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Rugby League gets support from unexpected quarters - Marion Le Pen


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#41 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:54 AM

I wouldn't ban anyone from watching RL; I just wish they'd bog off and embarrass another sport instead.

I wouldn't have thought that calling for the World Cup to be shown on French television is embarrassing our sport, unless there's something I'm missing.

 

Part of growing up is that you realise that some people you may dislike will share some of your enthusiasms, while some people you would otherwise get on with have no truck with your hobbies and pastimes.

 

For example, I was listening to Mark Lawson's Front Row programme on Radio 4 last night, and he was saying he doesn't like Wagner because Hitler and the Nazis liked his music. Lawson is entitled to his view, but if we are going to check all our fellow enthusiasts' credentials before deciding whether to indulge our favourite sport or music or any other pastime, then we'll soon feel very lonely.

 

And we would actually be handing a great deal of power to these people we don't like, Nick Griffin et al.

 

If Marion Le Pen, who I'd never heard of before seeing this thread, wants to persuade French TV channels to broadcast World Cup games, I hope she succeeds. And, as far as I'm concerned, she can even turn up to cheer on the French team without asking for permission from me or anyone else on this forum.



#42 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:58 AM

Yeah because we won't get tainted by association. Some of the England Rugby Union squad formed some of Ernest Mosleys bodyguards in the 1930's, this still taints RU to this day. We can't afford to send mixed messages, we have to be unambiguous here. And that means dissasociating the game from such people. However rich or influential they might be.

If it was Ernest Mosley, rather than Oswald, then they probably picked the right guy to bodyguard.

 

It may taint rugby union in your mind, and in mine, but the majority of people either within or without rugby union are probably blissfully unaware of this historical titbit.

 

I doubt whether any of our rugby union contributors on this forum would feel tainted by it. And why should they?



#43 MrPosh

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

The only way to stop any extremism is through effective argument - not through banning or exclusion (as long as people are inside the law).

Show them we are an inclusive sport and we may just win some hearts and minds.
People called Romans they go the house

#44 Just Browny

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

I don't mind Marion Le Pen watching RL games. When you look at where FN support is concentrated, it's fair to guess she won't be the pnly person affiliated with the party who supports RL.

However, I most certainly don't want her to piggyback on the game to curry favour, nor do I want her as a mouthpiece for the game's rights. That will offend far more people than it attracts.

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.


#45 Larry the Leit

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

I wouldn't have thought that calling for the World Cup to be shown on French television is embarrassing our sport, unless there's something I'm missing.

 

Part of growing up is that you realise that some people you may dislike will share some of your enthusiasms, while some people you would otherwise get on with have no truck with your hobbies and pastimes.

 

For example, I was listening to Mark Lawson's Front Row programme on Radio 4 last night, and he was saying he doesn't like Wagner because Hitler and the Nazis liked his music. Lawson is entitled to his view, but if we are going to check all our fellow enthusiasts' credentials before deciding whether to indulge our favourite sport or music or any other pastime, then we'll soon feel very lonely.

 

And we would actually be handing a great deal of power to these people we don't like, Nick Griffin et al.

 

If Marion Le Pen, who I'd never heard of before seeing this thread, wants to persuade French TV channels to broadcast World Cup games, I hope she succeeds. And, as far as I'm concerned, she can even turn up to cheer on the French team without asking for permission from me or anyone else on this forum.

 

Yes all of this I agree with, I too thought that Mark Lawson's comments were a little strange.  If Wagner was good enough for Endeavour Morse then why not Lawson?



#46 ChrisGS

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:00 PM

You'd welcome the far left then?

 


What's not to welcome about the far left?



#47 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:05 PM


What's not to welcome about the far left?

Can you get 90,000 of them to fill Wembley for the World Cup semi-finals?



#48 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:09 PM

I don't mind Marion Le Pen watching RL games. When you look at where FN support is concentrated, it's fair to guess she won't be the pnly person affiliated with the party who supports RL.

However, I most certainly don't want her to piggyback on the game to curry favour, nor do I want her as a mouthpiece for the game's rights. That will offend far more people than it attracts.

If she reads this forum I'm sure she'll take note, and I'm sure she will try very hard not to offend you.



#49 Johnoco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:11 PM

If it was Ernest Mosley, rather than Oswald, then they probably picked the right guy to bodyguard.

