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#61 PhillH

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alright I'm sorry.
I apologise profusely to everyone for waking the Krakken. I thought he'd gone!

I'm also sorry to you Phillh as you were probably enjoying your week and you had put the memory of deserting your club behind you and concentrated on your recollections of Miss Barton!

Unfortunately during this time you have not thought of anything new to say. It's all the same. We need a new ground. WE KNOW. Not gonna get one if we don't have a club though are we. D/R isn't the best option for clubs. WE KNOW. One the gate money we were getting BEFORE we entered into partnership with Warrington we were never going to afford a fantastic squad. That's why players left for more money. Hunts let fans have stated publicly that they would accept ANY help from Leeds to survive. They use what they need. Do you know what players Leeds offer. NO! The club have not spoken out over these issues. WOAH! I AGREE. But then again, I haven't bought a programme for years. Have you even read one recently to find out?

I actually agree with some of the things you say Phillh, Im sure some other do too, but I don't agree with the fact that you profess to KNOW everything rather than the fact you are surmising, guessing or opinionating like most everyone else on here. You seem to just have the same issues time and again. As I've said before, you talk like a true politician, never answering a direct question but rather pose a different question to deflect the fact you neither know the answer or be caught up and express an opinion which can be referred to later.

The difference between you and most of the other people on here is that you are not a fighter mate. Yes you've stuck around for a number of years, like the rest of us, but you haven't got the stomach to stay in the fight till the bitter end if it comes to it if it isn't going your way.

I will watch the last Swinton match my friend, be it the clubs or mine. I won't turn turtle. Never!

 

Struggling to understand how backing submission to a Super League club, to the extent that Swinton Lions is being openly referred to as being their "A team / second team / feeder team" can in any way be equated to "being a fighter".

 

What are the things that ought to be fought against?

 

Personally I would start with Salford City Council and the need for both a new ground and partnerships off-the-field in terms of community work. What are the specific barriers to progress?  We aren't being told and supporters are being deliberately kept out of the loop -  so, there's no scope to join any fight on that topic at the moment.

 

Perhaps throw in a fight against non-RL factors - such as the domination of football.

 

And crucialy I believe the RFL should be on the hit list too, in terms of its over indulgence of Super League clubs and at times over fixation with geographical expansion at the expense of the semi pro game especially in the traditional heartlands.  Lack of promotion and relegation to and from Super League, the undermining of ambition for those outside Super League being key issues.

 

However, by sacrificing itself as far as possible on the alter of Partnering, and kowtowing to Warrington, what the current management at Swinton Lions has done is actually roll over to exactly what the short sighted RFL and self interested Super League clubs have wanted!  Where would the Championship end up if every club within it had behaved in the same manner as Swinton Lions this season? Nothing more than a reserve league!

 

If they were looking to fight, the stance would've been along the lines of:

 

 "Partnering???  No thanks!  If SL clubs want to scrap the Under 23s for their own cost cutting purposes, let it be them rather than Championship clubs pay the proper price: Release this generation of young players and we'll take them on, but on our own terms.  Then if any prove to be late developers and show ability to cut it in SL and you want them back, you'll have to fork out a transfer fee!"

 

As it is, Swinton Lions has done more than any other club outside Super League to help those in the top tier to have their cake and eat it!  No fighting spirit there, just blatant moral-less opportunism! 


Edited by PhillH, 21 May 2013 - 11:03 AM.

Rugby League - great game, shame about the administration.

#62 marshy1

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

Struggling to understand how backing submission to a Super League club, to the extent that Swinton Lions is being openly referred to as being their "A team / second team / feeder team" can in any way be equated to "being a fighter".

 

What are the things that ought to be fought against?

 

Personally I would start with Salford City Council and the need for both a new ground and partnerships off-the-field in terms of community work. What are the specific barriers to progress?  We aren't being told and supporters are being deliberately kept out of the loop -  so, there's no scope to join any fight on that topic at the moment.

 

Perhaps throw in a fight against non-RL factors - such as the domination of football.

 

And crucialy I believe the RFL should be on the hit list too, in terms of its over indulgence of Super League clubs and at times over fixation with geographical expansion at the expense of the semi pro game especially in the traditional heartlands.  Lack of promotion and relegation to and from Super League, the undermining of ambition for those outside Super League being key issues.

 

However, by sacrificing itself as far as possible on the alter of Partnering, and kowtowing to Warrington, what the current management at Swinton Lions has done is actually roll over to exactly what the short sighted RFL and self interested Super League clubs have wanted!  Where would the Championship end up if every club within it had behaved in the same manner as Swinton Lions this season? Nothing more than a reserve league!

 

If they were looking to fight, the stance would've been along the lines of:

 

 "Partnering???  No thanks!  If SL clubs want to scrap the Under 23s for their own cost cutting purposes, let it be them rather than Championship clubs pay the proper price: Release this generation of young players and we'll take them on, but on our own terms.  Then if any prove to be late developers and show ability to cut it in SL and you want them back, you'll have to fork out a transfer fee!"

 

As it is, Swinton Lions has done more than any other club outside Super League to help those in the top tier to have their cake and eat it!  No fighting spirit there, just blatant moral-less opportunism! 

