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Sinfield's form in last few games


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293 replies to this topic

#161 Larry the Leit

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:17 AM

Yes, the reason we haven't been able to beat Australia consistently for the last 30 odd years is simply down having Kevin Sinfield at stand off.

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, you appear to be arguing that it's his inclusion in the Leeds squad that's led to their success but that his inclusion in the England/GB setup had not contributed to their failure to beat Australia.


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#162 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

Whilst I agree with your sentiment, you appear to be arguing that it's his inclusion in the Leeds squad that's led to their success but that his inclusion in the England/GB setup had not contributed to their failure to beat Australia.


He's only captained England and played the same role he does for Leeds in one tournament, and one which they won (although I agree that's not saying much when looking at the competition) my point being, people are quick to dismiss Sinfield as a failure because of his or rather England's previous record yet strangely none of the other players seem to get the same treatment. England have failed previously for a whole host of reasons the main one being Australia are a far far better team I'm afraid, But I thin McNamara is doing the right thing in trying to build a club team like environment and he has chosen to do this around Sinfield as captain presumingly hoping to replicate the same success that Leeds have, this means having a core set of players who know how each other play and re comfortable playing along side each other, just putting the supposed 'best' player in each position won't always achieve this neither will chopping and changing half back combinations all the time just because the current 6 has few off games in that season.

#163 Larry the Leit

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

christopher is Sinfield's mum.  I'm convinced.


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#164 Ant

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:04 PM

Picking Sinfield isn't why we have struggled to beat Aus - but his selection is symptomatic of why we have struggled

Time and time again players have been picked because of their club and their status, rather than being the best player in the position they play

Oh and all the players I mentioned would be better at 6 that Kevin "god like" Sinfield

#165 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

christopher is Sinfield's mum. I'm convinced.


And I'm convinced he must have killed yours an Ants pets or something ;-)

#166 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:17 PM

Picking Sinfield isn't why we have struggled to beat Aus - but his selection is symptomatic of why we have struggled

Time and time again players have been picked because of their club and their status, rather than being the best player in the position they play

Oh and all the players I mentioned would be better at 6 that Kevin "god like" Sinfield


Neither smith or Brough were better last year when they were given a chance against the Exiles, they failed ,unlike Sinfield in the first game.

Just saying like.

#167 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

In fact out of the last 10 games Sinfield has been selected, England has lost 3, 2 against Aus and once against the Exiles.

70% win ratio not bad for a failure ;-)

#168 OMEGA

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:54 PM

He's only captained England and played the same role he does for Leeds in one tournament, and one which they won (although I agree that's not saying much when looking at the competition) my point being, people are quick to dismiss Sinfield as a failure because of his or rather England's previous record yet strangely none of the other players seem to get the same treatment. England have failed previously for a whole host of reasons the main one being Australia are a far far better team I'm afraid, But I thin McNamara is doing the right thing in trying to build a club team like environment and he has chosen to do this around Sinfield as captain presumingly hoping to replicate the same success that Leeds have, this means having a core set of players who know how each other play and re comfortable playing along side each other, just putting the supposed 'best' player in each position won't always achieve this neither will chopping and changing half back combinations all the time just because the current 6 has few off games in that season.


No ones dismissing Sinfield because England have lost when he's played, well I'm not anyway, for 30+ internationals his performances have been well below what's required and for that reason I'm saying he's not good enough, has had all the chances any player could ever expect and should not now be considered just because he's stupidly been named Captain.

#169 OMEGA

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 12:56 PM

In fact out of the last 10 games Sinfield has been selected, England has lost 3, 2 against Aus and once against the Exiles.
70% win ratio not bad for a failure ;-)


Who were the wins against?

What's his international career win %?

#170 The Big Gun

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:02 PM

Who were the wins against?

What's his international career win %?

At least 4 were Wales or France.

#171 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:11 PM

Who were the wins against?

What's his international career win %?


It would be interesting to see but his % wins would be high I suspect, out of these 30+ games people keep saying he's failed in the last 10 England have won 7, I suspect all people really mean is he's failed in games against Australia In which case they would be correct, and correct about most, if not all of the current England squad.

People can't have it both ways by saying he's failed in 30+ England games when the reality is quite different

#172 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:18 PM

At least 4 were Wales or France.


So do we take any games that wernt against NZ or Aus it of the equation when discussing Sinfields international career? If so he hasn't had 30+ chances to perform has he.

#173 The Big Gun

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

So do we take any games that wernt against NZ or Aus it of the equation when discussing Sinfields international career? If so he hasn't had 30+ chances to perform has he.

I was just answering Omega's question.

I do suspect that England would've likely won these 4 games regardless of who was playing at 6 though, so I'm not sure your stat really proves much.

#174 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 01:30 PM

I was just answering Omega's question.

I do suspect that England would've likely won these 4 games regardless of who was playing at 6 though, so I'm not sure your stat really proves much.


I actually agree but as I say if we are discounting games like that people can't use the 30+ chances line can they.

#175 RSN

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:06 PM

It would be interesting to see but his % wins would be high I suspect, out of these 30+ games people keep saying he's failed in the last 10 England have won 7, I suspect all people really mean is he's failed in games against Australia In which case they would be correct, and correct about most, if not all of the current England squad.

People can't have it both ways by saying he's failed in 30+ England games when the reality is quite different


Stop saying most of the England squad have failed against Aus because they haven't. The only people who looked out of place when we played Aus in the 2011 4N were Chase, Yeaman and Sinfield.

#176 Larry the Leit

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:12 PM

Stop saying most of the England squad have failed against Aus because they haven't. The only people who looked out of place when we played Aus in the 2011 4N were Chase, Yeaman and Sinfield.

Oh you've done it now.

 

His recent form has been dreadful, let's see how he plays on Sunday, or let's not if McDermott drops him.


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#177 The Big Gun

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:18 PM

Oh you've done it now.
 
His recent form has been dreadful, let's see how he plays on Sunday, or let's not if McDermott drops him.

Sinfield would have to play terribly for at least the entirety of this season before Leeds would even consider dropping him, but to be fair he has led them to quite a lot of success in recent seasons so that's reasonable enough. England is a different matter.

#178 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:19 PM

Stop saying most of the England squad have failed against Aus because they haven't. The only people who looked out of place when we played Aus in the 2011 4N were Chase, Yeaman and Sinfield.


Yet strangely he got MOM in the win against NZ just like he did in the win against NZ in the previous 4 nations he was picked for (he was injured in 2010 when England were absolutely dreadful) and again getting MOM in one of last years internationals (but I now know those dont count in his tally of course)

Fine I get it you don't rate Sinfield that is of course your perogative but don't make things up to try and prove your opinion as fact.

#179 christopher

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

Sinfield would have to play terribly for at least the entirety of this season before Leeds would even consider dropping him, but to be fair he has led them to quite a lot of success in recent seasons so that's reasonable enough. England is a different matter.


England haven't lost a game with Sinfield as captain, although I suspect that will change come WC time.

#180 Larry the Leit

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

Yet strangely he got MOM in the win against NZ just like he did in the win against NZ in the previous 4 nations he was picked for (he was injured in 2010 when England were absolutely dreadful) and again getting MOM in one of last years internationals (but I now know those dont count in his tally of course)

Fine I get it you don't rate Sinfield that is of course your perogative but don't make things up to try and prove your opinion as fact.

 

JJB got the MOM award on Monday in the Leeds vs Saints game.  He was worse than Sinfield.


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