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Leigh Centurions

New management structure & TV

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249 replies to this topic

#181 Robin Evans

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:34 PM

No!
Hope that helps! :lol:

Edited by Robin Evans, 13 June 2013 - 07:34 PM.

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#182 Padge

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 08:39 PM

Come on Robin, he was asked to put up and gave us the figures.

So can you give us Featherstones budget figures for Superleague?

Hang on he put income, he didn't have any expenditure against it.

 

Going off that sort of accounting me you could survive on a crowd of 1,000 and three adult dogs.



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#183 The Parksider

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:05 PM

Hang on he put income, he didn't have any expenditure against it.
 
Going off that sort of accounting me you could survive on a crowd of 1,000 and three adult dogs.

Well I'm only going on CKN's view that you need £3.2M to just scrape by on the bottom rung of Superleague.

Yes it's an optimsitic view that Leigh could get those sort of sponsorship and commercial figures and scrape it.

Wether they did or didn't they may well have enough money to pay for a team of sorts (skint SL clubs like Wakefield and Crusaders have scraped together SL sides at the last minute) and they may scrape a couple of wins and get crowds of around 5,000.But they'd probably come last

They've done it before, they could do it again!!!

Survive and prosper is of course another issue altogether. Without the other money for the marketing department, the medical department and the player development department you allude to, it could be tricky in year two and the crowds would probably drop alarmingly too, but hey.....

Edited by The Parksider, 13 June 2013 - 09:10 PM.


#184 Padge

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:15 PM

Well I'm only going on CKN's view that you need £3.2M to just scrape by on the bottom rung of Superleague.

Yes it's an optimsitic view that Leigh could get those sort of sponsorship and commercial figures and scrape it.

Wether they did or didn't they may well have enough money to pay for a team of sorts (skint SL clubs like Wakefield and Crusaders have scraped together SL sides at the last minute) and they may scrape a couple of wins and get crowds of around 5,000.But they'd probably come last

They've done it before, they could do it again!!!

Survive and prosper is of course another issue altogether. Without the other money for the marketing department, the medical department and the player development department you allude to, it could be tricky in year two and the crowds would probably drop alarmingly too, but hey.....

He isn't saying, put together a scratch side, he is saying a full cap team, that means competing with Leeds, Wigan, Huddersfield, Saints for players that can compete at the highest level. The alternative is paying full cap wages to rubbing rags, getting battered every week and then...



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#185 JohnM

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:42 PM

...hopelessly optimistic gate revenue projections...based on what? It's just plain wrong to build up the hopes of loyal and hardworking fans without substantiation.

Just to be clear, it would be great to see a well supported strong Leigh in Superleague for the long term. Kidding the fans is not the way to do it.

#186 JohnM

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 09:46 PM

...hopelessly optimistic gate revenue projections...based on what? It's just plain wrong to build up the hopes of loyal and hardworking fans without substantiation.

Just to be clear, it would be great to see a well supported strong Leigh in Superleague for the long term. Kidding the fans is not the way to do it.

#187 The Parksider

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

He isn't saying, put together a scratch side, he is saying a full cap team, that means competing with Leeds, Wigan, Huddersfield, Saints for players that can compete at the highest level. The alternative is paying full cap wages to rubbing rags, getting battered every week and then...

I know he's saying they can find full cap, but I think he's saying it in the context of assuming Leigh will prosper and survive if they do.

But I agree with you if there's no money for Medical facilities, player development facilities and marketing that will put the club at a massive disadvantage.

Craiq also assumes that full cap means a good team, but we already have some SL clubs "paying near full cap for rubbing rags getting battered every week". I don't know if Widnes paid full cap last year but I do know they could have done and if they didn't it was because the players weren't there to buy.

The assumption is there'll be the players to spend it on and there won't.

All getting a bit fantasy especially Leigh getting a licence when the clubs crowds are a thousand short of requirements, but at least Craiqs fantasy is for his club and not the fantastic fantasy that Rugby League is now growing from the roots up, and the future is rosy for everyone, not just Leigh (wink).

#188 sweaty craiq

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:33 AM

I know he's saying they can find full cap, but I think he's saying it in the context of assuming Leigh will prosper and survive if they do.

But I agree with you if there's no money for Medical facilities, player development facilities and marketing that will put the club at a massive disadvantage.

Craiq also assumes that full cap means a good team, but we already have some SL clubs "paying near full cap for rubbing rags getting battered every week". I don't know if Widnes paid full cap last year but I do know they could have done and if they didn't it was because the players weren't there to buy.

The assumption is there'll be the players to spend it on and there won't.

