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No red card for punching


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#61 ChrisGS

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 10:25 PM

You go online and search rugby for this months results and what's the most popular video? The Burgess fight with Matai and this fight from yesterday in rugby

 

 

If there's a moral of ethical argument to be made against rugby then by all means, it should be made and had. But it's dishonesty of the highest order to present fighting as something that turns people away from the game and hinders popularity. Non-fans love nothing more than seeing that side of the game and the viewing figures, on television or online, prove it.



#62 RS

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

This whole area is a can of worms. Maguire threw a similar amount of punches 2 mins earlier and his were pretty ineffective similar to Wardle's. I accepted Wardle's offence was slightly worse but when is a punch enough to get you sent off and when isn't it????????

#63 Dave T

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:16 AM


This whole area is a can of worms. Maguire threw a similar amount of punches 2 mins earlier and his were pretty ineffective similar to Wardle's. I accepted Wardle's offence was slightly worse but when is a punch enough to get you sent off and when isn't it????????

i think there were some differences. Firstly the ref saw the provocation from Cudjoe, secondly Cudjoe also threw a half decent punch.

#64 RS

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 07:32 AM

Fair points but does the Cudjoe punch diminish the Maguire punches? Like I say it is a minefield.

#65 tonyXIII

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:09 AM


The kneeing wasn't visible until they replayed it on the red button as part of the post-match discussion panel. Live it looked fine, and they didn't replay it live either.

 

It was similar to Radford - Bailey the other year, where Bailey elbowed him in the head repeatedly, watching it live it looked fine, but when replayed you can see why Radford reacted. Well it was like that, apart from there was absolutely no doubt as to the fact Ablett was kneeing Wardle in his face intentionally, he did it three times too.

 

Everyone who caught the after match stuff on 301 will concur with what I'm saying. Ablett should be suspended if you ask me, brought the game into disrepute. Kneeing people like that is never on, let alone 3 times in a row.

 

Thanks Chris. I didn't watch it on the red button, I replayed it on iPlayer and I couldn't see the kneeing, but I am happy to take your word for it. He definitely stuck his head forcefully into Wardle's chest as he played the ball (a tactic I've seen a number of players use) and he was obviously trying get a reaction and throw Hudds off their game. He almost succeeded. I hope it does get picked up by the review committee, but I'm not holding my breath.


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#66 Dave T

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:26 PM

Fair points but does the Cudjoe punch diminish the Maguire punches? Like I say it is a minefield.

Not necessarily, but I think it does make it different to one player punching another player in the head 5 times with no retaliation. I think the fact that as far as the officials were concerned there was no serious provocation made it a serious offence. I didn't watch the red button show, so I haven't seen what Ablett did wrong either although it does sound like he did something from comments here.

 

One final point - players getting sent off for punching is not new in this country. I remember i the early-mid 90's at a game at Wheldon Road where Bruce McGuire 'punched' Tawera Nikau. I highlighted the word punched as he skimmed Nikau's chin. Nikau went down like a sack of spuds to get the player sent off and was succesful in this. McGuire was sent off.



#67 ChrisGS

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:43 PM

Thanks Chris. I didn't watch it on the red button, I replayed it on iPlayer and I couldn't see the kneeing, but I am happy to take your word for it. He definitely stuck his head forcefully into Wardle's chest as he played the ball (a tactic I've seen a number of players use) and he was obviously trying get a reaction and throw Hudds off their game. He almost succeeded. I hope it does get picked up by the review committee, but I'm not holding my breath.

It was a good pick up by the lads in the BBC studio. Unfortunately you can't get the post-match stuff on iPlayer (I don't think)

 

I've got a sharp eye and usually pick up on niggle and I didn't even notice it until after the game. I'd have thought the ref would have spotted it though because it was pretty obvious stuff judging by the replay.

 

Might show up on Youtube this week, who knows.

 

It is sort of funny that you can get punished more severely for knowing how to throw a punch, or throwing a couple. Reminds me of Manu Tuilagi in union who got banned for about half a year - I exagerate - for throwing a massive haymaker that was caught on super slow motion



#68 hindle xiii

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:52 PM

Reminds me of Manu Tuilagi in union who got banned for about half a year - I exagerate - for throwing a massive haymaker that was caught on super slow motion

On CAshton.


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#69 Human Punk

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:01 PM

I'd would have the rule:

Red- A punch which is on an individual who is in no state or position to defend themselves.

Yellow - An unprovoked punch in a game which isn't heated at all.

Yellow - A second directly provoked punch in a match.

Penalty - Any directly provoked first punch.