It may taint rugby union in your mind, and in mine, but the majority of people either within or without rugby union are probably blissfully unaware of this historical titbit.

I doubt whether any of our rugby union contributors on this forum would feel tainted by it. And why should they?

So what if they are blissfully unaware? Its still true. And its not that obscure either, ever heard the quote about how you set back British fascism by a generation? And I wasn't suggesting any current RU fans should feel guilty, merely pointing out the mud sticks angle.

Tell you what Martyn, next time you are at a function with some of RL's black players, suggest to them it is fair game to tolerate anyone as long as they are RL fans. And do you think politicians would do anything to promote anything if they didn't see a benefit for them?

Sorry but being a vaguely decent human being comes first to me, RL fan second.

#50 dhw

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:25 PM


What's not to welcome about the far left?

Extreme left wing regimes have been responsible for the the largest scale mass murder known to man.

They often have a disregard for human rights and generally are intolerant.

They tend to lean towards to totalitarianism in a very extreme manner.



#51 JohnM

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:29 PM

So what if they are blissfully unaware? Its still true. And its not that obscure either, ever heard the quote about how you set back British fascism by a generation? And I wasn't suggesting any current RU fans should feel guilty, merely pointing out the mud sticks angle.

Tell you what Martyn, next time you are at a function with some of RL's black players, suggest to them it is fair game to tolerate anyone as long as they are RL fans. And do you think politicians would do anything to promote anything if they didn't see a benefit for them?

Sorry but being a vaguely decent human being comes first to me, RL fan second.

 

So what ARE this woman's views on racism, anti-sematism  etc?   as a  vaguely decent human being what is your practice when it comes to say, Chinese goods?



#52 JohnM

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:33 PM

I wouldn't have thought that calling for the World Cup to be shown on French television is embarrassing our sport, unless there's something I'm missing.

 

Part of growing up is that you realise that some people you may dislike will share some of your enthusiasms, while some people you would otherwise get on with have no truck with your hobbies and pastimes.

 

For example, I was listening to Mark Lawson's Front Row programme on Radio 4 last night, and he was saying he doesn't like Wagner because Hitler and the Nazis liked his music. Lawson is entitled to his view, but if we are going to check all our fellow enthusiasts' credentials before deciding whether to indulge our favourite sport or music or any other pastime, then we'll soon feel very lonely.

 

And we would actually be handing a great deal of power to these people we don't like, Nick Griffin et al.

 

If Marion Le Pen, who I'd never heard of before seeing this thread, wants to persuade French TV channels to broadcast World Cup games, I hope she succeeds. And, as far as I'm concerned, she can even turn up to cheer on the French team without asking for permission from me or anyone else on this forum.

 

wow!  I've never had that much stamina!!

 

Another taboo that continues to be maintained in Israel is the performance of Wagner’s works in Israel. To this I must say that the rumor that my performance with the Staatskapelle Berlin of the Prelude and Love Death of Tristan und Isolde in 2001 caused a sensation is a myth that has been anchored in people’s heads until now, nearly ten years later. The piece was played as an encore following a forty-minute discussion with the audience. I suggested to the people who wanted to leave that they do so. Only twenty to thirty people who did not want to hear Wagner’s music left the hall. The remainder applauded the orchestra so enthusiastically that I had the feeling we had done something positive. Only the next day did the dispute erupt when politicians called the performance a scandal, although they had not been present themselves.

 

Daniel Barenboim See http://www.danielbar...lestinians.html



#53 keighley

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:40 PM

Extreme left wing regimes have been responsible for the the largest scale mass murder known to man.

They often have a disregard for human rights and generally are intolerant.

They tend to lean towards to totalitarianism in a very extreme manner.

 

Indeed, as have far right wing extremes. From Ghengis Khan to the third reich and the fascist crew under General Pinochet who overthrew Allende in Chile. They had a different use for football stadia.

 

In the context of this thread, is it not being alleged that the Le penn followers are very far right and would maybe tolerate such abuses if they thought they could get power and put them into practice. ? As such they are not poster pin ups to be promoting out game given that so many of our supporters and players are either minorities or to the left of the political spectrum.

 

Still, banning extremists leads to worse excess as perpetrated by Senator Mcarthy in the USA and the infamous ' Unamerican activities" black lists.

