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London Machete Attack


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#41 ChrisGS

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:03 PM

Not necessarily.  I would imagine a lot will depend on what intelligence the relevant services are able to obtain about who is looking suspicious.  Since 7/7 we have learned about one or two significant terrorist attacks that have been rumbled, for example the one involving liquids on planes.  They're the big stuff but they still require planning, obtaining weapons, scoping locations, etc, just as a small attack would. 

 

Whether the perps had English accents or not, one of them appeared to identify with somewhere else, if the quote on the BBC website is anything to go by:

 

The ITV film shows a black man, dressed in a grey hooded jacket, saying: "We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." He added: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you."

 

Islamist terrorism is just as bad as IRA terrorism or any other excuse for terrorism and the perpetrators should be treated in exactly the same way as any other involved in terrorism.  I grew up with the fear of IRA terrorism and so I am not remotely sympathetic to terrorists or their cause and don't really care what other people think of that.

 


I'm not sure it would take just as much planning though. If you believe in that sort of radical Islamic teaching, wholly, there is no planning involved in picking up a weapon, taking to the streets and murdering people. There is in most cases and that's why people are caught, because you get multiple guys with grand plans, but there doesn't need to be.

 

I know you could plan it, and this seems to be planned to an extent (soldier, and the fact the terrorists were content to leave everybody else at the scene unharmed), but it doesn't necessarily have to be. Nutters do it all the time, whether it's running about with a knife in Japan stabbing innocent people, or shooting up schools in America. If you had the motivations and were crazy in the head then it's a matter of picking up a large knife from the kitchen and going out on a rampage, or going out in your car and running someone down.

 

There's probably a tendency to think they're being rumbled because of great intelligence and that's something I've always argued against; it's always been my feeling that terrorist attacks are an absolute rarity because terrorists are an absolute rarity.



#42 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:05 PM

We bring them to justice using laws and courts.  Like we should with every 'wrong doer' regardless of race and religion.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#43 ChrisGS

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

How do we bring them to justice?
Its all the bleeding hearts, the likes of you lot on here that have progressively caused it! Anybody that speaks a bit of sense is called a racist and bigot with no evidence whatsoever! All responses are twisted in a mindless schoolboy way! The mods then delete posts and ban/suspend the alleged offender! Anybody who doesn't agree with homosexual marriage is branded a homophobe! Anybody who criticises the rfl is censored! I have not once mentioned the colour of a mans skin, yet I am a racist! Nay, I am the voice of reason and indeed the voice of the SILENT majority. Islam, I REPEAT ISLAM( couldn't give a ###### what colour) has no place in British Culture! It is an evil medieval religion! It persecutes its own women and treats them as chatels! If they want to practice their barbaric medieval religion they should be shipped to some adobe compound where that culture actually has a meaning! Ban me! Please I'm sick of even replying to some of the imbeciles on here!!!! I won't be logging on again! You make me vomit!
Look forward to your juvenile responses!

 

This is an internet message board. You can't shout at and intimidate people like you do at your local boozer lol. Turn your caps locks off and head on over to Stormfront or something, man.



#44 ChrisGS

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

We bring them to justice using laws and courts.  Like we should with every 'wrong doer' regardless of race and religion.

 

Not forgetting that having them alive could provide intelligence of some kind, you never know



#45 Phil

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:09 PM

We bring them to justice using laws and courts.  Like we should with every 'wrong doer' regardless of race and religion.

 

 

which is what makes us better than them


"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

#46 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:10 PM


I'm not sure it would take just as much planning though. If you believe in that sort of radical Islamic teaching, wholly, there is no planning involved in picking up a weapon, taking to the streets and murdering people. There is in most cases and that's why people are caught, because you get multiple guys with grand plans, but there doesn't need to be.

 

I know you could plan it, and this seems to be planned to an extent (soldier, and the fact the terrorists were content to leave everybody else at the scene unharmed), but it doesn't necessarily have to be. Nutters do it all the time, whether it's running about with a knife in Japan stabbing innocent people, or shooting up schools in America. If you had the motivations and were crazy in the head then it's a matter of picking up a large knife from the kitchen and going out on a rampage, or going out in your car and running someone down.