Penalty - A unprovoked punch in a heated game.

A directly provoked punch is one which was led from the opposition provoking you from any method from verbal actions to physical.

I've watched the game since I was very young. I've always enjoyed a bit of a bust up in a game. Do I want to do it myself? No. I understand why it happens I feel most do. I don't enjoy fighting or watching it, I can't watch boxing for more than 2 rounds without getting bored. IMO it doesn't put the sport in a bad light, people understand why it happens.

Sending people off for punching won't get it out of our game. People don't think of the consequences when they do it. They do it because its part of our DNA.

I quite like this as an approach. No-one wants to see thuggery or mindless violence, but a good punch-up definitely adds to the spectacle. Who can say they didn't enjoy the Farrell/Scully 'sh***house' scrap, or JP dishing out retribution to Willie Mason, or the titanic Scully/McCracken bout? These are among some of my fondest RL viewing moments.

 

And kids love that sort of almost cartoon-like 'safe' type of fighting anyway - I'd expect that they'd be much more likely to enjoy it than be upset by it.

 

So by all means clamp down on the cynical pre-meditated thuggery (of which Ablett is, ironically, one of the prime exponents), but show a bit more understanding for the 'crime passionelle' of the heat-of-the-moment bit of fisticuffs.



#70 Larry the Leit

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:03 PM

Somebody has suggested a yellow card for an unprovoked punch.  Staggering.


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#71 Roy Boy

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:19 PM

Wardle deserved to walk imo - If you can't sit someone on their back-side after 4 or 5 punches then you shouldn't throw em!  B)


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#72 hindle xiii

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 01:22 PM

No problem with Wardle being sent off.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#73 markleeds

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:05 PM

Just watched it back, Ablett didn't want any of it one he realised Wardle want going to back down, once Delaney knocked Wardle to the floor and a few if the Leeds player came along he started posturing. No doubt Bailey will have been at the back pulling one of the smaller players away.

#74 gingerjon

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

Somebody has suggested a yellow card for an unprovoked punch.  Staggering.

 

Man's game, y'see.  Can't expect men to play with skill and determination when there's the opportunity to hit someone who isn't looking.


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#75 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:32 PM

Just watched it back, Ablett didn't want any of it one he realised Wardle want going to back down, once Delaney knocked Wardle to the floor and a few if the Leeds player came along he started posturing. No doubt Bailey will have been at the back pulling one of the smaller players away.

easy to type that,keep going,keyboard warrior.


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#76 markleeds

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

easy to type that,keep going,keyboard warrior.


Boring.

#77 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:10 PM

Boring.

.Ooh big bad nasty Leeds players.You wouldn't have the nuggets to say anything face to face to them.It's easy to type uninformed spineless rubbish,filling your sad little agenda isn't it.

Like I say,you are a keyboard warrior,nothing more,nothing less.


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#78 RSN

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:15 PM

Somebody has suggested a yellow card for an unprovoked punch. Staggering.


What's staggering about it?

#79 terrywebbisgod

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:16 PM

Wardle charged with a grade C offence,Mcguire and Cudjoe both charged with grade A offences.


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#80 ChrisGS

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:12 PM

Wardle charged with a grade C offence,Mcguire and Cudjoe both charged with grade A offences.

 

And no charge for Ablett for his assault with the knees. Typical of how shambolic the sport is. If it's not replayed and banged on about by commentators they pretend it never happened. They have all the game footage, they absolutely must have seen it, but they're going to turn a blind eye to it because they know most fans missed it.

 

 

I quite like this as an approach. No-one wants to see thuggery or mindless violence, but a good punch-up definitely adds to the spectacle. Who can say they didn't enjoy the Farrell/Scully 'sh***house' scrap, or JP dishing out retribution to Willie Mason, or the titanic Scully/McCracken bout? These are among some of my fondest RL viewing moments.

 

And kids love that sort of almost cartoon-like 'safe' type of fighting anyway - I'd expect that they'd be much more likely to enjoy it than be upset by it.

 

So by all means clamp down on the cynical pre-meditated thuggery (of which Ablett is, ironically, one of the prime exponents), but show a bit more understanding for the 'crime passionelle' of the heat-of-the-moment bit of fisticuffs.

 


One thing that I find funny about the whole violence, kids, family debate. Is that most kids grow up watching professional wrestling, and for a while they believe it to be authentic and their parents are happy to allow them to watch it, all the while letting them have their Santa Clause like delusions about its authenticity.

 

It conflicts with what we're told about families potentially turning away from the game because they don't want their children to see violence.






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