All getting a bit fantasy especially Leigh getting a licence when the clubs crowds are a thousand short of requirements, but at least Craiqs fantasy is for his club and not the fantastic fantasy that Rugby League is now growing from the roots up, and the future is rosy for everyone, not just Leigh (wink).

 

Thank you for telling me what I meant :sarcastic:



#189 The Parksider

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:45 AM

Thank you for telling me what I meant :sarcastic:

It's a pleasure Craiq.

I have to try to keep people in the real world because there's a crisis in the game I think??

I may be wrong though because apparently London Skolars have a plan to be in Superleague very soon.

I like a fantasy now and again.

I'll go for Gateshead in Superleague 2018.

You heard it here first.

#190 keighley

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

It's a pleasure Craiq.

I have to try to keep people in the real world because there's a crisis in the game I think??

I may be wrong though because apparently London Skolars have a plan to be in Superleague very soon.

I like a fantasy now and again.

I'll go for Gateshead in Superleague 2018.

You heard it here first.

 

Skolars might not make SL but they might get promoted to the Championships and have a big London derby against the relegated Broncos. I guess you think that's a fantasy too.



#191 The Parksider

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

Skolars might not make SL

They very well may not.

#192 Steve Slater

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

It's a pleasure Craiq.

I have to try to keep people in the real world because there's a crisis in the game I think??

I may be wrong though because apparently London Skolars have a plan to be in Superleague very soon.

I like a fantasy now and again.

I'll go for Gateshead in Superleague 2018.

You heard it here first.

How about Sheffield in Super League? Now there's a cracking little club in a big city that's just outside the heartlands. Trouble is, they can match Leigh and Fev on the field, but not at the turnstiles. So if you can't bring fans in to watch a great team in a big city like Sheffield, how can you talk of expansion? Hold on to what we've got and let clubs on the up progress, rather than creating failure in far flung areas that simply won't work.

 

If you don't want to do it through P&R, how about grouping Leigh with local SL clubs that simply make the numbers up, such as Salford & Widnes? Do the same with Fev, Cas & Wakey, and give each club 4 years out of 6 in Super League, whereby each has to take its turn for 2 consecutive years in the Championship. You could do the same with other teams that fail to make the play-offs on a regular basis as long as there were enough worthy clubs to take their place on a 4 year tenancy.

 

Another way to do it would be to have P&R on a league table basis, whereby taxable gate receipts (so they cannot be massaged) also count as points, along with other revenue streams, profit & loss etc. On-field performance should have the greatest bearing, but there is no reason why these other factors can't play a small part in P&R. 



#193 Larry the Leit

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:10 AM


Another way to do it would be to have P&R on a league table basis, whereby taxable gate receipts (so they cannot be massaged) also count as points, along with other revenue streams, profit & loss etc. On-field performance should have the greatest bearing, but there is no reason why these other factors can't play a small part in P&R.


Tax is paid on profit not income isn't it?
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#194 Larry the Leit

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:10 AM


Another way to do it would be to have P&R on a league table basis, whereby taxable gate receipts (so they cannot be massaged) also count as points, along with other revenue streams, profit & loss etc. On-field performance should have the greatest bearing, but there is no reason why these other factors can't play a small part in P&R.


Tax is paid on profit not income isn't it?
The Unicorn is not a Goose,

#195 The Parksider

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 07:57 AM

How about Sheffield in Super League? Now there's a cracking little club in a big city that's just outside the heartlands. Trouble is, they can match Leigh on the field, but not at the turnstiles. So if you can't bring fans in to watch a great team in a big city like Sheffield, how can you talk of expansion? Hold on to what we've got and let clubs on the up progress, rather than creating failure in far flung areas that simply won't work.

It's not a case of won’t work. It’s a case of hasn’t worked.

Sheffield started in 1984 and of course there were no pro players in Sheffield.

It will be their 30th. Anniversary next year and in that time they have got their crowds up from 900 to 1,000 but they still don’t produce the players.

Leigh won the semi professional RL Championship in 1982 watched by 6,000 crowds. Today the “ageing” crowds have shrunk to 1500.

Every other year Leigh produce a professional quality player from the area and the big guns take them away to play pro at places like Wigan or Warrington.

Neither club is anywhere near being a true professional club, these clubs – few and far between – turn over around £6,000,000 a year.

Leigh and Sheffield can't manage £1,000,000 and have no credible plans to get to even that.

#196 The Parksider

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:05 AM

How about grouping Fev, Cas and Wakey who simply make the numbers up.

Sorry for the edit but forget mergers of any sort whether they would work or not is a 300+ post thread that always ends totally inconclusive.

There's as many top class professionals produced in the area as are produced by Leeds and Wigan.