 

There's probably a tendency to think they're being rumbled because of great intelligence and that's something I've always argued against; it's always been my feeling that terrorist attacks are an absolute rarity because terrorists are an absolute rarity.

They ran the man down first, before attacking him.

 

COBRA have now met and security is to be tightened around barracks in London.

 

The Muslim Council of Britain has condemned the attack and said such attacks have no place in Islam.

 

All the indicators appear to be that it was a terrorist attack.  If it was a terrorist attack it is likely that it was planned.  They don't tend to be spontaneous. 

 

Terrorists are not a rarity IMO and nor are acts of terrorism.



#47 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:15 PM

 I REPEAT ISLAM( couldn't give a ###### what colour) has no place in British Culture! It is an evil medieval religion! It persecutes its own women and treats them as chatels! If they want to practice their barbaric medieval religion they should be shipped to some adobe compound where that culture actually has a meaning!

Islam isn't an evil medieval religion but it is a religion that appears to have got stuck in a bit of a time warp in some respects, looking a lot like Christianity did a few centuries ago. 



#48 ChrisGS

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:17 PM

They ran the man down first, before attacking him.

 

COBRA have now met and security is to be tightened around barracks in London.

 

The Muslim Council of Britain has condemned the attack and said such attacks have no place in Islam.

 

All the indicators appear to be that it was a terrorist attack.  If it was a terrorist attack it is likely that it was planned.  They don't tend to be spontaneous. 

 

Terrorists are not a rarity IMO and nor are acts of terrorism.

 

Well, it's all relative. My point was that there are means of terrorism/murder that are unlikely to see you caught. I could plan to go out next Wednesday and try to kill some people with a knife and nobody would be able to anticipate that, and so could a Muslim terrorist. That we don't see it often is because these terrorists barely exist imo, it's not because of the super-duper British police/intelligence.



#49 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:21 PM

which is what makes us better than them

 

Its the only way.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#50 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

Well, it's all relative. My point was that there are means of terrorism/murder that are unlikely to see you caught. I could plan to go out next Wednesday and try to kill some people with a knife and nobody would be able to anticipate that, and so could a Muslim terrorist. That we don't see it often is because these terrorists barely exist imo, it's not because of the super-duper British police/intelligence.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on your point.



#51 ckn

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

How do we bring them to justice?
Its all the bleeding hearts, the likes of you lot on here that have progressively caused it! Anybody that speaks a bit of sense is called a racist and bigot with no evidence whatsoever! All responses are twisted in a mindless schoolboy way! The mods then delete posts and ban/suspend the alleged offender! Anybody who doesn't agree with homosexual marriage is branded a homophobe! Anybody who criticises the rfl is censored! I have not once mentioned the colour of a mans skin, yet I am a racist! Nay, I am the voice of reason and indeed the voice of the SILENT majority. Islam, I REPEAT ISLAM( couldn't give a ###### what colour) has no place in British Culture! It is an evil medieval religion! It persecutes its own women and treats them as chatels! If they want to practice their barbaric medieval religion they should be shipped to some adobe compound where that culture actually has a meaning! Ban me! Please I'm sick of even replying to some of the imbeciles on here!!!! I won't be logging on again! You make me vomit!
Look forward to your juvenile responses!

Bye then.  Here's the link to the Army recruitment site where you can do your part.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#52 GeordieSaint

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:30 PM

How do you know the faction is small? I would suggest that you don't know that it is. It could simply be that our security services have been doing a very fine job at infiltrating groups and controlling them.


I would suggest that the police and our intelligence services know who the vast majority of these people are: martyrs, recruiters, financiers etc. There are not battalions of jihadists 'sleeping' in our towns and cities waiting to butcher us. It is a small minority and most are watched and eventually arrested. We have foiled many more terror plots in this country than is reported in the press, including like the one carried out today. The threat is real, the threat is hostile but the threat will continue to be hunted and brought to justice through the rule of law.

