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Is anyone in favour of a national stadium for rugby league?


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#41 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

You'd be hard pressed to find more than a few people who do know that.  As far as most people are concerned, it's a football stadium that's grudgingly opened up to other activities.

 

A separate national stadium for RL would either be a massive white elephant of a stadium that's little more than a money drain or an inadequate venue that's little, if any, better than what we have now in the club grounds.  Surely it would have to be the ground for finals as well as internationals therefore would need to take 30k as an absolute, scraped minimum and realistically 40k to make it a viable option, then you have to consider it's fitness for other sports, concerts, etc. to lease.  It's worth remembering that unless the stadium at least pays for itself then funding for it needs to come from somewhere.  A good comparison would be the Welsh RU who still painfully struggle to keep up with the bills on their massive stadium despite filling it at least 3-4 times a year with RU internationals with the inevitable knock-on effects on sport-wide funding.

 

Then there's location.  It really has to be up north somewhere, putting it near London does two things: first makes it difficult for the bulk of RL people to get to and makes the land prices, planning and build costs idiotically high.  There's no point having a national stadium for a sport if its location gives people another excuse to not attend international games.

 

I'm strongly in favour of keeping leasing big grounds with the occasional trip to Wembley.  We need to be realistic in that we can't afford to build and own a big, top-end stadium, we get the benefits of that by leasing a ground with none of the pitfalls of having to actually own one.

 

But, again, the issue is more - what exactly are we tied into with Wembley and what does it cost?  It is our stadium even if no one knows that.

 

If we have to put two games there each year, which is my memory of the arrangement, then it makes a national stadium along anything other than Jonty's award-winning suggestion a bit pointless.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#42 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

More than happy with Wembley (the agreement's for one game a year) and Old Trafford.



#43 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

More than happy with Wembley (the agreement's for one game a year) and Old Trafford.

 

Many thanks.


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- Severus, July 2012

#44 Jonty

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

Seem to think that the agreement at Wembley is for one flagship game per year (unspecified which) that is also a Club Wembley event, but the agreement may or may not have been renegotiated since for all we know - bear in mind it was probably pre-Richard Lewis and a very different RFL that was involved.

 

Internationals and other flagship events don't really need a national stadium. Go down the cricket route and put these out to tender. We've seen how successful this can be with the buy in from local authorities that the RLWC 2013 has had. You then can ultimately work towards a situation where much of the operational costs of test matches etc. have been covered before a ball has been passed via local authority investment. You then also have the local mailing and marketing clout of the authority to promote the event and get bums on seats.


Edited by Jonty, 30 May 2013 - 09:51 AM.

disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#45 Viking Warrior

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

The RFL own Odsal so why not? The Challenge Cup and the Grand Final and big yorkshire derbies could be played there eve Magic Weekend.

Leeds would be the best place for the stadium, the largest rugby league city in the uk. Seems as there is no major stadium in yorkshire im sure revenue would come in for rock concerts and other sports.

yorkshire SL clubs can't even get their own grounds up to standard so why have a national RL stadium in that god forsaken county???
"Why is Napoleon crying ?" said one sailor to the other, "poor ###### thinks he's being exiled to st helens" came the reply.



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#46 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

Seem to think that the agreement at Wembley is for one flagship game per year (unspecified which) that is also a Club Wembley event, but the agreement may or may not have been renegotiated since for all we know - bear in mind it was probably pre-Richard Lewis and a very different RFL that was involved.

 

Internationals and other flagship events don't really need a national stadium. Go down the cricket route and put these out to tender. We've seen how successful this can be with the buy in from local authorities that the RLWC 2013 has had. You then can ultimately work towards a situation where much of the operational costs of test matches etc. have been covered before a ball has been passed via local authority investment. You then also have the local mailing and marketing clout of the authority to promote the event and get bums on seats.

I've just been reading a Club Wembley brochure.  The flagship game is given as "the Rugby League Cup Final".


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#47 hindle xiii

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

yorkshire SL clubs can't even get their own grounds up to standard so why have a national RL stadium in that god forsaken county???

Just to ###### you off. :biggrin:


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#48 nadera78

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:01 AM

Jonty has it spot on with his suggestion for a National Rugby League Centre.

 

IIRC there was a similar plan for Red Hall but it wasn't big enough, hence the football (not RL) pitches on the land out the back. No idea how much you'd get for selling that site but it would go some way towards Jonty's masterplan. Throw in some Lottery funding (every other sport seems to have a publicly-funded high performance centre of some sort) and we're getting there.


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#49 GeordieSaint

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:03 AM

Internationals and other flagship events don't really need a national stadium. Go down the cricket route and put these out to tender. We've seen how successful this can be with the buy in from local authorities that the RLWC 2013 has had. You then can ultimately work towards a situation where much of the operational costs of test matches etc. have been covered before a ball has been passed via local authority investment. You then also have the local mailing and marketing clout of the authority to promote the event and get bums on seats.

 

You are on fire this morning!!


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#50 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:04 AM

Jonty has it spot on with his suggestion for a National Rugby League Centre.

 

It is a good idea.

 

Being rugby league people in [insert place] will immediate ##### about its location because [insert place] isn't rugby league enough and the RFL are only doing to ensure [insert section of the game] are bribed into agreeing with them all the time.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#51 Larry the Leit

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:05 AM

Jonty has it spot on with his suggestion for a National Rugby League Centre.