I for once find my self agreeing with part of your post there Phil H, particularly the comments about allowing the players to leave the SL clubs and sign for Championship clubs with a view to a transfer fee if they are required back.

However If I was an agent for a young player and was advising him I would firstly tell him to only sign a twelve month deal and secondly much as is the case now have a get out clause built in in the event a SL club comes knocking.

 

As sad as it is the RL care only about SL and the top five or six teams at that. Therefore it leaves the lower clubs scrapping over players and results in the taking of loan from other clubs who can afford large squads or in the case this year the D/R system and as you will have seen yesterday your new love Leigh have signed D/R since they now have as little cash as Swinton and can't afford to recruit.

 

It is a sad reflection on the decision makers at RL headquarters and one which in my opinion they knew would have to be adopted by Championship clubs since in reality we all know that in the lower leagues money isn't awash.

 

Continued criticism of the Swinton board is fine unless you know that they had the finances to take a different stance, the probability is they don't and until either a very generous fan chucks a wad of cash or another backer comes in then you cut your cloth accordingly. Those who have chose to stay away will no doubt have done so for their own reasons but in doing so they are assisting in possibly sending the Lions back to Championship 1 or even worse.



#63 greengrass

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 01:48 PM

Glenngary - we are entitled to our opinions and yes this is the final time I am saying it.  As for almighty mouth greengrass, you wanna watch your mouth and the way you toalk to people because you could end up in trouble cause of it. 

 

I could not give a ###### how long you have been supporting them, I am stopping watching them because I have had a enough.  I am not the only one, I know at least 20 people who have stopped going because of the current regime.


Edited by greengrass, 21 May 2013 - 01:53 PM.


#64 juliancaine

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 03:06 PM

Utterly and totally agree on this critical point. Roll on the return home, it can't come soon enough

 

:onthequiet:

 

I agree with you both totally, but it isn't going to happen unless new backers/owners are found as it is plainly obvious the current regime can't even fund a full first team squad and have to rely on warrington wolves for players etc let alone a new ground. If there was even a remote chance of a ground in m27 where are the plans/outline planning permissions , I guess they are non existant  otherwise we would surely have seen them by now???. :sclerosis:


Edited by juliancaine, 21 May 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#65 mark richardson

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 04:39 PM

More unpleasant exchanges.
Lets put our money where are mouths are and do a fan buy out?

#66 duffymoon

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

Yes very sad to see all the unpleasantness! Hopefully some positive news on Agecroft will go some way to healing the rift between us all.

#67 mark richardson

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

The rift is only an attitude difference in my opinion
We all want the same thing...its what we do in the meantime and how we treat the club or even more simply speak about the club that is creating conflict.

#68 Blue Monkey

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:30 PM

As sad as it is the RL care only about SL and the top five or six teams at that. Therefore it leaves the lower clubs scrapping over players and results in the taking of loan from other clubs who can afford large squads or in the case this year the D/R system and as you will have seen yesterday your new love Leigh have signed D/R since they now have as little cash as Swinton and can't afford to recruit.

 

It is a sad reflection on the decision makers at RL headquarters and one which in my opinion they knew would have to be adopted by Championship clubs since in reality we all know that in the lower leagues money isn't awash.

 

Our 'betters', the RFL, the ones who run (down) our once glorious sport. See below the 'Gang of Five' who rule the roost at RFL HQ. (Taken from Wikipedia)

 

 

The RFL board consists of the following

 

These current rulers of our sport certainly don't look like the types of folk who once managed our game do they?



#69 mark richardson

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:43 PM

Why not?

#70 steve wild

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:06 PM

I'm sure John Kidd himself would acknowledge that mistakes have been made along the way, but one fact remains and that is I don't see anyone else queuing up to take the club on. John and Paul Kidd are both on record as admitting that the long term future of the club stands and falls on the delivery of a new stadium. So i have no doubt that John is working tirelessly towards that end, although maybe regular updates would be welcome. I believe they deserve our support at this critical time.

And given the potential restructuring of the game as reported, it's imperative that we stay in this division. If that means taking advantage of current nonsense DR regulations then so be it. None of us like it and the RFL will have to look at it again if only because under the proposed restructuring you might have dual-registered clubs playing in the same division! But in the meantime...

So support the team and the club is my view. What's the alternative? Walk away? Believe me I've thought about it but how can I when it's in the blood?

#71 marshy1

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:45 PM

I'm sure John Kidd himself would acknowledge that mistakes have been made along the way, but one fact remains and that is I don't see anyone else queuing up to take the club on. John and Paul Kidd are both on record as admitting that the long term future of the club stands and falls on the delivery of a new stadium. So i have no doubt that John is working tirelessly towards that end, although maybe regular updates would be welcome. I believe they deserve our support at this critical time.

And given the potential restructuring of the game as reported, it's imperative that we stay in this division. If that means taking advantage of current nonsense DR regulations then so be it. None of us like it and the RFL will have to look at it again if only because under the proposed restructuring you might have dual-registered clubs playing in the same division! But in the meantime...

So support the team and the club is my view. What's the alternative? Walk away? Believe me I've thought about it but how can I when it's in the blood?

Exactly right Steve.