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#53 ckn

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:34 PM

Back to the serious stuff then.  A lot of these people want to be caught so that they can get more and more publicity for their cause, think of Anders Breivik in Norway who wanted his day in court to rant.  The clip of the murderer talking about his crime should never have been shown on TV as it may incite even more, that was a disgraceful failing on behalf of the TV companies.


Edit: the newspapers have joined in with posting the pics.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#54 Bedford Roughyed

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:36 PM

Back to the serious stuff then.  A lot of these people want to be caught so that they can get more and more publicity for their cause, think of Anders Breivik in Norway who wanted his day in court to rant.  The clip of the murderer talking about his crime should never have been shown on TV as it may incite even more, that was a disgraceful failing on behalf of the TV companies.

 

But at same time people like one shot will say we are being censored from the truth.


With the best, thats a good bit of PR, though I would say the Bedford team, theres, like, you know, 13 blokes who can get together at the weekend to have a game together, which doesnt point to expansion of the game. Point, yeah go on!

#55 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:38 PM

I would suggest that the police and our intelligence services know who the vast majority of these people are: martyrs, recruiters, financiers etc. There are not battalions of jihadists 'sleeping' in our towns and cities waiting to butcher us. It is a small minority and most are watched and eventually arrested. We have foiled many more terror plots in this country than is reported in the press, including like the one carried out today. The threat is real, the threat is hostile but the threat will continue to be hunted and brought to justice through the rule of law.

Oh, I can certainly believe we have foiled a lot more terror plots in this country than are reported in the press.  I have no issue with that.  However, unless you are in the security/intelligence services yourself, I cannot see how anyone can state with certainty that they are only small in number.  With our involvement in the middle east, real and perceived, I would imagine we are frontline stuff in the Islamist cause (and note, I use the term 'Islamist' as it was originally coined: to describe Islamic terrorists, as opposed to non-terrorist believers in Islam who are Muslims).



#56 GeordieSaint

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:39 PM

How do we bring them to justice?
Its all the bleeding hearts, the likes of you lot on here that have progressively caused it! Anybody that speaks a bit of sense is called a racist and bigot with no evidence whatsoever!


If they can be arrested, justice should come through the law. If they can't be arrested, justice should come through two in the chest and a double tap to the head.

I don't know you so wouldn't call you a racist or bigot. I would however, say you were ill-informed.

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#57 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:41 PM

Back to the serious stuff then.  A lot of these people want to be caught so that they can get more and more publicity for their cause, think of Anders Breivik in Norway who wanted his day in court to rant.  The clip of the murderer talking about his crime should never have been shown on TV as it may incite even more, that was a disgraceful failing on behalf of the TV companies.


Edit: the newspapers have joined in with posting the pics.

Since when has the media been responsible in these matters, to be fair?  I'd suggest not for a very long time (probably not since the second world war and then I'm sure there was some legislation back then to ensure they were responsible!).  Maggie Thatcher tried to silence the IRA sympathiser voices on TV back in the day in an attempt to stop oxygen being pumped into their cause but all the media did was use actors with Irish accents reading a script so it was a pointless exercise.



#58 GeordieSaint

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:42 PM

Bye then. Here's the link to the Army recruitment site where you can do your part.


Come on mate, the job is already hard enough!!

Edited by GeordieSaint, 22 May 2013 - 07:46 PM.

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#59 ckn

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:42 PM

Since when has the media been responsible in these matters, to be fair?  I'd suggest not for a very long time (probably not since the second world war and then I'm sure there was some legislation back then to ensure they were responsible!).  Maggie Thatcher tried to silence the IRA sympathiser voices on TV back in the day in an attempt to stop oxygen being pumped into their cause but all the media did was use actors with Irish accents reading a script so it was a pointless exercise.

Very true.  Unfortunately.


Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#60 Saintslass

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 07:45 PM

If they can be arrested, justice should come through the law. If they can't be arrested, justice should come through two in the chest and a double tap to the head.

.

It looks like these two today didn't fancy the lawful route given that they were shot!  They must have posed an immediate threat to others for the police to take that action I should think, bearing in mind the wrongful death of the ? Argentian man in the immediate aftermath of 7/7.






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