 

IIRC there was a similar plan for Red Hall but it wasn't big enough, hence the football (not RL) pitches on the land out the back. No idea how much you'd get for selling that site but it would go some way towards Jonty's masterplan. Throw in some Lottery funding (every other sport seems to have a publicly-funded high performance centre of some sort) and we're getting there.

 

I don't think it's owned by the RFL, but that they have it on a cheap rental from Leeds council.


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#52 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Seem to think that the agreement at Wembley is for one flagship game per year (unspecified which) that is also a Club Wembley event, but the agreement may or may not have been renegotiated since for all we know - bear in mind it was probably pre-Richard Lewis and a very different RFL that was involved.

 

Internationals and other flagship events don't really need a national stadium. Go down the cricket route and put these out to tender. We've seen how successful this can be with the buy in from local authorities that the RLWC 2013 has had. You then can ultimately work towards a situation where much of the operational costs of test matches etc. have been covered before a ball has been passed via local authority investment. You then also have the local mailing and marketing clout of the authority to promote the event and get bums on seats.

Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
- Severus, July 2012

#53 Griff

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:16 AM

We could have as many events as we could muster. The point is that money would be staying in the game as opposed to going to soccer clubs.

Does anyone have a rough idea of the money spent hiring other sports stadia every season?

A lot less than the cost of building and running a huge Wembley of the North.

The money wouldn't be staying in the game at all. It's be going to banks, councils, electric companies, builders etc etc.

Think of it this way - if you needed a van to move some stuff three or four days a year, would you buy one or hire one ?

Edited by Griff, 30 May 2013 - 10:17 AM.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

#54 nadera78

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:18 AM

Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?

I don't know about the Champions Trophy, but some counties have had problems with the tendering of Test matches. It's turned into something of a bun fight and on several occasions, having been awarded a game, counties have then handed it back once they realise they can't make the sums work.

 

In RL terms I think it could work. Having Hull, WIgan, Leeds, Huddersfield, etc fighting it out for games is certainly conceivable. You could also imagine municipal-owned stadia in other areas looking for a piece of it. I'm thinking of Coventry for starters.


"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."
Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

#55 Larry the Leit

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:22 AM

I don't know about the Champions Trophy, but some counties have had problems with the tendering of Test matches. It's turned into something of a bun fight and on several occasions, having been awarded a game, counties have then handed it back once they realise they can't make the sums work.

 

Yep, Headingley won't have done too well out of their test match this year through no fault of their own.


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#56 hindle xiii

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

I just remembered, there were plans announced sometime last year for a centre of excellence to be built in Bradford, on the site of the old Wyke school.

 

Link

 

While obviously not a stadium, it's a step forward.


On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#57 gingerjon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:24 AM

Yep, Headingley won't have done too well out of their test match this year through no fault of their own.

 

They're covered by insurance for any payouts because of rain.  The price they bid meant that they had to charge a minimum of £40 per ticket though.  They lost out on the next two Ashes tours though because they didn't bid enough.


Cheer up, RL is actually rather good
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#58 Larry the Leit

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:27 AM

They're covered by insurance for any payouts because of rain.  The price they bid meant that they had to charge a minimum of £40 per ticket though.  They lost out on the next two Ashes tours though because they didn't bid enough.

 

Fair enough.  The final day's crowd was probably lower than a Leeds Tykes game.


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#59 Jonty

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?

Not sure about the Champions Trophy, but the tendering process operates for full Test matches, albeit with a medium/long-term contract with the venue, hence why YCCC needed investment in Headingley a few years back so the ground could bid.

 

I think the scale of a Four Nations event could be attractive, especially if the RFL still look at venues in the 25,000-40,000 range - cities big enough to have large unitary authorities and a regional profile, but small enough to be interested in an international event that has a knock on impact on the local economy. The challenge would be having the long-term planning for internationals, and all to often these appear to be back-of-the-fag packet affairs with the venue publicised months - or even weeks - beforehand. There'd need to be a two-three year lead in time as a minimum.

 

Imagine the RFL had this offer for 2016:

 

Four Nations tournament:

 

Grade one fixtures: England v Australia; England v New Zealand; England v AN Other; Final

Grade two fixtures:Australia v New Zealand (AN Other team fixtures dependent on the fourth nation)

 

Set minimum standards; launch a bid document off the back of the 2013 world cup. You'll get the usual suspects apply in the heartlands, but not necessarily a bad thing - make them earn the fixture.

 

Look for local investment in provision of facilities, community staff/programme leading up to and supporting the event legacy, match with RFL Whole Sport Plan funding

 

Unfortunately having the RLIF set out a fixtures schedule as far ahead as 2016 is as mad as an alien space bat.


disques vogue

The club where Eurovision isn't a dirty word. A waltz through the leopard skin lined world of Tom Jones, Bert Kampfert and Burt Bacharach. Step out to the sound of the happy hammond and swing to the seductive sounds of the samba.

DJ's, raffles, cocktails and wide collars. Please dress smart. Gentlemen might like to wear a suit.

Same price. Same music. Same rubbish prizes.

#60 OMEGA

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:44 AM

Sorry there is only one true rugby league city and thats Cod Head land. 
 
The rest of us are simply large towns with a RL majority. Small cities with a RL majority or Large cities with a large RL supporting base/team. 


Wakefield is a larger city than Hull, it's solely Rugby League, is the biggest city in the UK without football league representation, has 5 pro Rugby League clubs either within its Borough or under its WF postcode (Wakefield, Castleford, Featherstone, Dewsbury & Batley).

Wakefield pretty much much sits dead centre of the UK almost equidistant from East & West coastlines as well as North & South, it's the perfect Rugby League City for a National Stadium.