no interest in protecting him.



#44 tonyXIII

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:09 PM

The Leeds player kneed him in the head with force several times. I don't know if anyone watched the review on the red button afterwards but it was clear as day and ridiculous. Wardle was well within his right to throw punches, the referee obviously had no interest in protecting him.

 

Well I watched it, twice in fact, and I didn't see any knees going in. I did see Ablett butt his head into Wardle's chest as he played the ball. There was then an exchange of views and some pushing, concluding with Wardle throwing some punches.

 

I don't think Wardle has any grounds for complaint. He lost his discipline and he should not have. Leeds were clearly trying to niggle Huddersfield and they only succeeded with this one incident. FWIW, I think Ablett should have seen yellow for the provocation. (Head butting is just as illegal as punching, but it wasn't head to head.)


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#45 jacksy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:20 PM

Kids of our generation were never discouraged from playing in the 80's....and there was plenty of biff on display back then....

 

I am with you.  Brawls and fights do not turn parents off the game..I have been coaching for years and i have never come across any parent that has even brought the subject up.


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#46 jacksy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:23 PM

The Leeds player kneed him in the head with force several times. I don't know if anyone watched the review on the red button afterwards but it was clear as day and ridiculous. Wardle was well within his right to throw punches, the referee obviously had no interest in protecting him.

 Spot on, Ablett knees him in the head on at least two occasions during the tackle.


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#47 jacksy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:30 PM

it's the "it's all part of the game" stuff,to me it isn't.RL to me is about skill and flair and passion but not violence.

Are you serious? The game itself is a violent game. Are you seriously saying that you have never once in all your years of watching league been roused or cheered at seeing two players go toe toe or a GB player smashing an aussie? what do you do? tut tut tut or something?


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#48 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

Are you serious? The game itself is a violent game. Are you seriously saying that you have never once in all your years of watching league been roused or cheered at seeing two players go toe toe or a GB player smashing an aussie? what do you do? tut tut tut or something?

I go to a game to watch the skill on offer,to see my team win,not in the hope of some "biff",is that so wrong.It obviously is to some.If there is some "biff" then fair enough,but that's not why I love this game.


Edited by terrywebbisgod, 12 May 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#49 jacksy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:40 PM

I go to a game to watch the skill on offer,to see my team win,not in the hope of some "biff",is that so wrong.It obviously is to some.If there is some "biff" then fair enough,but that's not why I love this game.

 

I did not say that, i asked you if have you ever cheered or been roused by a bit of biff? whether it be leeds or the national team or even your local amateur team. I do not love the game for anything other than it is in my opininion the best game It is brutal by nature and biff occurs.


Edited by jacksy, 12 May 2013 - 04:42 PM.

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#50 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:44 PM

I did not say that, i asked you if have you ever cheered or been roused by a bit of biff? whether it be leeds or the national team or even your local amateiur team

Of course I have.


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#51 gingerjon

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:45 PM

If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).
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#52 Larry the Leit

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:43 PM

 Spot on, Ablett knees him in the head on at least two occasions during the tackle.

 

Very similar to the Farrell/Poore incident in many respects.  I thought Farrell pushed things a good deal further than Ablett, but there was definite and easily visible physical provocation.  Better refereeing could have dealt with both issues before they escalated.


Edited by Larry the Leit, 12 May 2013 - 06:53 PM.

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#53 Dave T

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

I think where a couple of players lose their head and get a bit over-excited then a yellow card is fair enough. This is normally what happens in Origin. Wardle wasn't in a face to face fight, he just attacked Ablett (who is one of the dirtiest players in SL) but neither of the Leeds players punched back. Why should they have to take this thuggish behaviour?

 

Incidentally, the last time I saw a nasty fight in Origin, the player was in fact sent off - Brett White 2009.



#54 Scuuba

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:48 PM

The NRL were pretty quick to outlaw the shoulder charge in favour or safety over entertainment. So I don't buy into the 'if the Aussies aren't doing it' train of thought.

I reckon they had it right to go for safety over violence with the shoulder charge and that a Red for punching is in the same vein. The game doesn't need excessive violence and wilful damage of players, outside the laws of the game, to be entertaining. You shouldn't need to advertise players trying knock each other out to sell the sport, that's what boxing did and it has suffered a slow burning death from mainstream media because of it.

 

And players simply need to get over the niggle and play on, otherwise teams will exploit your short fuse as a weakness and put you off your game time after time.

Wait for the chance and get your own back. Niggle is a skill like many others in the game. It doesn't have to be dirty, but it can be mighty effective if done well.



#55 jacksy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 08:53 PM

If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).

You aint been watching this weekend then


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#56 Ant

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:33 PM

Wardle deserved his red card, I've no complaints about that really, as soon as it happened I knew it would be a sending off

That said Ablett did knee him and niggle him and the touch judge missed it utterly and the penalty should have gone to the giants before Wardle took matters into his own fists

Additionally in the context of this season McGuire should have walked for leaping onto Crabtrees throat in the first half, Kyle L should have walked for clothes lining Robinson later on (given Robinson was sent off v Catalans for standing in the way of a dummy runner who then went down like a dead swan)

McGuire should have been binned for his attack on Cudjoe as well

But hey, I'll take the win

#57 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:54 PM

Well I watched it, twice in fact, and I didn't see any knees going in. I did see Ablett butt his head into Wardle's chest as he played the ball. There was then an exchange of views and some pushing, concluding with Wardle throwing some punches.