Last year 17,000 paying fans watched second rate stuff.

The area has the resource to be bigger than Leeds or Wigan.

But all the three clubs do is struggle and go bust, they've done nothing in 17 years of Superleague and this is a tragedy. One club only in SL in a modern stadia is the only possible answer.

Will it work?? How the Hull would I know but I do know what's not working, what's gone bust, what's going bust and who's going nowhere......

#197 l'angelo mysterioso

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 08:38 AM

How about Sheffield in Super League? Now there's a cracking little club in a big city that's just outside the heartlands. Trouble is, they can match Leigh and Fev on the field, but not at the turnstiles. So if you can't bring fans in to watch a great team in a big city like Sheffield, how can you talk of expansion? Hold on to what we've got and let clubs on the up progress, rather than creating failure in far flung areas that simply won't work.

If you don't want to do it through P&R, how about grouping Leigh with local SL clubs that simply make the numbers up, such as Salford & Widnes? Do the same with Fev, Cas & Wakey, and give each club 4 years out of 6 in Super League, whereby each has to take its turn for 2 consecutive years in the Championship. You could do the same with other teams that fail to make the play-offs on a regular basis as long as there were enough worthy clubs to take their place on a 4 year tenancy.

Another way to do it would be to have P&R on a league table basis, whereby taxable gate receipts (so they cannot be massaged) also count as points, along with other revenue streams, profit & loss etc. On-field performance should have the greatest bearing, but there is no reason why these other factors can't play a small part in P&R.


How would your club be affected by these proposals?
WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015
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#198 keighley

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 12:17 AM

It's not a case of won’t work. It’s a case of hasn’t worked.

Sheffield started in 1984 and of course there were no pro players in Sheffield.

It will be their 30th. Anniversary next year and in that time they have got their crowds up from 900 to 1,000 but they still don’t produce the players.

Leigh won the semi professional RL Championship in 1982 watched by 6,000 crowds. Today the “ageing” crowds have shrunk to 1500.

Every other year Leigh produce a professional quality player from the area and the big guns take them away to play pro at places like Wigan or Warrington.

Neither club is anywhere near being a true professional club, these clubs – few and far between – turn over around £6,000,000 a year.

Leigh and Sheffield can't manage £1,000,000 and have no credible plans to get to even that.

 

Sheffield started in Division two and worked their way up th promotion ladder to the first division, now SL and stayed there. They famously won the challenge cup beating the mighty Wigan.

 

They drew at least three 9 to 10,000 crowds to Sheffield to watch Rl an they averaged around 4,000, a crowd London, Crusaders mark 1, and Salford would be happy with.

 

Like a myriad of RL teams, Wigan, leeds and Bradford come to mind, they got into financial difficulties and their ownership thought that the panacea would be to take the million pounds on offer for mergers and entered into the infamous Shuddersfield venture. this seems to have mostly benefitted the Giants and Sheffield

ceased to exist.

 

Mark Aston refused to let RL in the city die and reformed a team. They were scandalously almost refused membership of the League but prevailed and started the season with scarcely any players and ni money.

 

Since then they have once again worked their way up the promotion ladder to the point where they are the defending Champions of the Championship, are the the Northern Rail semi finals and have a home game against the woeful Broncos to get to the challenge cup semi final.

 

They trade at a profit. Theirr crowds are a sore point. There is the prospect of a purpose built 10,000 capacity ground for their use being built at the Don Valley Stadium site.

 

To me it seems RL in Sheffield has been a success twice. I think you should be lauding the progress of RL in Sheffield not running it down

 

Are the Eagles capable of being a SL club? Who knows but compared with at least one of the current SL incumbents, they would seem to be a better prospect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 


 


 

 

 

 

 



 



#199 Steve Slater

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:20 AM

My club, Featherstone, would regenerate the local area by these proposals. If they were to replace one of their neighbours and the unfortunate ones sank to the depths Rovers did a few years ago the area wouldn't benefit, but all 3 of them up there with 2 places shared on a rotational basis would help restore the area to the greatest nursery of talent in the game. Don't tell me about Zak Hardacre & Rob Burrow, the local area around Featherstone is producing nowhere near the quantity and quality of talent that we saw before the turn of the century. That was down to local rivalry more than anything else,without it the banter in schools switches to soccer.



#200 Steve Slater

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 07:28 AM

Tax is paid on profit not income isn't it?

Not VAT! If you only took attendance as a measure this would be open to underhand methods, but no-one is going to qoute a made up attendance if they have to pay VAT on it! Also, if they are getting in cheap it may be good for the game, but a club can't use that to say how well they're doing if it's forcing them into financial difficulties, like what happened with Bradford.






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