 

My bet would be to live and let live and if the preponderance to RL supporters are at odds with her views, she will quietly fade from the scene.



#54 Johnoco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:50 PM

So what ARE this woman's views on racism, anti-sematism  etc?   as a  vaguely decent human being what is your practice when it comes to say, Chinese goods?

I don't know what her views are on the aforementioned subject, I know jack about her. This is why I haven't used her in my posts, except to ask if she was like the NF of old here. Why are you bringing other moral issues into it? I aren't trying to say that everyone should have the same views, nor would I want that, I'm saying that RL should be very wary of associating itself with people who hold racist or far right views whatever the perceived short term gain might appear. If you are trying to suggest that I am a bad person because I might buy Chinese goods, that's a different thing from being openly racist or fascist. I aren't trying to suggest I'm perfect but I believe there is a line that you must start from. And disliking people based on skin colour or nationality or whatever is that line IMO.

If Nick Griffin gave the RFL £5M to sponsor SL, would he then be welcome at the Grand Final? Not in my book, he's not welcome. Yet Martyn seems to suggest we should just shrug and say 'hey, no biggie it's your opinion bro'. I disagree. And I disagree because I know that the far right are trouble, from experience.

#55 Johnoco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 01:52 PM

My bet would be to live and let live and if the preponderance to RL supporters are at odds with her views, she will quietly fade from the scene.

That's ok then. And if RL's reputation is trashed in the meantime, is that ok too?

#56 keighley

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:01 PM

That's ok then. And if RL's reputation is trashed in the meantime, is that ok too?

 

No it's not OK but it might be the best solution to let her quietly fade away. To mkae a big deal about it, to alert the sensationalist press and get them in on the act is exactly what extremists want. The oxygen of publicity is what they crave in order to get a forum to propagate their views.

 

Don't pour petrol on an open flame. Smother it and let it die.



#57 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:12 PM



If Nick Griffin gave the RFL £5M to sponsor SL, would he then be welcome at the Grand Final? Not in my book, he's not welcome. Yet Martyn seems to suggest we should just shrug and say 'hey, no biggie it's your opinion bro'. I disagree. And I disagree because I know that the far right are trouble, from experience.

John, if you're going to cite me in support of your argument, try to do it accurately.

 

Of course I wouldn't be happy to see Nick Griffin sponsoring Super League, no matter how much money he offered.

 

On the other hand, if Griffin were quoted in one of tomorrow's newspapers claiming that Rugby League is his favourite sport, I wouldn't shut down League Express and this website and go and live in a monastery regretting that I was ever involved with Rugby League.

 

Marion Le Pen's actions are closer to the latter than the former, so I feel very relaxed about what she has said, and, if she can persuade French TV companies to broadcast the World Cup, all the better.



#58 Johnoco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:13 PM

No it's not OK but it might be the best solution to let her quietly fade away. To mkae a big deal about it, to alert the sensationalist press and get them in on the act is exactly what extremists want. The oxygen of publicity is what they crave in order to get a forum to propagate their views.
 
Don't pour petrol on an open flame. Smother it and let it die.

Far better to not allow some muppet with petrol and matches in your house to start with.

#59 Johnoco

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:17 PM

Martyn.

One of my favourite bands is Stiff Little Fingers. Nick Griffin once stated that his favourite bands were 'The Clash' and 'SLF'. Both very strongly anti racist bands. Whenever I have seen SLF play, they publicly declare that he is not welcome and dedicate one of their songs 'Fly the Flag' to him. They don't not play gigs but they ensure everyone knows their position on the matter.

And I still wouldn't be comfortable with him even saying he liked RL.

#60 Martyn Sadler

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:23 PM

Martyn.

One of my favourite bands is Stiff Little Fingers. Nick Griffin once stated that his favourite bands were 'The Clash' and 'SLF'. Both very strongly anti racist bands. Whenever I have seen SLF play, they publicly declare that he is not welcome and dedicate one of their songs 'Fly the Flag' to him. They don't not play gigs but they ensure everyone knows their position on the matter.

And I still wouldn't be comfortable with him even saying he liked RL.

And by doing that they emphasise his importance.

 

No one is asking you to be comfortable. I'm simply suggesting that you shouldn't feel uncomfortable.






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