 

I don't think Wardle has any grounds for complaint. He lost his discipline and he should not have. Leeds were clearly trying to niggle Huddersfield and they only succeeded with this one incident. FWIW, I think Ablett should have seen yellow for the provocation. (Head butting is just as illegal as punching, but it wasn't head to head.)

 


The kneeing wasn't visible until they replayed it on the red button as part of the post-match discussion panel. Live it looked fine, and they didn't replay it live either.

 

It was similar to Radford - Bailey the other year, where Bailey elbowed him in the head repeatedly, watching it live it looked fine, but when replayed you can see why Radford reacted. Well it was like that, apart from there was absolutely no doubt as to the fact Ablett was kneeing Wardle in his face intentionally, he did it three times too.

 

Everyone who caught the after match stuff on 301 will concur with what I'm saying. Ablett should be suspended if you ask me, brought the game into disrepute. Kneeing people like that is never on, let alone 3 times in a row.



#58 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:59 PM

If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).

 

Burgess - Foran the other day, no send off. Mcguire and Allgood at the weekend, no send off.



#59 RSN

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:07 PM

I'd would have the rule:

Red- A punch which is on an individual who is in no state or position to defend themselves.

Yellow - An unprovoked punch in a game which isn't heated at all.

Yellow - A second directly provoked punch in a match.

Penalty - Any directly provoked first punch.

Penalty - A unprovoked punch in a heated game.

A directly provoked punch is one which was led from the opposition provoking you from any method from verbal actions to physical.

I've watched the game since I was very young. I've always enjoyed a bit of a bust up in a game. Do I want to do it myself? No. I understand why it happens I feel most do. I don't enjoy fighting or watching it, I can't watch boxing for more than 2 rounds without getting bored. IMO it doesn't put the sport in a bad light, people understand why it happens.

Sending people off for punching won't get it out of our game. People don't think of the consequences when they do it. They do it because its part of our DNA.

Edited by barrowraiderskid, 12 May 2013 - 10:12 PM.


#60 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:19 PM

I think where a couple of players lose their head and get a bit over-excited then a yellow card is fair enough. This is normally what happens in Origin. Wardle wasn't in a face to face fight, he just attacked Ablett (who is one of the dirtiest players in SL) but neither of the Leeds players punched back. Why should they have to take this thuggish behaviour?

 

Incidentally, the last time I saw a nasty fight in Origin, the player was in fact sent off - Brett White 2009.

 

Brett White stayed on the field, he wasn't even sin binned for the fight with White and nor should he have been. It was Waterhouse who was sent from the field for coming 3rd man in.

 

And that incident is a stretch because most people agree Waterhouse didn't deserve sending, that decision was daft. It was a token effort from the referee in the hopes of cooling down the Queensland team... which didn't even work. The refs lost control of the game, they were intimidated and started marching people left, right and centre. If they'd showed some composure two more fights might not have happened.

 

And there's been fights just as bad if not worse since. Jennings ran in what, 30 metres off his wing? Superman punched a bloke in the head and only got a sin bin, which most people were outraged over and thought as excessive! what about LOD dropping a player on his head, then getting up and headbutting and punching Dave Taylor a few times? Much worse than what Brett White did, don't even think he got a sin bin. Every year there's a fight equivelant to the one we saw on the weekend in origin and they get on with it. This week there was an almost replica incident with the Broncos McGuire against one of the Eels player, no red card.

 

 

The NRL were pretty quick to outlaw the shoulder charge in favour or safety over entertainment. So I don't buy into the 'if the Aussies aren't doing it' train of thought.

I reckon they had it right to go for safety over violence with the shoulder charge and that a Red for punching is in the same vein. The game doesn't need excessive violence and wilful damage of players, outside the laws of the game, to be entertaining. You shouldn't need to advertise players trying knock each other out to sell the sport, that's what boxing did and it has suffered a slow burning death from mainstream media because of it.

 

And players simply need to get over the niggle and play on, otherwise teams will exploit your short fuse as a weakness and put you off your game time after time.

Wait for the chance and get your own back. Niggle is a skill like many others in the game. It doesn't have to be dirty, but it can be mighty effective if done well.

 


Boxing has suffered a slow burning death because it's a ###### product not worth watching. You don't need the thumbs up from rags and mummys to have a successfull sport, you only have to look at the rise and rise and rise and rise of MMA to see that.

 

The point is there's no evidence that a bit of biff hurts the sport, none what soever. All the evidence runs contrary to it.

 

If people personally don't like it, that's a fair opinion to have. If you have children and it turns you off introducing them to the sport, that's just as valid. It's completely bogus however to say it hurts the game. That's not true and anyone saying so is discrediting themselves.






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