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Leigh East


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#1 amh

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:44 AM

please read 

http://www.leigheast...-statement.html


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#2 jaguar

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:17 PM

Dreadful position to be in. Fight with everything you can!

#3 ROOSTER1980

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 09:27 PM

Awful! There must be someone on the Council who can help you. A local Councillor should help! Try everyone!! When you think of the money that Councils waste on all sorts of things - they should bend over backwards for voluntary organisations that give so much to their communities.

#4 Scrumhalf7

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:22 PM

There must be a reason why the council are taking this approach as the political risk / fall out is massive on such an emotive issue - Leigh does need two strong amateur teams but what is the full story also was the originally agreed lease deal something that Leigh East went into willingly if so what has gone wrong and why???

I wouldn't want to see Leigh East disappear but a balanced view would assist in gaining the full support of those that don't 'support' East in normal circumstances - it reads like the council are acting maliciously and without any good reason - is that the actual case?

It's a bad situation that does need resolving but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'.....apologies I couldn't resist...

If provided the whole story and full facts regardless of what has occurred I would personally put all my support into keeping TWO strong amateur RL teams in Leigh....

If anyone knows then pls post....

#5 Marauder

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

To me it's obvious why.

 

This government are making cuts from all corners including local councils, this in return has got local councils cutting grass cutting down to once every three weeks in places, reducing the size of the crews who pick up litter and also raising the cost for sports clubs to play on their fields, the Leigh East situation is just a simple and straight forward easy money to be made by the council.

 

 

There must be a reason why the council are taking this approach as the political risk / fall out is massive on such an emotive issue - Leigh does need two strong amateur teams but what is the full story also was the originally agreed lease deal something that Leigh East went into willingly if so what has gone wrong and why???

I wouldn't want to see Leigh East disappear but a balanced view would assist in gaining the full support of those that don't 'support' East in normal circumstances - it reads like the council are acting maliciously and without any good reason - is that the actual case?

It's a bad situation that does need resolving but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'.....apologies I couldn't resist...

If provided the whole story and full facts regardless of what has occurred I would personally put all my support into keeping TWO strong amateur RL teams in Leigh....

If anyone knows then pls post....


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#6 kaykie

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:23 AM

There must be a reason why the council are taking this approach as the political risk / fall out is massive on such an emotive issue - Leigh does need two strong amateur teams but what is the full story also was the originally agreed lease deal something that Leigh East went into willingly if so what has gone wrong and why???

I wouldn't want to see Leigh East disappear but a balanced view would assist in gaining the full support of those that don't 'support' East in normal circumstances - it reads like the council are acting maliciously and without any good reason - is that the actual case?

It's a bad situation that does need resolving but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'.....apologies I couldn't resist...

If provided the whole story and full facts regardless of what has occurred I would personally put all my support into keeping TWO strong amateur RL teams in Leigh....

If anyone knows then pls post....

go on to leigh east forum and read the letters on the subject and u will see what the council are doing, its a disgrace and from day one the council have been moving the goal posts in trying to get east out, east moved from Grasmere st to help the lsv to go ahead and got a £810, 000 grant of sport england to build them a new club house and pitches and got alot of promises off the coucil, it was there own fault on believing what they was told and not getting something watertight on a contract but thats a council for u isn't it

Edited by kaykie, 11 June 2013 - 05:25 AM.


#7 mr chairman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:16 AM

There must be a reason why the council are taking this approach as the political risk / fall out is massive on such an emotive issue - Leigh does need two strong amateur teams but what is the full story also was the originally agreed lease deal something that Leigh East went into willingly if so what has gone wrong and why???
I wouldn't want to see Leigh East disappear but a balanced view would assist in gaining the full support of those that don't 'support' East in normal circumstances - it reads like the council are acting maliciously and without any good reason - is that the actual case?
It's a bad situation that does need resolving but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'.....apologies I couldn't resist...
If provided the whole story and full facts regardless of what has occurred I would personally put all my support into keeping TWO strong amateur RL teams in Leigh....
If anyone knows then pls post....


