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Badger Cull starts on Saturday


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#21 JohnM

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 02:11 PM

I've never seen a live one. I saw a dead one by the side of the road in Lincolnshire and another near my daughter's in Wiltshire.  Is it only badgers who carry TB?  I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in the eating - if TB in cattle falls in the trial areas then they'll go ahead with a full scale cull.  But given this government's fast and loose attittude to statistics, and the minister being well known as one of the right wing (swivel eyed?) loonies in the cabinet, will we be able to believe the "proof?"  I reckon badgers are in for a rough time.   

Could the fox hounds be taught to chase badgers perhaps - kill two birds with one stone? ;)

 

plenty of dead badgers here in Lincs. they seem to be suicidal, hurling themselves in front of cars and trucks at night. There are clearly issues with the effectiveness of culling, hence the pilot schemes - which themselves have issues. Nevertheless , the evidence from Ireland points to probable success, as has already been pointed out. There is no right answer, not until an effective vaccine comes along.



#22 Wolford6

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 02:49 PM

It's easy to vaccinate a farm animal; they stand and accept it.

 

It will be the very devil to catch and inoculate wild badgers.


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#23 tonyXIII

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

It's easy to vaccinate a farm animal; they stand and accept it.

 

It will be the very devil to catch and inoculate wild badgers.

 

I thought the vaccine under development for badgers was for oral ingestion and they would use bait laced with said vaccine to carry out the inoculation.


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#24 ckn

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 03:41 PM

Badgers? We don't need no steenking badgers!

Arguing with the forum trolls is like playing chess with a pigeon.  No matter how good you are, the bird will **** on the board and strut around like it won anyway


#25 Severus

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

I agree with Wolford that unless you have a good knowledge of rural affairs then its not good enough to be against the cull on the basis that they are perceived to be cute (which they are not) and fury. I'm undecided on whether the cull is a good idea and whether it will solve the TB problem. There is evidence on both sides of the argument to support their respective claims.


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#26 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:14 PM

I say cull any living creature who lives north of the watford gap:)))))

CM

Is that you giving away UKIP's electoral strategy?
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#27 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

I agree with Wolford that unless you have a good knowledge of rural affairs then its not good enough to be against the cull on the basis that they are perceived to be cute (which they are not) and fury. I'm undecided on whether the cull is a good idea and whether it will solve the TB problem. There is evidence on both sides of the argument to support their respective claims.

 

So if you do have a good knowledge of rural affairs then you can be against the cull on the basis they are cute?  ;)

 

Seriously, any decision to cull should be made on the basis of science. Around these parts, and in the absence of any natural predators, deer are regularly culled in substantial numbers. Granted the proposal for dealing with badgers is for different reasons - the health of agricultural livestock rather than the overall health of the targeted species - but such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 


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#28 Wolford6

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:43 PM

such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 

 

I could do with a shaving brush.


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#29 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:49 PM

I could do with a shaving brush.

 

I agree!


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#30 Trojan

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:14 PM

How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.


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#31 Wolford6

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:27 PM

How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

 

Damn things like nothing better than picking off a tired racing pigeon.

 

They even attack small dogs.

 

http://www.telegraph...an-toy-dog.html

 

The cull can't come quick enough for me.


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#32 JohnM

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:07 PM

How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

Not quite the same thing, unless  they are proven to be swooping down on cattle and spreading bovine TB, I guess.  

 

and then this: http://news.bbc.co.u...lth/6547973.stm  Bovine TB 'can spread in humans'



#33 longboard

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:35 PM

How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

Kites lived in town and city centres in the past in this country. They are scavengers and they are very easy to kill, as they fly slowly. They were eradicated from most of Britain in the past, presumably because they were seen as pests.



#34 longboard

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 08:45 PM

So if you do have a good knowledge of rural affairs then you can be against the cull on the basis they are cute?  ;)

 

Seriously, any decision to cull should be made on the basis of science. Around these parts, and in the absence of any natural predators, deer are regularly culled in substantial numbers. Granted the proposal for dealing with badgers is for different reasons - the health of agricultural livestock rather than the overall health of the targeted species - but such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 

 

Deer are being culled in quite a lot of the country currently, particularly species such as muntjac. Most of this, outside of Scotland, is done on the quiet. It is estimated, but hard to prove, that there are more deer in this country now, than at any time since the middle ages.

 

BTW, many deer carry TB.



#35 longboard

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 09:05 PM

Most of the scientists that are reported to have researched this, question the efficacy of culling, owing to factors, such as the movement of animals into the territories in which the creatures have been culled. Most recommend vaccination and great care with the movement of cattle, which is seen as a significant factor in the spread of infection. Some farmers regard being very careful about cattle feed being accessible to any other creatures as important in reducing the risk of TB. Other factors such as getting rid of hedgerows and walls, and creating large fields have helped the spread of TB  in herds.

 

AAT Many cats have the bovine form of TB.



#36 JohnM

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

Most of the scientists that are reported to have researched this, question the efficacy of culling, owing to factors, such as the movement of animals into the territories in which the creatures have been culled. Most recommend vaccination and great care with the movement of cattle, which is seen as a significant factor in the spread of infection. Some farmers regard being very careful about cattle feed being accessible to any other creatures as important in reducing the risk of TB. Other factors such as getting rid of hedgerows and walls, and creating large fields have helped the spread of TB  in herds.

 

AAT Many cats have the bovine form of TB.

 

are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle



#37 Methven Hornet

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 09:59 PM

Deer are being culled in quite a lot of the country currently, particularly species such as muntjac. Most of this, outside of Scotland, is done on the quiet. It is estimated, but hard to prove, that there are more deer in this country now, than at any time since the middle ages.

 

BTW, many deer carry TB.

 

I can believe that, they seem to be everywhere!


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#38 Severus

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:05 PM

Why don't we see venison more readily available in butchers/supermarkets? I know it's fairly easy to get venison but not to the extent of beef, pork etc.
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#39 Trojan

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:08 PM

are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle

 

Certainly when I was a kid the silver top milk used to say "tuberculin tested" on the silver foil.


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#40 longboard

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 10:51 PM

are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle

 

No, I have never had a Dr Wakefield moment. Yes, I am sure and it has been the subject of academic reports for many years. The reports don't make for light reading though.

 

Needless to say this is not a simple matter. There are other criticisms of culls, including the fact that they are very expensive for the benefit obtained and they don't deal with other factors in the case of TB, such as poor farming and animal transport practices.

 

If you spend a bit of time researching the incidence and nature  of illness and infection in farm animals you may well come across information that surprises you, or maybe turns your stomach, depending on your sensitivities, eg concerning the amount of pus in milk............ Enjoy, as they say these days.... :ph34r:






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