Scrum half 7 , been a while since I was on here but looks like I'm back and I would like to answer your post . Leigh have in full provided the full story , please visit the Leigh east forum or Leigh centurions forum . They are facts delivered by our solicitor . There is not a balanced view and the only negative post on all forums is yours . Now then your comment regarding the most successful . I agree that miners are that in the town of Leigh , but we have had our own success of which we are very proud , apologies if the original comment upset you . Leigh east have had there problems in the past brought on by themselves but to be kicked whilst down by your own council is out of order . The council leader is a member of your club is he not and also andy Burnham mp is a member of your club is he not . If this situation was the other way round Leigh east would be throwing the full weight of the club behind Leigh miners . Good luck for the season and I truly hope that not all people at miners think likewise

#8 mr chairman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:44 AM

Scrum half 7 , been a while since I was on here but looks like I'm back and I would like to answer your post . Leigh have in full provided the full story , please visit the Leigh east forum or Leigh centurions forum . They are facts delivered by our solicitor . There is not a balanced view and the only negative post on all forums is yours . Now then your comment regarding the most successful . I agree that miners are that in the town of Leigh , but we have had our own success of which we are very proud , apologies if the original comment upset you . Leigh east have had there problems in the past brought on by themselves but to be kicked whilst down by your own council is out of order . The council leader is a member of your club is he not and also andy Burnham mp is a member of your club is he not . If this situation was the other way round Leigh east would be throwing the full weight of the club behind Leigh miners . Good luck for the season and I truly hope that not all people at miners think likewise


Statement of Leigh East Amateur Rugby Club

The future of Leigh East is now in serious jeopardy, despite over five years of negotiation with Wigan Council to try to reach a satisfactory solution to enable the club to enter into a 25-year lease to secure its long-term position. The Council have informed the Club that it will take over its bar and function room at the Leigh Sports Village facility on the 8th July, which is likely to result in disastrous consequences Leigh East and its 14 teams.

Prior to the move to the Sports Village, Leigh East were approached and asked to surrender its facility at Grasmere Street on the promise of a clubhouse, an all-weather training are and grass pitches. No rent would be payable for these facilities. On this basis significant funding was obtained from Sport England and Leigh East offered its full support to the Sports Village project.

By the time the Club moved from its old ground at Grasmere Street in October 2007, there had already been a number of difficult discussions with the council and Leigh East was placed in a position whereby they had no option but to agree to move in to the new clubhouse on the basis that they would run the facility and would pay significant sums in rent and training costs. It soon became apparent that the expectations of the Council where considerably higher than those that could be met by an amateur volunteer run club. From day one, the Club found itself on the financial back –foot with the Council making it clear that in addition to rent and pitch hire, they required significant contributions towards the maintenance of the building, which the Club simply was never going to be in a position to afford. Within a few months of moving in to the club, the Council indicated that it was wished to take over control of the bar but we compromised by surrendering control of the bulk of the building, including the changing rooms. Leigh East were left with the function room and bar only.

From the outset, the Council have indicated that they wanted the club to hand over the function room and the bar to them and Leigh East has fought against this since they took occupation. There are many practical difficulties associated with their not having control of the function room and bar facility which anyone associated with amateur rugby will understand, but the financial implications are nothing short of disastrous.

Despite difficult trading years, the bar at Leigh East has held its own and has managed to meet all its training costs save for in one particularly difficult year when our training costs were excessive due to the transition to summer rugby and subscriptions from our members had to be increased to meet the additional pitch hire costs. The Council argue that the bar does not make significant profits, and have continually argued that bar prices should increase to match those charged at the Sports Village. They dismiss the argument that charging excessive prices for drinks is counter-productive and refuse to provide any evidence, supported by its own accounts from its own function room at LSV, to show how inflated prices could increase profitability.

The Council does not wish to share with Leigh East, how it feels it can generate greater returns for the benefit of the ratepayer, should Leigh East no longer occupy the clubhouse.

Leigh East currently pays rent to the Council for the use of its bar facility in the sum of £19,920 per year, but the Council argues that this rent should be on a commercial basis and the Club should be paying almost £60,000 annually. They seem not to accept that lottery funding was granted to assist in the building of the facility, to assist a community club, and not so that the Council could draw in a commercial rent.

The cost to the Club in hiring pitches, necessary to support 14 teams including open age, women’s and children’s teams, last year totalled almost £21,500. When you add in the rental payment, Leigh East contributed £41,000 last year to Wigan Council; a significant sum of money and probably considerably more than is paid out by any other amateur rugby club for use of facilities and pitch hire. Wigan Council have since the outset offered, by way of subsidy, free pitch hire to the value of £21,000 per year. The true cost of the training costs attributable Leigh East are therefore £42,000. The Council have agreed to support subsidised training costs for another three years, provided that the club ‘co-operates’ with them, but will not commit to their position beyond that time. The removal of that subsidy will bring about the end of the club, as without the opportunity to raise additional revenue from the bar, there is no prospect of £42,000 being raised from rugby income.

What the Council fail to take into account is that the loss of the bar revenue, whilst resulting in Leigh East not having to pay the rent, places impossible demands on the income which can be raised just from rugby. All costs of training will have to be met from subscriptions, gate receipts, sponsorship and fund raising. These costs will prove unsustainable in the very short term. There are a number of costs which have been identified purely as a result of the loss of the bar, which of themselves will place an impossible burden upon the Club. These matters have been put to the Council, but they are unreceptive, and seem to take the view that as the facilities are great, the members should pay for them, but subscription levels have already been increased and there is limit as to how much they can be raised in the future. The philosophy at Leigh East has always been to encourage and develop rugby league within our town at a cost that is realistic, bearing in mind the affordability for the residents. It has never been the Club’s vision that they have a wonderful facility that no one can afford to be a member of. There is no place for such financial elitism within rugby league.

The Council’s position is that they are spending too much on subsidising the Club in difficult times. They quote the free pitch hire, the commercial rents and the running costs associated with the building, which the Club has tried to address by offering to pay an additional £12,000 (which result in the sacrifice valuable training time and increasing subscriptions once more) towards these costs. They state that they are subsidising us because we hire our pitch at ‘partner rates’ – a lower cost than is available to the public, and now state that an additional service charge should be met for us to contribute to the Sports Village as a whole. The simple fact is that should the Council choose to view our obligations in this way, we are doomed. The basis upon which Leigh East is expected to occupy the clubhouse is untenable and was flawed from the outset.


Throughout the Club’s tenure at the Sports Village the club, through it’s committee and solicitor, Karen Baker (who has provided her services voluntarily) have repeatedly compromised and have made proposals to try to resolve this matter in a way that can ensure the survival of the club, whilst recognising the ratepayer subsidy to the facility. The Council now tells us that it not supporting other voluntary clubs to the same extent and that it has to withdraw funding from charities and front line services. Whilst the Club understands that position, it is not thought that the destruction of one of Leigh’s two amateur rugby league teams, with the consequential impact on the community, is a decision that should be taken lightly. The Council have informed the Club that a decision has already been taken by Wigan Council’s Cabinet to implement these changes, though the minutes of that decision cannot be located on the Council’s website. This decision was not made with any prior liaison with the Club affording it no opportunity to address the Council on the implications for Leigh East.

#9 once a ref always a ref

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 08:53 AM


 but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'
 

 

 Is the number 7 on your shirt your IQ or is your name Barton?     Petty point scoring prat.


Edited by once a ref always a ref, 11 June 2013 - 08:54 AM.

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#10 Muriel

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

There must be a reason why the council are taking this approach as the political risk / fall out is massive on such an emotive issue - Leigh does need two strong amateur teams but what is the full story also was the originally agreed lease deal something that Leigh East went into willingly if so what has gone wrong and why???

I wouldn't want to see Leigh East disappear but a balanced view would assist in gaining the full support of those that don't 'support' East in normal circumstances - it reads like the council are acting maliciously and without any good reason - is that the actual case?

It's a bad situation that does need resolving but there are clear inaccuracies in the statement.... For one Leigh Miners are the most successful amateur rugby league team in Leigh nevermind 'the most successful going'.....apologies I couldn't resist...

If provided the whole story and full facts regardless of what has occurred I would personally put all my support into keeping TWO strong amateur RL teams in Leigh....

If anyone knows then pls post....

The council have acted unfairly, maliciously since day one in 2007 when the club moved ,,,,,, Leigh East was the pivotal piece in the sports village jigsaw , and the village would never have been a success unless Leigh East moved there . We find ourselves nearly 6 years on and the council have raped Leigh East of all that was promised.

Leigh East have bent over backwards to accommodate everyone at the LSV and 'Pavillion' the village people even struggle to call it Leigh East!!!!!!!!! but yet the council always seem to want more  --------- Money - Facilities - with no compromise or negotiation.

I think the word is 'BULLY'

Leigh East has never rolled over and give in and we aren't going to start now.

As much support from our fellow NCL clubs would be much appreciated,,,,,,,,,,

PS scrumhalf 7 have Leigh Miners ever won the European Championship ;)



#11 TaxiEgg

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:31 AM

Don't be distracted by Scrumhalf 7 , I cant speak for Leigh Miners officially but I am sure that as a club we are like minded people and see the injustice of what Wigan Council are trying to achieve .

And beyond all the town banter we would fully support Leigh East in its fight against the council.

 

Muriel Miners have not won the European Cup purely and simply because when the Miners won the NCL title the cup was not in existence and also the Miners have never been relegated from the top flight ,oh and why we are at it when did you last win the Ryder Cup ? :onthequiet:



#12 Muriel

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:52 AM

:D  :D  :D

 

No Tippex this year Mick for altering those cards ;)  ;) hahahah

 

I know Leigh miners support Leigh east just had to get my point across



#13 dinosore

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:59 AM

I remember my old mate John Lewis (RIP) telling me about the move when everyone was working hard to facilitate it, John told me about promises that East would receive 0.1% from the profits of any business on the complex, this i believe never happened, and in another conversation i had with John the council were trying to increase the rent etc by a massive amount, i think East successfully fought against this, and i hope they can successfully repel this latest outrage, i would like to think that all right minded people will be behind you, and help in any way possible be that signing petitions or reminding certain politicians where their votes come from.

#14 pluto

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:05 PM

Here is the linc to the Wigan council's web page with all the councillers, click on each one and their's an email address to contact them, if anyone would like to help please email the councillers with your support for the club.

 

Thanks.

 

http://democracy.wig...ndex.aspx?bcr=1

 

 

Especially Lord Peter Smith, the council leader, he originally approached Leigh East with terms that were never honoured.


Edited by pluto, 11 June 2013 - 01:07 PM.


#15 amh

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:51 PM

BBC Radio Manchester 7.50 am tomorrow


Whilst I do not suffer fools gladly, I will always gladly make fools suffer

A man is getting along on the road of wisdom when he realises that his opinion is just an opinion


#16 mr chairman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:10 PM

BBC Radio Manchester 7.50 am tomorrow



Is lord peter smith a member at miners along with andy Burnham , your call mick

#17 Wilber

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:14 PM

Just a couple of points.

We will tomorrow request to see sight of agreements BARLA made when selling the land to accommodate the Leigh Sports Village, you never know there may be something in there that can stop this from happening. im not confident but all little helps.

What we can do for sure is send an urgent email to Greg Mulholland, who is the chair person of the All parliamentary Rugby League league group, these people can write letters of support and lobby the council to at least have a stay of execution until such matters can be heard for all parties to consider.

In the mean time get Tweeting to @GregMulholland1 and @UKParliamentRL. these can throw a lot of weight behind any campaign. @Barla13 has just tweeted them

Good luck

Edited by Wilber, 11 June 2013 - 04:37 PM.


#18 TaxiEgg

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 05:11 PM

Andy Burnhams lad plays at U13s don't know if Lord Peter Smith is a member of the Miners Keith .



#19 mr chairman

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:37 PM

Andy Burnhams lad plays at U13s don't know if Lord Peter Smith is a member of the Miners Keith .


Come on mick keep up

Lord Peter Smith, who is honorary vice president of Leigh Miner Rangers, was present when the first team defeated Cumbrian side Egremont Rangers in the final of the Conference Challenge Cup at the Halliwell Jones Stadium in Warrington earlier this month. He says: “I’m delighted by the success of Leigh Miners. Winning the Conference Challenge Cup was a significant achievement for the first team. But what is particularly pleasing is that the club has been successful at every level, with different age groups, and especially the women’s side, having great seasons

#20 TaxiEgg

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:04 PM

Keith are you looking to generate support for Leigh Easts cause, or are you trying to alienate people by raising pointless questions aimed at people like myself  ?

 

You know were the association with Leigh Miners Rangers lies , I can honestly say that I did not know Lord Peter Smith was the honorary vice president , and I,m fairly confident a lot of other people don't know either.

 

Bit of advice my old mate what is needed now to fight Leigh East,s  cause is to act in a dignified and professional manner and stick to things that are relevant to the cause and not to bring personalities into the equation  you will lose support otherwise , conducting business on internet forums is not wise , East need to sit down around the table with the council and thrash out a deal and use a third party if necessary.

 

The council are saying its a cost cutting measure, well as a club you need to challenge that with cold hard facts and show them that their cost cutting measures will fold the club force some kids onto the streets and we know where that could lead , they then would lose the goodwill of the people they are supposed to represent.

 

It has been reported that the LSV is struggling well use that to back up your defence ask them to compare both the LSV and yourselves as to which costs the tax payers more ?






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